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DanJohnson

Israels' "Right to Exist"

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Stick to the debate...K?



When are YOU going to?




So you're asserting that because Iran does not like Israel, that give Israel (nuclear rogue) the right to insist that Iran give up nuclear energy (not nuclear rogue)

Can you elaborate on this opinion?



Asked/answered above - Imadinnerjacket's remarks are easily enough found.



Huh? You can't answer?



Already did, twice now.

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But you made the attack on my comments. Not the other poster. You need to answer. Or run, Forrest, run. You are the one that's insinuated that I'm not trying to debate you. But rather trying to derail the topic. Yet here I am politely debating a wall again. No valid responses.



Your lack of approval of a response doesn't make it invalid.

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It's obvious you are neither equipped for this debate nor posses the skills to have a debate without personal attacks and childish remarks.



Remind me who mentioned the whatever brochure and reading comprehension, again?

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That's okay though. Just don't jump in water over your head unless you can swim. It's a waste of time for all involved.



You'd certainly now, with all the life preservers floating around while you thrash about.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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A nuclear rogue is a notion that posses nuclear weapons of mass destruction and refuses any international bodies to monitor the nuclear program. A nuclear rogue is any nation that posses nuclear weapons of mass destruction and refuses to sign the NPT.

rogue:no longer obedient, belonging, or accepted and hence not controllable or answerable; deviating, renegade:

Rogue State: a state that conducts its policy in a dangerously unpredictable way, disregarding international law or diplomacy.

Sounds like I nailed it no?



How dare you describe the United States in such unflattering terms?!

Okay, I'll admit we are the only country that has ever had the bad taste to actually prove that Nukes are in fact WMDs by incinerating a couple of cities, but it seemed like a good idea at the time. How were we to know that Curtis W. LeMay's stated policy of "reducing the Japanese population by half" (largely successful) had so inured the Japanese population to massacre from above that they basically shrugged it off as another couple of cities to add to the tally, and that it was only the Soviet Union declaring war on Japan that convinced the Diet to surrender to MacArthur?

Compared to the USA, Israel is one of the kindest, gentlest nations about (okay, so that's not saying much).

What do you recommend? Should Israel treat Muhammadeans with the same courtesy as Jews get in, say, Saudi Arabia? Hey, fair's fair.



No, I recommend that either Israel sign the NPT and follow it, allow the IEAE in for monitoring and shut up about Irans program - or be properly treated as a Nuclear Rogue that they have been correctly called.

Are you saying that Israel is NOT an international nuclear ROGUE? If so, I'll entertain an alternative definition of that term that shows differently. At this point Israel fits it perfectly.


Carpe Diem

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Stick to the debate...K?



When are YOU going to?




So you're asserting that because Iran does not like Israel, that give Israel (nuclear rogue) the right to insist that Iran give up nuclear energy (not nuclear rogue)

Can you elaborate on this opinion?



Asked/answered above - Imadinnerjacket's remarks are easily enough found.



Huh? You can't answer?



Already did, twice now.

Quote

But you made the attack on my comments. Not the other poster. You need to answer. Or run, Forrest, run. You are the one that's insinuated that I'm not trying to debate you. But rather trying to derail the topic. Yet here I am politely debating a wall again. No valid responses.



Your lack of approval of a response doesn't make it invalid.

Quote

It's obvious you are neither equipped for this debate nor posses the skills to have a debate without personal attacks and childish remarks.



Remind me who mentioned the whatever brochure and reading comprehension, again?

Quote

That's okay though. Just don't jump in water over your head unless you can swim. It's a waste of time for all involved.



You'd certainly now, with all the life preservers floating around while you thrash about.



Um, I find you extremely delusional and very typical of the insulting and character attacking posters familiar with the 2009 Global dictionary I referred to earlier. Maybe you simply don't understand the influence it's had on you. You simply have zero substance in your posts. I've tried to be patient but I ran out of troll snacks...sorry Forrest.


Carpe Diem

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It seems that there is a break in the ranks over whether an independent Palestine should be created.



Tell ya what, to be fair I'll address any accusation or "fact" you claim that I feel is incorrect or pointless. But only after you do the same

You are implying that because a nuclear rogue nation is verbally attacked by a nation that works within the confines of international nuclear scrutiny, the rouge nation has the right to insist a signer and participant of the NPT be stripped of any nuclear energy capabilities?

