Israels' "Right to Exist"

[mnealtx 0]

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Mike - calling your opponent "anti-Semitic" for not agreeing with the policies of Israel is a distraction tactic because it is slander without cause.

And what would claiming I use a 'Hasbara training manual' be, pray tell?

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Regarding "sophistication" of this topic? That means complicated. Your reading comprehension is the issue here.

My comprehension is just fine - your 'facts' appear to me more along the line of opinion.

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So, if you'd like to continue this debate with me, please stick to facts and not wasting time with defending slander or other distraction tactics. I'm not interested in that thanks.

For someone not interested in it, you sure use a lot of it.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Amazon 7]

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i think you'll find it's taken a bit longer than that for israel to come into existence
(meanwhile i would have thought you'd be grateful to the un for granting you statehood - and now it looks like the same for palestine, so double success)

PSSST... DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUD you seem to forget... it was in existence for over 1000 years... not that any kind of reality can creep into blind hatred you have for them based on your support for Hamas et al.

[Alias 0]

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Mike - calling your opponent "anti-Semitic" for not agreeing with the policies of Israel is a distraction tactic because it is slander without cause.

And what would claiming I use a 'Hasbara training manual' be, pray tell?

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Regarding "sophistication" of this topic? That means complicated. Your reading comprehension is the issue here.

My comprehension is just fine - your 'facts' appear to me more along the line of opinion.

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So, if you'd like to continue this debate with me, please stick to facts and not wasting time with defending slander or other distraction tactics. I'm not interested in that thanks.

For someone not interesting in it, you sure use a lot of it.

If you were to research the Hasbara 2009 Global Dictionary you'd find that you not sticking to the topic and instead derailing at every opportunity is very consistent with that text. My connecting these observations is just that. An observation based on countless debates.

So, you think my fact of Israel being the record holder of Human Rights violations with the UN to be an opinion? Why is that? Can't use Google and verify yourself?

Carpe Diem

[mnealtx 0]

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If you were to research the Hasbara 2009 Global Dictionary you'd find that you not sticking to the topic and instead derailing at every opportunity is very consistent with that text. My connecting these observations is just that. An observation based on countless debates.

Now if you could just prove that I'd ever even heard of this manual or dictionary or whatever prior to our interaction, you might even have a point - as it is, YOU are the one doing the derailing.

As for "countless debates" - do you use the same bogus tactics in all the rest of them, too, or is it restricted to this one?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Alias 0]

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If you were to research the Hasbara 2009 Global Dictionary you'd find that you not sticking to the topic and instead derailing at every opportunity is very consistent with that text. My connecting these observations is just that. An observation based on countless debates.

Now if you could just prove that I'd ever even heard of this manual or dictionary or whatever prior to our interaction, you might even have a point - as it is, YOU are the one doing the derailing.

As for "countless debates" - do you use the same bogus tactics in all the rest of them, too, or is it restricted to this one?

Let's see if this works again:

So, you think my fact of Israel being the record holder of Human Rights violations with the UN to be an opinion? Why is that? Can you not address the question in a non insulting, non derailing fashion?

It's called a debate. Not an insultfest. Wanna try? Got it in ya?

Carpe Diem

[Alias 0]

Why is Israel an international nuclear rogue yet claims Iran should be monitored until dismantled?? what give a nuclear rogue that right?

Carpe Diem

[mnealtx 0]

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Why is Israel an international nuclear rogue yet claims Iran should be monitored until dismantled?? what give a nuclear rogue that right?

Well, for starts, Bibi hasn't claimed that Iran needs to be wiped off the face of the Earth that I'm aware of - Imadinnerjacket, however, *has* stated that about Israel.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[muff528 3]

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There is no humor or a lighter side of genocide when 800,000 plus people are killed in 100 days while the world watches.

I assume you're talking about Rwanda there -- no other genocide of such wretched efficiency happened in modern times. That genocide had nothing to do with Israel, and if anyone is to blame for that, it is 1. the very useless and impotent UN and 2. America, whose State department stood by and played semantics with the word "genocide" as hundreds of thousands died.

