jclalor 12 #101 August 31, 2011 QuoteQuote***I just believe guns and alcohol are never a winning combination. Just like drinking and driving is a bad idea..... The difference is that to prevent drinking and driving most people don't try to ban cars. You miss the point, Cars are banned after you have been drinking. I always thought that it was common sense to never mix alcohol and guns. Are you suggesting that drinking and handling loaded firearms is alright? The NRA says you should never handle guns after drinking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #102 August 31, 2011 Quote You miss the point, Cars are banned after you have been drinking. No, driving a car is banned after drinking past a threshold level of intoxication (which for me is at least 3 rounds), and only until the liver clears it out. You can still possess a car, can still get in the car. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #103 August 31, 2011 QuoteQuote You miss the point, Cars are banned after you have been drinking. No, driving a car is banned after drinking past a threshold level of intoxication (which for me is at least 3 rounds), and only until the liver clears it out. You can still possess a car, can still get in the car. Alcohol also affects judgment. Many people start acting like assholes, or just recklessly, when they're still slightly under the legal limit to drive. So craft a guideline applicable to guns and alcohol that reasonably takes that into account. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #104 August 31, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuote You miss the point, Cars are banned after you have been drinking. No, driving a car is banned after drinking past a threshold level of intoxication (which for me is at least 3 rounds), and only until the liver clears it out. You can still possess a car, can still get in the car. Alcohol also affects judgment. Many people start acting like assholes, or just recklessly, when they're still slightly under the legal limit to drive. So craft a guideline applicable to guns and alcohol that reasonably takes that into account. I fail to see a difference between the two, particularly when the DUI related fatalities exceeds all criminal gun use. If you're already acting like an asshole or behaving recklessly, you're not competent to drive. And actually, in CA, the law is built around that premise. If you blow between .04 and .08 AND fail a field test, you're still arrested for DUI. If you test over 08, you're presumed impaired regardless, and under 04, presumed not impaired. Much earlier John asked why a glass of wine with dinner would be such a big deal - that's a < .04 situation. This is probably the sort of guideline you were looking for. In any event, Quade's statement that cars are banned is clearly false. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #105 August 31, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuote You miss the point, Cars are banned after you have been drinking. No, driving a car is banned after drinking past a threshold level of intoxication (which for me is at least 3 rounds), and only until the liver clears it out. You can still possess a car, can still get in the car. I'm still wondering if you think drinking, handling loaded weapons, and shooting are ok while drinking? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #106 August 31, 2011 QuoteAlcohol also affects judgment. Many people start acting like assholes, or just recklessly, when they're still slightly under the legal limit to drive. So craft a guideline applicable to guns and alcohol that reasonably takes that into account. Such people often don't stay just under the legal limit for driving. Then they get caught for DUI or some other offense from being reckless, which gives them a felony criminal record. And once they've got that, then they're no longer able to legally own a gun. So the law has done all it can at that point to keep drunken assholes from getting drunk and using guns. On the other hand, people who prove themselves capable of controlling their drinking, are also capable of controlling their guns. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lost_n_confuzd 0 #107 August 31, 2011 QuoteOn the other hand, people who prove themselves capable of controlling their drinking, are also capable of controlling their guns. I support being able to carry in a bar, but you have no business drinking while carrying a gun in public. Plan ahead, be responsible and leave the gun at home. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #108 August 31, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote You miss the point, Cars are banned after you have been drinking. No, driving a car is banned after drinking past a threshold level of intoxication (which for me is at least 3 rounds), and only until the liver clears it out. You can still possess a car, can still get in the car. I'm still wondering if you think drinking, handling loaded weapons, and shooting are ok while drinking? "Hold my beer and watch this...""There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #109 September 2, 2011 QuoteYou miss the point, Cars are banned after you have been drinking. No, cars are NOT banned. It is just illegal to *drive* when over a legal threshold. To be the same, you would be allowed to carry a gun in a bar but you would not be allowed to SHOOT it after you reach a certain threshold. QuoteI always thought that it was common sense to never mix alcohol and guns. Never said otherwise. QuoteAre you suggesting that drinking and handling loaded firearms is alright? Never said anything like that. I am saying that me carrying a gun in an area that other people are drinking is not a danger. Guns in bars are not dangerous anymore than cars in the bars parking lot are dangerous. DRIVING after drinking, or SHOOTING after drinking are dangerous.... But me being sober with a car, or a gun is not dangerous. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #110 September 2, 2011 QuoteAlcohol also affects judgment. Many people start acting like assholes, or just recklessly, when they're still slightly under the legal limit to drive. So craft a guideline applicable to guns and alcohol that reasonably takes that into account. Why not just use the DUI/DWI standards? For example, I DO NOT drink and drive.... Period. So why should I NOT be allowed to carry a gun in a bar if I am not drinking? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #111 September 2, 2011 QuoteQuoteAlcohol also affects judgment. Many people start acting like assholes, or just recklessly, when they're still slightly under the legal limit to drive. So craft a guideline applicable to guns and alcohol that reasonably takes that into account. Why not just use the DUI/DWI standards? For example, I DO NOT drink and drive.... Period. So why should I NOT be allowed to carry a gun in a bar if I am not drinking? Not really advocating; but see my post #41 above for some of the policy considerations to be weighed in the balance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #112 September 2, 2011 Quote So why should I NOT be allowed to carry a gun in a bar if I am not drinking? Then why are you in a bar?Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #113 September 2, 2011 Quote Then why are you in a bar? Eating, watching a game, talking to friends, trying to pick a woman.... Lots of reasons. I don't drink and drive at all... So if I am sober, why not be allowed to carry a gun in a bar? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #114 September 2, 2011 Quotebut see my post #41 above for some of the policy considerations to be weighed in the balance. But the same thing could be said of not allowing people to drive to bars... Their judgement is impaired and they are more likely to drive home when drunk if they have a car. The point being that a person who is not drinking is not more dangerous in a bar just because they have a gun. Do I support carrying a gun while drinking? No. Do I think a guy that has a glass of wine with dinner should be allowed to carry? YES. Do I think a guy that is not drinking should be allowed to carry a gun in a bar? YES. The problem is ALCOHOL, not the location. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,121 #115 September 6, 2011 QuoteBut the same thing could be said of not allowing people to drive to bars... Their judgement is impaired and they are more likely to drive home when drunk if they have a car. In all fairness, I think the two situations are a little different. Most people would be willing to try and get the keys away from somebody who is about to do something stupid, like driving a car drunk. How many would be willing to struggle with somebody trying to get away their gun when they are about to do something stupid, like shooting drunk? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #116 September 6, 2011 QuoteThe problem is ALCOHOL, not the location. No, it's the location, too, for the reasons I specify in my Post #41 above. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #117 September 6, 2011 QuoteQuoteThe problem is ALCOHOL, not the location. No, it's the location, too, for the reasons I specify in my Post #41 above. IHOP seems to give loonies with guns conniptions, too.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #118 September 7, 2011 Quote IHOP seems to give loonies with guns conniptions, too. Tell you this: that's the last time they forget to put the fucking bananas on the short stack. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #119 September 12, 2011 QuoteIn all fairness, I think the two situations are a little different. Most people would be willing to try and get the keys away from somebody who is about to do something stupid, like driving a car drunk. Look at the SITUATION presented, don't add on additional situations till we have ironed out the original situation. And to answer your point.... Yes, people have gotten into fights over trying to take a persons car keys. But the point remains, what DANGER is a totally sober person with a gun? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #120 September 12, 2011 QuoteNo, it's the location, too No, a totally sober person in a bar is no additional danger. You can try to claim that a bar is a violent place, but then you should work on banning bars. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #121 September 12, 2011 QuoteIHOP seems to give loonies with guns conniptions, too. Seems the current laws failed to work QuoteHe had at least one previous encounter with the law. He was taken into protective custody by South Lake Tahoe police during a mental health commitment in April 2000. He fought with officers during the incident but was not charged. GCA of 1968 would not allow this person to own a weapon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,121 #122 September 12, 2011 QuoteBut the point remains, what DANGER is a totally sober person with a gun? Generally more of a danger than a totally sober person without a gun. But in the grand scheme of things, not much of a danger. Thought we were discussing mixing alcohol and firearms and the very contrived examples both pro and con. Most can agree that a drunk with a gun is slightly more dangerous than a drunk with car keys. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #123 September 12, 2011 Quote Thought we were discussing mixing alcohol and firearms and the very contrived examples both pro and con. Most can agree that a drunk with a gun is slightly more dangerous than a drunk with car keys. No, we can't, given the actual statistics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #124 September 12, 2011 QuoteMost can agree that a drunk with a gun is slightly more dangerous than a drunk with car keys. Negative. Drunk drivers killed about 26,000 people last year in America. There were about 9,600 homicides with guns. So drunk drivers are about two and a half times more deadly than people with guns. And the drunk drivers don't even intend to kill anyone, while the murderers are actually trying to do so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,393 #125 September 12, 2011 >So drunk drivers are about two and a half times more deadly than people with guns. Hmm. There are only about 40 deaths every year from skydiving. Does that mean that driving is over 500 times more deadly than skydiving? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