Is that your reasoning?



I haven't stated my views about nuclear proliferation in the Middle East in these forums. However, any country that signs the NPT should be bound by that promise. Personally, my opinion is that the country of Iran that signed the treaty in 1968 is not the same country of Iran that exists today and is not bound by that treaty. They are free to pursue that technology and should be prepared to accept any consequences of that pursuit when taken in context of making existential threats against another country.



Well, using that logic, the NPT is worthless to all countries that "change" (administrations, parties, flags, boundaries etc) - I disagree.

The world should be petrified of a nuclear rogue (israel) threatening a nation fully engaged with the IEAE. Here we have a nuclear rogue nation that currently uses collective punishment of an innocent civilian population as policy pointing fingers at another nation involved in the IEAE.

Sorry, but it seems Israel has exhibited 100 times more aggression in the last few decades then Iran has. And Israel is the nuclear rogue. Scary stuff.


Carpe Diem

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"Nuclear rogue", I like that. Can you define what exactly a "nuclear rogue" is? Sounds to me like they are lobbing nukes left and right! Has Gaza been vaporized?? How about Syria? Iran?? Lebanon?? Anybody??

Also, we must be living on different planets, because most of the news about Israel I see is pretty skewed against Israel. Must just be me though...



http://www.ifamericansknew.org/media/nyt-report.html

Interesting report to say the least. And BTW, omission of facts, statistics and events also falls into play with the filtering of news related to any events that might tarnish the image of Israel. It's pretty well known that Americans are not well versed on the realities of this issue. And I think that reason is because many rely on main stream media as the only source to whats happening in the world.


Carpe Diem

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Also, we must be living on different planets, because most of the news about Israel I see is pretty skewed against Israel. Must just be me though...



Another interesting thing I discovered related to the skewing of information on tarnishing events about Israel was the Megaphone software. This is used in conjunction with the legions of "online warriors" supported by programs of the Israel Foreign Ministry. So you see, combined with pro-israel news agencies, the omission of events that can tarnish the image of Israel and the immense effort to skew any poll or forum related to Israel - there is a very organized effort to deceive the public form the truth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaphone_desktop_tool

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article693911.ece

It's all very fascinating to me.


Carpe Diem

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Also, we must be living on different planets, because most of the news about Israel I see is pretty skewed against Israel. Must just be me though...



Another interesting thing I discovered related to the skewing of information on tarnishing events about Israel was the Megaphone software. This is used in conjunction with the legions of "online warriors" supported by programs of the Israel Foreign Ministry. So you see, combined with pro-israel news agencies, the omission of events that can tarnish the image of Israel and the immense effort to skew any poll or forum related to Israel - there is a very organized effort to deceive the public form the truth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaphone_desktop_tool

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article693911.ece

It's all very fascinating to me.


BAM!
http://www.adl.org/Israel/anti_israel/alison_weir/if-americans-knew.asp?m_flipmode=4
http://honestreporting.com/gaza-doctor-says-death-toll-inflated-2/
http://www.jcrcboston.org/focus/support/resources/un-bias-against-israel.html
I have links too!
I especially like this one:
On March 11, 1997, the Palestinian representative to the U.N. Human Rights Commission falsely charged Israel with injecting 300 Palestinian children with the HIV virus.

You say tomato, I say BS... I can do this all day. ;)
You know how I got here don't you?? My super secret megaphone app alerted me to your scurrilous accusations!! I'm not even a real skydiver!! I'm a zionist agent!!
I do enjoy our little chats though, don't get me wrong. Anything else?

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I haven't stated my views about nuclear proliferation in the Middle East in these forums. However, any country that signs the NPT should be bound by that promise. Personally, my opinion is that the country of Iran that signed the treaty in 1968 is not the same country of Iran that exists today and is not bound by that treaty. They are free to pursue that technology and should be prepared to accept any consequences of that pursuit when taken in context of making existential threats against another country.



Well, using that logic, the NPT is worthless to all countries that "change" (administrations, parties, flags, boundaries etc) - I disagree.

The world should be petrified of a nuclear rogue (israel) threatening a nation fully engaged with the IEAE. Here we have a nuclear rogue nation that currently uses collective punishment of an innocent civilian population as policy pointing fingers at another nation involved in the IEAE.

Sorry, but it seems Israel has exhibited 100 times more aggression in the last few decades then Iran has. And Israel is the nuclear rogue. Scary stuff.