The fact that humans do nothing as others go to the slaughter, so long as it's not "their" group of people being killed (WWI Anatolia; WWII Europe; 1990s Rwanda, as brought up in this thread), is why Israel's existence shouldn't even be a subject of discussion. Israel has every reason to act zealously in its own self-defense when attacked time and time again as the world continues to watch. Once again -- a bit of empathy.

The premise of this whole thread "right to exist" (in quotes, mind you) is a farce.

If you crunch the numbers, Mao actually killed more people per day (and total as well)

Well, when it came to purges and mass killings the commies (Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc.) made the National Socialist fascists and the religion-based killers look like pikers. But the League of Nations, and later the UN, didn't do much more than issue "resolutions" or do a little gum-flapping over any of it. Israel is just an easy target for them to condemn because they know there will be absolutely no retribution from Israel or the US. It makes them feel good in their pompous grandiosity and they can go home and sleep at night believing that by raising their finger into the air and spouting platitudes they have made meaningful, important contributions to peace on earth. ...well, that and most of the members of these UN councils are agenda-driven against Israel and the US anyway.

[Alias 0]

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Why is Israel an international nuclear rogue yet claims Iran should be monitored until dismantled?? what give a nuclear rogue that right?

Well, for starts, Bibi hasn't claimed that Iran needs to be wiped off the face of the Earth that I'm aware of - Imadinnerjacket, however, *has* stated that about Israel.

So you're asserting that because Iran does not like Israel, that give Israel (nuclear rogue) the right to insist that Iran give up nuclear energy (not nuclear rogue)

Can you elaborate on this opinion? It's difficult to follow your hypocritical reasoning.

Carpe Diem

[mnealtx 0]

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Why is Israel an international nuclear rogue yet claims Iran should be monitored until dismantled?? what give a nuclear rogue that right?

Well, for starts, Bibi hasn't claimed that Iran needs to be wiped off the face of the Earth that I'm aware of - Imadinnerjacket, however, *has* stated that about Israel.

So you're asserting that because Iran does not like Israel, that give Israel (nuclear rogue) the right to insist that Iran give up nuclear energy (not nuclear rogue)

Can you elaborate on this opinion? It's difficult to follow your hypocritical reasoning.

Oh, look...another slanderous, distracting comment - yes, you're quite the master debater, aren't you?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Alias 0]

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If you were to research the Hasbara 2009 Global Dictionary you'd find that you not sticking to the topic and instead derailing at every opportunity is very consistent with that text. My connecting these observations is just that. An observation based on countless debates.

Now if you could just prove that I'd ever even heard of this manual or dictionary or whatever prior to our interaction, you might even have a point - as it is, YOU are the one doing the derailing.

As for "countless debates" - do you use the same bogus tactics in all the rest of them, too, or is it restricted to this one?

So, you think my fact of Israel being the record holder of Human Rights violations with the UN to be an opinion? Why is that? Can you not address the question in a non insulting, non derailing fashion?

Carpe Diem

[Alias 0]

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Why is Israel an international nuclear rogue yet claims Iran should be monitored until dismantled?? what give a nuclear rogue that right?

Well, for starts, Bibi hasn't claimed that Iran needs to be wiped off the face of the Earth that I'm aware of - Imadinnerjacket, however, *has* stated that about Israel.

So you're asserting that because Iran does not like Israel, that give Israel (nuclear rogue) the right to insist that Iran give up nuclear energy (not nuclear rogue)

Can you elaborate on this opinion? It's difficult to follow your hypocritical reasoning.

Oh, look...another slanderous, distracting comment - yes, you're quite the master debater, aren't you?

Can you not answer the question. You claimed it was my opinion. I claim it's fact. Well, opinions are based on facts. So you might technically be correct that it's my opinion ...based on fact.

You obviously cannot deny these facts so I'll move along. Theres plenty more to debate then that one fact.

BTW, I certainly would not think any comments I made to be slanderous (please provide quote) or any derailing tactics. So, give up your efforts and stick to a pleasant debate huh?

