metalslug 31 #26 August 4, 2011 Several threads have appeared in this forum in recent months regarding alleged police brutality or improper conduct. By my understanding of U.S. law; you are required to cooperate with LEO's at all times and there is seldom an excuse for resisting arrest. However, in the context of U.S. incidents, my question is this; If, in your opinion, a LEO displays improper conduct towards you; you may be inclined to suspect that the LEO is an imposter, a fake, due to the improper conduct being displayed. If you were to then cease cooperation, resist arrest and 'escape' to the nearest police precinct to report the matter.... could you then make a defense that you did not resist arrest because you had reasonable grounds to believe that the LEO was not a legitimate officer ? "Real cops would have followed procedure, real cops would not have done XXXXX..." Does it sound like a stretch? Not so much over here. A number of incidents occurred here in which crimes were committed by criminals impersonating police officers; complete with authentic uniforms, vests, blue lights, and in some cases even marked cars. This equipment had either been stolen from police suppliers or was "on loan" from corrupt officers. The result was that the national police commissioner made a public announcement that it was now acceptable to evade police on the condition that you direct yourself immediately to the nearest police station (as it's called here) and report the incident. Under such circumstances you would be very unlikely to face charges of resisting arrest. "Officer, a moment ago I evaded arrest because I did not believe that rude thug was a real cop... so I'm here to report the matter." Would anything like that "fly" in the U.S system ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #27 August 4, 2011 Quote"Officer, a moment ago I evaded arrest because I did not believe that rude thug was a real cop... so I'm here to report the matter." Would anything like that "fly" in the U.S system ? If the person went directly from the attempted arrest to the police station itself, maybe. Not saying yes, just maybe. I think if the original officer was following him and the suspect so much as took a wrong turn, his chances go down significantly. I think if the guy stopped at Taco Bell for just one last bite of "freedom," he'd be screwed.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 620 #28 August 4, 2011 Sounds about what I would expect as well. Of course, once five of them tackle you, it's pretty hard to verify if they are in fact cops. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #29 August 4, 2011 Quote Sounds about what I would expect as well. Of course, once five of them tackle you, it's pretty hard to verify if they are in fact cops. Or if in the act of trying to get to the police station they do manage to stop your car and shoot you a hundred times because they are all over amped on adrenaline. YOU WILL COMPLY It is amazing how the blue death penalty is being applied in this country for the strangest of infractions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #30 August 4, 2011 Well, let's be at least sort of logical in our hypothetical. It's highly unlikely a fake cop is going to roll up with a black and white. Think of how unlikely five separate fake cops with black and whites would be.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 185 #31 August 4, 2011 QuoteWell, let's be at least sort of logical in our hypothetical. It's highly unlikely a fake cop is going to roll up with a black and white. Think of how unlikely five separate fake cops with black and whites would be. Given that they then proceeded to murder him, his attempt to flee in terror seems rather well justified. The excuse put forth by the department that they only murder people once in a while does not do much to sway me. If you want to wear a white hat, you have to follow the rules. BSBD, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #32 August 4, 2011 QuoteWell, let's be at least sort of logical in our hypothetical. It's highly unlikely a fake cop is going to roll up with a black and white. Think of how unlikely five separate fake cops with black and whites would be. SO... these are the people you want to turn ALL of the tasers and guns over to right??? Hey if they feel safe with all the guns.. maybe they wont shoot you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aphid 0 #33 August 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteIf you want to wear a white hat, you have to follow the rules. Please sir, might I steal this line? John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 3 #34 August 4, 2011 QuoteSO... these are the people you want to turn ALL of the tasers and guns over to right??? Hey if they feel safe with all the guns.. maybe they wont shoot you. Let's not confuse the hypothetical with what happened in Fullerton. According to all reports; The police were called in response to a report of a man breaking into car. When the police pulled up the man attempted to runaway. When the police searched the man they found items in his backpack indicating he was, in fact, the man breaking into cars. The man then resisted arrest, injuring two officers enough to break bones. The police tased the man, which brought him to the ground. Witnesses say the police continued to beat the man, but so far it's simply hearsay as to how many blows, where they landed and the extent of the injuries as a result of the beating. The coroner's report was inconclusive and didn't mention skull fractures, at least not in any way that's been reported so far by the media. Let's pose another hypothetical. If somebody tases a guy, the guy falls down, hits his skull on the pavement and five days later the guy dies . . . is that "murder"? Seems to me that if the cops wanted to murder a homeless guy because the guy broke some bones of fellow police officers, they could simply pull out their handgun and shoot the guy.