Israel has funded hundreds of terrorist (freedom fighter, if you prefer) militant groups in other nations to encourage violence?

Back to the meat - how is a non signee to the NPT more of a rogue than a signee like Iran (or Syria) who violates the terms? Muff - Iran has to live up to its commitments, or officially withdraw from treaties that the new government doesn't want to be bound by. Of course, a nation that undoes its global promises with each election/revolution/coup will be treating accordingly.

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So, you think my fact of Israel being the record holder of Human Rights violations with the UN to be an opinion? Why is that? Can't use Google and verify yourself?



As I wrote, it's proof that the Human Rights committee is a political body with an axe to grind.

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So, you think my fact of Israel being the record holder of Human Rights violations with the UN to be an opinion? Why is that? Can't use Google and verify yourself?



As I wrote, it's proof that the Human Rights committee is a political body with an axe to grind.



And I reminded you that because the accusation comes from enemies of Israel, it does not make it a lie. It does not excuse Israel or diminish the offense to the point of denile.


Carpe Diem

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I haven't stated my views about nuclear proliferation in the Middle East in these forums. However, any country that signs the NPT should be bound by that promise. Personally, my opinion is that the country of Iran that signed the treaty in 1968 is not the same country of Iran that exists today and is not bound by that treaty. They are free to pursue that technology and should be prepared to accept any consequences of that pursuit when taken in context of making existential threats against another country.



Well, using that logic, the NPT is worthless to all countries that "change" (administrations, parties, flags, boundaries etc) - I disagree.

The world should be petrified of a nuclear rogue (israel) threatening a nation fully engaged with the IEAE. Here we have a nuclear rogue nation that currently uses collective punishment of an innocent civilian population as policy pointing fingers at another nation involved in the IEAE.

Sorry, but it seems Israel has exhibited 100 times more aggression in the last few decades then Iran has. And Israel is the nuclear rogue. Scary stuff.



Israel has funded hundreds of terrorist (freedom fighter, if you prefer) militant groups in other nations to encourage violence?

Back to the meat - how is a non signee to the NPT more of a rogue than a signee like Iran (or Syria) who violates the terms? Muff - Iran has to live up to its commitments, or officially withdraw from treaties that the new government doesn't want to be bound by. Of course, a nation that undoes its global promises with each election/revolution/coup will be treating accordingly.



No, Israel does its own dirty work of course. Iran simply tries to fund the ones they think are getting dirty. These coffee can rockets of Hamas really shows a lot of Iranian support. But I get your point. Kind of.

A non-signee has refused to even consider being regulated. Rogue. There is the huge difference to me.


Carpe Diem

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So, you think my fact of Israel being the record holder of Human Rights violations with the UN to be an opinion? Why is that? Can't use Google and verify yourself?



As I wrote, it's proof that the Human Rights committee is a political body with an axe to grind.



And I reminded you that because the accusation comes from enemies of Israel, it does not make it a lie. It does not excuse Israel or diminish the offense to the point of denile.



That is correct. Israel could be guilty of those offenses. But the fact that this "rights committee" (with some truly shining examples of scum on the panel) has made more findings against Israel than the rest of the world combined shows an obvious bias that cannot be supported by reality.

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Also, we must be living on different planets, because most of the news about Israel I see is pretty skewed against Israel. Must just be me though...



Another interesting thing I discovered related to the skewing of information on tarnishing events about Israel was the Megaphone software. This is used in conjunction with the legions of "online warriors" supported by programs of the Israel Foreign Ministry. So you see, combined with pro-israel news agencies, the omission of events that can tarnish the image of Israel and the immense effort to skew any poll or forum related to Israel - there is a very organized effort to deceive the public form the truth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaphone_desktop_tool

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article693911.ece

It's all very fascinating to me.


BAM!
http://www.adl.org/Israel/anti_israel/alison_weir/if-americans-knew.asp?m_flipmode=4
http://honestreporting.com/gaza-doctor-says-death-toll-inflated-2/
http://www.jcrcboston.org/focus/support/resources/un-bias-against-israel.html
I have links too!
I especially like this one:
On March 11, 1997, the Palestinian representative to the U.N. Human Rights Commission falsely charged Israel with injecting 300 Palestinian children with the HIV virus.