Stick to the debate...K?

Carpe Diem

[mnealtx 0]

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Stick to the debate...K?

When are YOU going to?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[muff528 3]

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If you were to research the Hasbara 2009 Global Dictionary you'd find that you not sticking to the topic and instead derailing at every opportunity is very consistent with that text. My connecting these observations is just that. An observation based on countless debates.

Now if you could just prove that I'd ever even heard of this manual or dictionary or whatever prior to our interaction, you might even have a point - as it is, YOU are the one doing the derailing.

As for "countless debates" - do you use the same bogus tactics in all the rest of them, too, or is it restricted to this one?

So, you think my fact of Israel being the record holder of Human Rights violations with the UN to be an opinion? Why is that? Can you not address the question in a non insulting, non derailing fashion?

Wiki lists 224 UN resolutions "concerning" Israel (up until January 2009). I can't find any such list of resolutions against the Palestinians ...or any UN-cited Human Rights violations against them despite repeated wars, missile attacks and terrorist bombings against Israel. It's probably just me, but I think this says more about the UN than it does about either Israel or the Palestinians. Their credibility is in the toilet as far as I'm concerned. So, yes ...Israel is the record holder at the UN. Go figure!

[Alias 0]

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Stick to the debate...K?

When are YOU going to?

So you're asserting that because Iran does not like Israel, that give Israel (nuclear rogue) the right to insist that Iran give up nuclear energy (not nuclear rogue)

Can you elaborate on this opinion?

Carpe Diem

[Alias 0]

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If you were to research the Hasbara 2009 Global Dictionary you'd find that you not sticking to the topic and instead derailing at every opportunity is very consistent with that text. My connecting these observations is just that. An observation based on countless debates.

Now if you could just prove that I'd ever even heard of this manual or dictionary or whatever prior to our interaction, you might even have a point - as it is, YOU are the one doing the derailing.

As for "countless debates" - do you use the same bogus tactics in all the rest of them, too, or is it restricted to this one?

So, you think my fact of Israel being the record holder of Human Rights violations with the UN to be an opinion? Why is that? Can you not address the question in a non insulting, non derailing fashion?

Wiki lists 224 UN resolutions "concerning" Israel (up until January 2009). I can't find any such list of resolutions against the Palestinians ...or any UN-cited Human Rights violations against them despite repeated wars, missile attacks and terrorist bombings against Israel. It's probably just me, but I think this says more about the UN than it does about either Israel or the Palestinians. Their credibility is in the toilet as far as I'm concerned. So, yes ...Israel is the record holder at the UN. Go figure!

Well, I guess the UN see's the difference between a rag tag "militia" using coffee cans taped together with lit fuses - killing or injuring 1 in 1000 attempts and Israel stealing land, falsely imprisoning civilians including children, targeting through strategic strikes against innocent civilians with Apache's and M1 Tanks, satellite targeting, surrounding Gaza and basically pulling off a modern day seize. I might be wrong. You're right I guess. Israel is perfect and the entire world is wrong. Okay. I concede

Carpe Diem

[Alias 0]

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Ive been pondering this question lately ; Why does Israel have a "Right To Exist" on the Palestinians turf?

Any ideas?

Religious fanaticism and political influence bought in the US. Combined with intense media black outs on events likely to tarnish the image of Israel and the bolstering of news pertaining to any of Israels enemies. Just a hunch

An extremely organized and well financed effort to say the least.

Carpe Diem

[muff528 3]

It seems that there is a break in the ranks over whether an independent Palestine should be created.

[Thedivingdog 0]

"Nuclear rogue", I like that. Can you define what exactly a "nuclear rogue" is? Sounds to me like they are lobbing nukes left and right! Has Gaza been vaporized?? How about Syria? Iran?? Lebanon?? Anybody??

Also, we must be living on different planets, because most of the news about Israel I see is pretty skewed against Israel. Must just be me though...

[Alias 0]

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It seems that there is a break in the ranks over whether an independent Palestine should be created.