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites winsor 185 #35 August 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteSO... these are the people you want to turn ALL of the tasers and guns over to right??? Hey if they feel safe with all the guns.. maybe they wont shoot you. Let's not confuse the hypothetical with what happened in Fullerton. According to all reports; The police were called in response to a report of a man breaking into car. When the police pulled up the man attempted to runaway. When the police searched the man they found items in his backpack indicating he was, in fact, the man breaking into cars. The man then resisted arrest, injuring two officers enough to break bones. The police tased the man, which brought him to the ground. Witnesses say the police continued to beat the man, but so far it's simply hearsay as to how many blows, where they landed and the extent of the injuries as a result of the beating. The coroner's report was inconclusive and didn't mention skull fractures, at least not in any way that's been reported so far by the media. Let's pose another hypothetical. If somebody tases a guy, the guy falls down, hits his skull on the pavement and five days later the guy dies . . . is that "murder"? Seems to me that if the cops wanted to murder a homeless guy because the guy broke some bones of fellow police officers, they could simply pull out their handgun and shoot the guy. Gosh, since you put it so reasonably, I guess its okay for cops to murder people. Thanks for clearing that up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites normiss 620 #36 August 4, 2011 If it takes five heavily armed, physically over-powering, "highly trained" police to "restrain" someone and a few ribs are broken in the process, and the detainee subsequently dies of injuries....maybe they need to invest in some training on how to identify and deal with those with mental issues. Although he was only just some homeless whacko anyway. It's all good. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 3 #37 August 4, 2011 QuoteIf it takes five heavily armed, physically over-powering, "highly trained" police to "restrain" someone and a few ribs are broken in the process, and the detainee subsequently dies of injuries....maybe they need to invest in some training on how to identify and deal with those with mental issues. They undoubtly will. That still doesn't make it murder.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites normiss 620 #38 August 4, 2011 I'll give you that at this point in time I suppose. That would be the right way to view this. At this time. My guess is that at least one cop will "go down" to some degree in this case. I base that on what I'm hearing has been seen on the video that hasn't been released as well as the speed at which the FBI got involved (on their own for that matter). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites charlie5 0 #39 August 4, 2011 Quote That still doesn't make it murder. Correct, it's just manslaughter, no biggie.The feather butts bounce off ya like raindrops hitting a battle-star when they come in too fast...kinda funny to watch. - airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites winsor 185 #40 August 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteIf it takes five heavily armed, physically over-powering, "highly trained" police to "restrain" someone and a few ribs are broken in the process, and the detainee subsequently dies of injuries....maybe they need to invest in some training on how to identify and deal with those with mental issues. They undoubtly will. That still doesn't make it murder. Right. Let's call it "rigor mortis restraint." What the hell, he was not going to live forever anyway, and the cops were just doing him a favor by getting on with the inevitable. I mean beating the guy to a bloody pulp was what any reasonable person would do. It is obviously the fault of the deceased - he committed "suicide by cop." You are right to defend the caring public servants whose only purpose is to Serve and Protect, who barely survived the encounter with a crazed criminal. It is totally unfair that people have come to view them as vicious, murdering assholes. Good on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 3 #41 August 4, 2011 QuoteQuote That still doesn't make it murder. Correct, it's just manslaughter, no biggie. It is a significant distinction. The first requires malice aforethought. It's possible an officer will still be charged with murder under California law, but I'm not exactly certain where the cut off is in getting charged with murder if you punch a guy and for some odd reason he dies later. I'm guessing that is what things like, facts, trials and juries are for.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites normiss 620 #42 August 4, 2011 Given the repeated quotes of witness that the cop on top of him beat the back of his head in with the butt of the tazer...I'm hoping for murder. It's time that cops stop seeing citizens as the enemy. The local community KNEW this victim. WTF didn't the cops??? They are out of touch with the community. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 3 #43 August 4, 2011 QuoteThe local community KNEW this victim. WTF didn't the cops??? What makes you think the police didn't know the guy? The guy had hung out in the area for years, had a long history of police contact as a result of his behavior involving local businesses and, to top it all off, is the son of a retired Orange County Deputy Sheriff. I'm pretty sure the cops knew who they were dealing with.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites normiss 620 #44 August 4, 2011 Apparently they didn't. Seriously, would you approach, react, and deal with a schitzo like a normal person??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 3 #45 August 4, 2011 QuoteApparently they didn't. Seriously, would you approach, react, and deal with a schitzo like a normal person??? Too many hypotheticals and variable to answer definitively. We still haven't' seen the event in question from start to finish. If I was a cop and knew the guy I was going to have to deal with was a schitzo, I'd absolutely want some backup. Whoever responded first here got another four to join him by the end of it. Either the first officer at the scene knew this guy was trouble before getting out of the car or it seems to me that was an amazing amount of people just showing up for a simple look-see at the reports of a guy breaking into cars.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites normiss 620 #46 August 5, 2011 Fair point. I didn't see that side. It would be quite possible that his psycho side could be quite violent couldn't it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BartsDaddy 4 #47 September 21, 2011 an update http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44612890/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/ Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #48 September 21, 2011 Quotean update http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44612890/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/ Clickified Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites normiss 620 #49 September 21, 2011 Cricky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jtiflyer 0 #50 September 21, 2011 QuoteClearly those teens should be arrested for interfering with official police business. Possibly also violating wiretapping statutes. 1st court of appeals upheld decision, that it is perfectly legal to videotape police. http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2011/08/30/...ting-officers/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
quade 3 #34 August 4, 2011 QuoteSO... these are the people you want to turn ALL of the tasers and guns over to right??? Hey if they feel safe with all the guns.. maybe they wont shoot you. Let's not confuse the hypothetical with what happened in Fullerton. According to all reports; The police were called in response to a report of a man breaking into car. When the police pulled up the man attempted to runaway. When the police searched the man they found items in his backpack indicating he was, in fact, the man breaking into cars. The man then resisted arrest, injuring two officers enough to break bones. The police tased the man, which brought him to the ground. Witnesses say the police continued to beat the man, but so far it's simply hearsay as to how many blows, where they landed and the extent of the injuries as a result of the beating. The coroner's report was inconclusive and didn't mention skull fractures, at least not in any way that's been reported so far by the media. Let's pose another hypothetical. If somebody tases a guy, the guy falls down, hits his skull on the pavement and five days later the guy dies . . . is that "murder"? Seems to me that if the cops wanted to murder a homeless guy because the guy broke some bones of fellow police officers, they could simply pull out their handgun and shoot the guy.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 185 #35 August 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteSO... these are the people you want to turn ALL of the tasers and guns over to right??? Hey if they feel safe with all the guns.. maybe they wont shoot you. Let's not confuse the hypothetical with what happened in Fullerton. According to all reports; The police were called in response to a report of a man breaking into car. When the police pulled up the man attempted to runaway. When the police searched the man they found items in his backpack indicating he was, in fact, the man breaking into cars. The man then resisted arrest, injuring two officers enough to break bones. The police tased the man, which brought him to the ground. Witnesses say the police continued to beat the man, but so far it's simply hearsay as to how many blows, where they landed and the extent of the injuries as a result of the beating. The coroner's report was inconclusive and didn't mention skull fractures, at least not in any way that's been reported so far by the media. Let's pose another hypothetical. If somebody tases a guy, the guy falls down, hits his skull on the pavement and five days later the guy dies . . . is that "murder"? Seems to me that if the cops wanted to murder a homeless guy because the guy broke some bones of fellow police officers, they could simply pull out their handgun and shoot the guy. Gosh, since you put it so reasonably, I guess its okay for cops to murder people. Thanks for clearing that up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 620 #36 August 4, 2011 If it takes five heavily armed, physically over-powering, "highly trained" police to "restrain" someone and a few ribs are broken in the process, and the detainee subsequently dies of injuries....maybe they need to invest in some training on how to identify and deal with those with mental issues. Although he was only just some homeless whacko anyway. It's all good. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #37 August 4, 2011 QuoteIf it takes five heavily armed, physically over-powering, "highly trained" police to "restrain" someone and a few ribs are broken in the process, and the detainee subsequently dies of injuries....maybe they need to invest in some training on how to identify and deal with those with mental issues. They undoubtly will. That still doesn't make it murder.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 620 #38 August 4, 2011 I'll give you that at this point in time I suppose. That would be the right way to view this. At this time. My guess is that at least one cop will "go down" to some degree in this case. I base that on what I'm hearing has been seen on the video that hasn't been released as well as the speed at which the FBI got involved (on their own for that matter). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
charlie5 0 #39 August 4, 2011 Quote That still doesn't make it murder. Correct, it's just manslaughter, no biggie.The feather butts bounce off ya like raindrops hitting a battle-star when they come in too fast...kinda funny to watch. - airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 185 #40 August 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteIf it takes five heavily armed, physically over-powering, "highly trained" police to "restrain" someone and a few ribs are broken in the process, and the detainee subsequently dies of injuries....maybe they need to invest in some training on how to identify and deal with those with mental issues. They undoubtly will. That still doesn't make it murder. Right. Let's call it "rigor mortis restraint." What the hell, he was not going to live forever anyway, and the cops were just doing him a favor by getting on with the inevitable. I mean beating the guy to a bloody pulp was what any reasonable person would do. It is obviously the fault of the deceased - he committed "suicide by cop." You are right to defend the caring public servants whose only purpose is to Serve and Protect, who barely survived the encounter with a crazed criminal. It is totally unfair that people have come to view them as vicious, murdering assholes. Good on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #41 August 4, 2011 QuoteQuote That still doesn't make it murder. Correct, it's just manslaughter, no biggie. It is a significant distinction. The first requires malice aforethought. It's possible an officer will still be charged with murder under California law, but I'm not exactly certain where the cut off is in getting charged with murder if you punch a guy and for some odd reason he dies later. I'm guessing that is what things like, facts, trials and juries are for.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 620 #42 August 4, 2011 Given the repeated quotes of witness that the cop on top of him beat the back of his head in with the butt of the tazer...I'm hoping for murder. It's time that cops stop seeing citizens as the enemy. The local community KNEW this victim. WTF didn't the cops??? They are out of touch with the community. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #43 August 4, 2011 QuoteThe local community KNEW this victim. WTF didn't the cops??? What makes you think the police didn't know the guy? The guy had hung out in the area for years, had a long history of police contact as a result of his behavior involving local businesses and, to top it all off, is the son of a retired Orange County Deputy Sheriff. I'm pretty sure the cops knew who they were dealing with.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 620 #44 August 4, 2011 Apparently they didn't. Seriously, would you approach, react, and deal with a schitzo like a normal person??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #45 August 4, 2011 QuoteApparently they didn't. Seriously, would you approach, react, and deal with a schitzo like a normal person??? Too many hypotheticals and variable to answer definitively. We still haven't' seen the event in question from start to finish. If I was a cop and knew the guy I was going to have to deal with was a schitzo, I'd absolutely want some backup. Whoever responded first here got another four to join him by the end of it. Either the first officer at the scene knew this guy was trouble before getting out of the car or it seems to me that was an amazing amount of people just showing up for a simple look-see at the reports of a guy breaking into cars.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 620 #46 August 5, 2011 Fair point. I didn't see that side. It would be quite possible that his psycho side could be quite violent couldn't it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BartsDaddy 4 #47 September 21, 2011 an update http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44612890/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/ Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #48 September 21, 2011 Quotean update http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44612890/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/ Clickified Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtiflyer 0 #50 September 21, 2011 QuoteClearly those teens should be arrested for interfering with official police business. Possibly also violating wiretapping statutes. 1st court of appeals upheld decision, that it is perfectly legal to videotape police. http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2011/08/30/...ting-officers/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