You say tomato, I say BS... I can do this all day. ;)
You know how I got here don't you?? My super secret megaphone app alerted me to your scurrilous accusations!! I'm not even a real skydiver!! I'm a zionist agent!!
I do enjoy our little chats though, don't get me wrong. Anything else?


Well, I wouldn't consider the ADL as an unbiased source. lol. At least you now realize that there is an organized effort from Israel and it's supporters to not only skew polls unfavorable to Israel but also silence any civil discourse by having mobs of pro-Israeli posters locate and pile on.

I found this information when I was noticing the trend of remarks. I would notice how a site would be silent for hours, but one hot button israel topic would bring them out like a fire alarm went off. Very organized and very effective. I'm afraid you might have fallen prey to the misinformation. Understanding how it is done to you should help with the deprogramming. ;)


Carpe Diem

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So, you think my fact of Israel being the record holder of Human Rights violations with the UN to be an opinion? Why is that? Can't use Google and verify yourself?



As I wrote, it's proof that the Human Rights committee is a political body with an axe to grind.



And I reminded you that because the accusation comes from enemies of Israel, it does not make it a lie. It does not excuse Israel or diminish the offense to the point of denile.



That is correct. Israel could be guilty of those offenses. But the fact that this "rights committee" (with some truly shining examples of scum on the panel) has made more findings against Israel than the rest of the world combined shows an obvious bias that cannot be supported by reality.



We agree. The "rights commission" is often leaning on Israel harder then other nations. And even though that is true, it does not mean Israel is not responsible for the offenses accused of.

See we can agree. I like that


Carpe Diem

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It seems that there is a break in the ranks over whether an independent Palestine should be created.



Tell ya what, to be fair I'll address any accusation or "fact" you claim that I feel is incorrect or pointless. But only after you do the same

You are implying that because a nuclear rogue nation is verbally attacked by a nation that works within the confines of international nuclear scrutiny, the rouge nation has the right to insist a signer and participant of the NPT be stripped of any nuclear energy capabilities?

Is that your reasoning?



I haven't stated my views about nuclear proliferation in the Middle East in these forums. However, any country that signs the NPT should be bound by that promise. Personally, my opinion is that the country of Iran that signed the treaty in 1968 is not the same country of Iran that exists today and is not bound by that treaty. They are free to pursue that technology and should be prepared to accept any consequences of that pursuit when taken in context of making existential threats against another country.



Well, using that logic, the NPT is worthless to all countries that "change" (administrations, parties, flags, boundaries etc) - I disagree.

The world should be petrified of a nuclear rogue (israel) threatening a nation fully engaged with the IEAE. Here we have a nuclear rogue nation that currently uses collective punishment of an innocent civilian population as policy pointing fingers at another nation involved in the IEAE.

Sorry, but it seems Israel has exhibited 100 times more aggression in the last few decades then Iran has. And Israel is the nuclear rogue. Scary stuff.



A revolution that not only deposes an administration but also a form of government is a bit different than an election or other lawful change of leadership. But, as I said, I agree that Iran should honor the Treaty. It's only my opinion that they, as a new country, should be allowed to either reaffirm or abandon their participation. Also, Israel has not threatened Iran with nuclear annihilation ...only a promise that they will not permit Iran to carry out direct threats that Iran's leadership has made against them.

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Also, we must be living on different planets, because most of the news about Israel I see is pretty skewed against Israel. Must just be me though...



Another interesting thing I discovered related to the skewing of information on tarnishing events about Israel was the Megaphone software. This is used in conjunction with the legions of "online warriors" supported by programs of the Israel Foreign Ministry. So you see, combined with pro-israel news agencies, the omission of events that can tarnish the image of Israel and the immense effort to skew any poll or forum related to Israel - there is a very organized effort to deceive the public form the truth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaphone_desktop_tool

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article693911.ece

It's all very fascinating to me.


BAM!
http://www.adl.org/Israel/anti_israel/alison_weir/if-americans-knew.asp?m_flipmode=4
http://honestreporting.com/gaza-doctor-says-death-toll-inflated-2/
http://www.jcrcboston.org/focus/support/resources/un-bias-against-israel.html
I have links too!
I especially like this one:
On March 11, 1997, the Palestinian representative to the U.N. Human Rights Commission falsely charged Israel with injecting 300 Palestinian children with the HIV virus.