Tell ya what, to be fair I'll address any accusation or "fact" you claim that I feel is incorrect or pointless. But only after you do the same

You are implying that because a nuclear rogue nation is verbally attacked by a nation that works within the confines of international nuclear scrutiny, the rouge nation has the right to insist a signer and participant of the NPT be stripped of any nuclear energy capabilities?

Is that your reasoning?

Carpe Diem

[Alias 0]

A nuclear rogue is a notion that posses nuclear weapons of mass destruction and refuses any international bodies to monitor the nuclear program. A nuclear rogue is any nation that posses nuclear weapons of mass destruction and refuses to sign the NPT.

rogue:no longer obedient, belonging, or accepted and hence not controllable or answerable; deviating, renegade:

Rogue State: a state that conducts its policy in a dangerously unpredictable way, disregarding international law or diplomacy.

Sounds like I nailed it no?

Carpe Diem

[mnealtx 0]

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Stick to the debate...K?

When are YOU going to?

So you're asserting that because Iran does not like Israel, that give Israel (nuclear rogue) the right to insist that Iran give up nuclear energy (not nuclear rogue)

Can you elaborate on this opinion?

Asked/answered above - Imadinnerjacket's remarks are easily enough found.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Alias 0]

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Stick to the debate...K?

When are YOU going to?

So you're asserting that because Iran does not like Israel, that give Israel (nuclear rogue) the right to insist that Iran give up nuclear energy (not nuclear rogue)

Can you elaborate on this opinion?

Asked/answered above - Imadinnerjacket's remarks are easily enough found.

Huh? You can't answer? But you made the attack on my comments. Not the other poster. You need to answer. Or run, Forrest, run. You are the one that's insinuated that I'm not trying to debate you. But rather trying to derail the topic. Yet here I am politely debating a wall again. No valid responses.

It's obvious you are neither equipped for this debate nor posses the skills to have a debate without personal attacks and childish remarks.

That's okay though. Just don't jump in water over your head unless you can swim. It's a waste of time for all involved.

Thanks for playing though.....

Carpe Diem

[winsor 186]

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A nuclear rogue is a notion that posses nuclear weapons of mass destruction and refuses any international bodies to monitor the nuclear program. A nuclear rogue is any nation that posses nuclear weapons of mass destruction and refuses to sign the NPT.

rogue:no longer obedient, belonging, or accepted and hence not controllable or answerable; deviating, renegade:

Rogue State: a state that conducts its policy in a dangerously unpredictable way, disregarding international law or diplomacy.

Sounds like I nailed it no?

How dare you describe the United States in such unflattering terms?!

Okay, I'll admit we are the only country that has ever had the bad taste to actually prove that Nukes are in fact WMDs by incinerating a couple of cities, but it seemed like a good idea at the time. How were we to know that Curtis W. LeMay's stated policy of "reducing the Japanese population by half" (largely successful) had so inured the Japanese population to massacre from above that they basically shrugged it off as another couple of cities to add to the tally, and that it was only the Soviet Union declaring war on Japan that convinced the Diet to surrender to MacArthur?

Compared to the USA, Israel is one of the kindest, gentlest nations about (okay, so that's not saying much).

What do you recommend? Should Israel treat Muhammadeans with the same courtesy as Jews get in, say, Saudi Arabia? Hey, fair's fair.

[muff528 3]

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It seems that there is a break in the ranks over whether an independent Palestine should be created.

Tell ya what, to be fair I'll address any accusation or "fact" you claim that I feel is incorrect or pointless. But only after you do the same

You are implying that because a nuclear rogue nation is verbally attacked by a nation that works within the confines of international nuclear scrutiny, the rouge nation has the right to insist a signer and participant of the NPT be stripped of any nuclear energy capabilities?

Is that your reasoning?

I haven't stated my views about nuclear proliferation in the Middle East in these forums. However, any country that signs the NPT should be bound by that promise. Personally, my opinion is that the country of Iran that signed the treaty in 1968 is not the same country of Iran that exists today and is not bound by that treaty. They are free to pursue that technology and should be prepared to accept any consequences of that pursuit when taken in context of making existential threats against another country.