You say tomato, I say BS... I can do this all day. ;)
You know how I got here don't you?? My super secret megaphone app alerted me to your scurrilous accusations!! I'm not even a real skydiver!! I'm a zionist agent!!
I do enjoy our little chats though, don't get me wrong. Anything else?


Well, I wouldn't consider the ADL as an unbiased source. lol. At least you now realize that there is an organized effort from Israel and it's supporters to not only skew polls unfavorable to Israel but also silence any civil discourse by having mobs of pro-Israeli posters locate and pile on.

I found this information when I was noticing the trend of remarks. I would notice how a site would be silent for hours, but one hot button israel topic would bring them out like a fire alarm went off. Very organized and very effective. I'm afraid you might have fallen prey to the misinformation. Understanding how it is done to you should help with the deprogramming. ;)

Haha..
Did you bother to read any of the links?
As for an "organized effort to skew polls and yada yada", come on, really?? Israel has been bashed online for so long, it's about time they did something about it... These Bullshit online polls are meaningless, but let's face it, sometimes people take notice.
As for the UN - tell me something. Do you believe that what happened in Rwanda was cool? How about Yugoslavia, are you down with that? If not, and the UN is totally unbiased, please explain:
The U.N. has repeatedly held "Emergency Special Sessions" focusing solely on Israel. Originally conceived in 1950 for emergencies like the Korean War, Emergency Special Sessions over the past 15 years have only focused on Israel. No Emergency Special Sessions were convened to examine the genocide in Rwanda, ethnic cleansing in the former Yugoslavia or other major world conflicts.
From: http://www.jcrcboston.org/focus/support/resources/un-bias-against-israel.html

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Also, we must be living on different planets, because most of the news about Israel I see is pretty skewed against Israel. Must just be me though...



Another interesting thing I discovered related to the skewing of information on tarnishing events about Israel was the Megaphone software. This is used in conjunction with the legions of "online warriors" supported by programs of the Israel Foreign Ministry. So you see, combined with pro-israel news agencies, the omission of events that can tarnish the image of Israel and the immense effort to skew any poll or forum related to Israel - there is a very organized effort to deceive the public form the truth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaphone_desktop_tool

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article693911.ece

It's all very fascinating to me.


BAM!
http://www.adl.org/Israel/anti_israel/alison_weir/if-americans-knew.asp?m_flipmode=4
http://honestreporting.com/gaza-doctor-says-death-toll-inflated-2/
http://www.jcrcboston.org/focus/support/resources/un-bias-against-israel.html
I have links too!
I especially like this one:
On March 11, 1997, the Palestinian representative to the U.N. Human Rights Commission falsely charged Israel with injecting 300 Palestinian children with the HIV virus.

You say tomato, I say BS... I can do this all day. ;)
You know how I got here don't you?? My super secret megaphone app alerted me to your scurrilous accusations!! I'm not even a real skydiver!! I'm a zionist agent!!
I do enjoy our little chats though, don't get me wrong. Anything else?


Well, I wouldn't consider the ADL as an unbiased source. lol. At least you now realize that there is an organized effort from Israel and it's supporters to not only skew polls unfavorable to Israel but also silence any civil discourse by having mobs of pro-Israeli posters locate and pile on.

I found this information when I was noticing the trend of remarks. I would notice how a site would be silent for hours, but one hot button israel topic would bring them out like a fire alarm went off. Very organized and very effective. I'm afraid you might have fallen prey to the misinformation. Understanding how it is done to you should help with the deprogramming. ;)

Haha..
Did you bother to read any of the links?
As for an "organized effort to skew polls and yada yada", come on, really?? Israel has been bashed online for so long, it's about time they did something about it... These Bullshit online polls are meaningless, but let's face it, sometimes people take notice.
As for the UN - tell me something. Do you believe that what happened in Rwanda was cool? How about Yugoslavia, are you down with that? If not, and the UN is totally unbiased, please explain:
The U.N. has repeatedly held "Emergency Special Sessions" focusing solely on Israel. Originally conceived in 1950 for emergencies like the Korean War, Emergency Special Sessions over the past 15 years have only focused on Israel. No Emergency Special Sessions were convened to examine the genocide in Rwanda, ethnic cleansing in the former Yugoslavia or other major world conflicts.
From: http://www.jcrcboston.org/focus/support/resources/un-bias-against-israel.html


I see your points and understand. And read some of your links. Although I'm not a fan of the UN, it must be referenced in the Israel debate. Also the Geneva Convention and Human Rights Charter for that matter. Israel is out of line on so many issues it's really hard to keep them all straight. And the strategy from your side is always to redirect to the accusers, use examples of other offenders or discount the parameters of international law. Not that you would do that.

My point and examples were that the news and information is skewed. And there is an enormous effort from Israel to deceive the public. You understand and agree with Israel in the deception. That's fine. The tricks played on the public through editing comments used for hard core propaganda is real. These are the reasons many average Americans are very mislead on this issue. They actually have dual loyalties with a nation that I find to be a financial, strategic and diplomatic burden. Bizarre until a better understanding of the propaganda is obtained.

Ignorance through propaganda in most cases

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onNzrNEFs1E

comments?


Carpe Diem

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It seems that there is a break in the ranks over whether an independent Palestine should be created.



Tell ya what, to be fair I'll address any accusation or "fact" you claim that I feel is incorrect or pointless. But only after you do the same

You are implying that because a nuclear rogue nation is verbally attacked by a nation that works within the confines of international nuclear scrutiny, the rouge nation has the right to insist a signer and participant of the NPT be stripped of any nuclear energy capabilities?

Is that your reasoning?



I haven't stated my views about nuclear proliferation in the Middle East in these forums. However, any country that signs the NPT should be bound by that promise. Personally, my opinion is that the country of Iran that signed the treaty in 1968 is not the same country of Iran that exists today and is not bound by that treaty. They are free to pursue that technology and should be prepared to accept any consequences of that pursuit when taken in context of making existential threats against another country.



Well, using that logic, the NPT is worthless to all countries that "change" (administrations, parties, flags, boundaries etc) - I disagree.

The world should be petrified of a nuclear rogue (israel) threatening a nation fully engaged with the IEAE. Here we have a nuclear rogue nation that currently uses collective punishment of an innocent civilian population as policy pointing fingers at another nation involved in the IEAE.

Sorry, but it seems Israel has exhibited 100 times more aggression in the last few decades then Iran has. And Israel is the nuclear rogue. Scary stuff.



A revolution that not only deposes an administration but also a form of government is a bit different than an election or other lawful change of leadership. But, as I said, I agree that Iran should honor the Treaty. It's only my opinion that they, as a new country, should be allowed to either reaffirm or abandon their participation. Also, Israel has not threatened Iran with nuclear annihilation ...only a promise that they will not permit Iran to carry out direct threats that Iran's leadership has made against them.



I don't recall Iran threatening Israel with nuclear annihilation either for that matter. Here's an example used in another post that seems useful here also. Disinformation is a bitch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onNzrNEFs1E


I agree a revolution is different then an election. I'm not a big fan of Iran but I am a fan of reality, history and understanding the "why's". Americans act as if our tensions with the Iranians started in 79 during the hostage situation. A bit off topic. But should bring a better understanding.

Are you familiar with Operation Ajax?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'état

https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/vol48no2/article10.html


Carpe Diem

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I see your points and understand. And read some of your links. Although I'm not a fan of the UN, it must be referenced in the Israel debate. Also the Geneva Convention and Human Rights Charter for that matter. Israel is out of line on so many issues it's really hard to keep them all straight. And the strategy from your side is always to redirect to the accusers, use examples of other offenders or discount the parameters of international law. Not that you would do that.

My point and examples were that the news and information is skewed. And there is an enormous effort from Israel to deceive the public. You understand and agree with Israel in the deception. That's fine. The tricks played on the public through editing comments used for hard core propaganda is real. These are the reasons many average Americans are very mislead on this issue. They actually have dual loyalties with a nation that I find to be a financial, strategic and diplomatic burden. Bizarre until a better understanding of the propaganda is obtained.

Ignorance through propaganda in most cases

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onNzrNEFs1E

comments?



Hey, we can agree on something!! There really is media bias!! You forgot to mention that it's on both sides though.. Oops...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_coverage_of_the_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_conflict

Media coverage of the conflict has been dogged by allegations of bias on both sides. We can argue this point forever But I'm getting kinda tired, aren't you??
To truly believe that there is bias toward only one side is ridiculous, at least in my mind.
Anywho, regarding your video link...Ummm, dayum!!! A TV show edited an interview and took words out of context?!?!?! I never heard of such a thing!!!

How can you take this bozo seriously after saying this?? Do you really think a sane and balanced person would come up with this gem?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_3RUwAJ_MI

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You make unsupported claims and then treat them as fact...

The Human rights committee (and much of the UN) is a biased, political entity and it cannot be taken seriously. Focusing on Israel 99% of the time is an insult and more than I feel sorry for Israel, I feel sorry for the many issues it overlooks. The statistics doesn't show Israel is so nasty. It simply shows how focused and targeted the UN (and the Human rights committee especially) is against Israel.

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Also the Geneva Convention



You keep bringing this up. Have you even read the relevant Geneva convention documents? It clearly states that all combatants and military installations must be clearly marked and distinguishable from civilians and away from civilian areas. You can't shoot from a back yard and store missiles in a school and then whine when it is attacked. If you use civilian buildings for attacks, they are not protected by the Geneva convention. they become a legitimate target.

But, instead of making vague accusations like that, let's talk specifics...
"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

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> .......
> I don't recall Iran threatening Israel with nuclear
> annihilation either for that matter. Here's an
> example used in another post that seems useful
> here also. Disinformation is a bitch.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onNzrNEFs1E

I didn't say that Iran threatened Israel with nukes. For all I know (or care) he is talking about underwear bombers and the new boob bombs. Doesn't matter. One sure thing, though, is that if Israel does go down (and it may well happen) it will go down swinging. One youtube video showing Ahmadinejad calling for "elections" does not prove or disprove his (already stated) intent to bring the State of Israel to an end. ...no more than your claims that Israel is a rogue nuclear state make it so. Besides, Iran should have no political interest in Israel, a country that is separated from them by 2 intervening nations and had never posed a threat to them prior to Iran's joining the Arab nations in their hatred of Israel. But, it seems that Iran is already militarily antagonizing Israel through their surrogates, Hamas and Hezbollah while Ahm. is pontificating on western TV shows about how "democratic" and rational he is. Israel has shown great restraint by not having already turned Iran into a smoking hole.

> I agree a revolution is different then an election.
> I'm not a big fan of Iran but I am a fan of reality,
> history and understanding the "why's". Americans
> act as if our tensions with the Iranians started in 79 > during the hostage situation. A bit off topic. But
> should bring a better understanding.
>
> Are you familiar with Operation Ajax?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'état
>
> https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/vol48no2/article10.html

Iran may or may not have legitimate beefs with the US. History. Time to move on if you're really interested in peace in the region. Israel has formally existed in the region for 63 years. Time for the Arabs to repatriate their exiled Palestinian friends. Release them from their prison encampments and let them become citizens ...just as Israel has offered them citizenship. (of course not to the Pals who took up arms against Israel during their multiple wars of aggression and were banished from Israel.)

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I didn't say that Iran threatened Israel with nukes. For all I know (or care) he is talking about underwear bombers and the new boob bombs.



They were talking about the Zionist regime when they specifically said "the Zionist regime". Not Israel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel#Translation_controversy

They went on to say that the Zionist regime will eventually collapse anyway.
Back a hundred years ago, especially around Woodrow Wilson, what happened in this country is we took freedom and we chopped it into pieces.
Ron Paul

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I didn't say that Iran threatened Israel with nukes. For all I know (or care) he is talking about underwear bombers and the new boob bombs.



They were talking about the Zionist regime when they specifically said "the Zionist regime". Not Israel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel#Translation_controversy

They went on to say that the Zionist regime will eventually collapse anyway.



Well, only a dumbass would think that Ahmadinejad was talking about wiping the actual land mass off of the map. He obviously doesn't tolerate a country under "Jewish rule" in the region but, shazam! ...he does tolerate states under Islamic rule. His democracy is showing. He is perfectly OK with an "Israeli" state ....as long as it is run by Muslims. He also condemns "...all Muslim leaders who accept the existence of Israel as 'acknowledging a surrender and defeat of the Islamic world.'"

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Well, only a dumbass would think that Ahmadinejad was talking about wiping the actual land mass off of the map.



then only a dumbass would suggest that he said "wipe israel off the map".

Semantics I know, but that is not what he said.

do I agree with him...No!

Do i agree with israel...No!

I want peace, and from what I can see Iran is much more Peacful than Israel...
Back a hundred years ago, especially around Woodrow Wilson, what happened in this country is we took freedom and we chopped it into pieces.
Ron Paul

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