Awesome things "god" does.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

Quote

Here's the real problem: You don't want to believe. Because, if you did, then you'd be accountable to what it says. You'd be accountable to a God who has laws. You could no longer just do what you want with no consequences or accountability to anyone other than yourself. That goes against our nature (our fallen nature, that is). That's why the Bible says that we actively "suppress the truth in unrighteousness." As it is, you stand guilty before a thrice holy God and there are consequences for your actions either in this life or in eternity when you die. That is an inconvenient truth that someone would rather forget, ignore, or deny rather than face.

It's not a "want to believe".

I hold myself accountable to God's laws.
And as an imperfect human, I fall short and am in need of forgiveness (which I have asked for and presumably been given).

And I don't deny the overall message of the Bible.

I just can't reconcile the inconsistencies of the Bible with the evidence of science.

I can accept that the Bible was written by (imperfect) humans, in a time when science was barely understood (There are 4 books to the NT because there were 4 directions, and 4 elements). It was a poor attempt to explain what was percieved at the time. And has a lot of errors in it.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[maadmax 0]

can assume that because it says its from "God" that it must be.

You guys are very good at rationalizing and ignoring the inconsistencies in the Bible.

[beowulf 1]

So has the Koran and many other religious books. It doesn't make the Bible any more credible.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

Quote

can assume that because it says its from "God" that it must be.

You guys are very good at rationalizing and ignoring the inconsistencies in the Bible.

What the Bible says is important, and the apparent contradictions need to be sorted out. But what It does is much more profound. Despite the nit picking by those who have blinded themselves, the Bible has given a way of hope and salvation to countless millions of people throughout the ages. Myself included.

[beowulf 1]

Quote

the Bible has given a way of hope and salvation to countless millions of people throughout the ages.

I would also like to point out that there is no evidence of anybody being saved from anything by the Bible. There is no evidence of any life after death or of any soul or spirit that lives on. So what you have is a lot of claims with no evidence.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

Quote

Quote

the Bible has given a way of hope and salvation to countless millions of people throughout the ages.

I would also like to point out that there is no evidence of anybody being saved from anything by the Bible. There is no evidence of any life after death or of any soul or spirit that lives on. So what you have is a lot of claims with no evidence.

More spiritual salvaion while still alive than being saved from "eternal damnation" IMO.

I know quite a few people who "found God" and were "saved". Saved from a life of despair and depravity. Saved from a lonely and horrible death.

Saved by finding a spritual way of life. Some through the Bible, some through other means.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[billvon 2,395]

>What the Bible says is important, and the apparent contradictions need to be sorted
>out. But what It does is much more profound. Despite the nit picking by those who
>have blinded themselves, the Bible has given a way of hope and salvation to countless
>millions of people throughout the ages.

Well put. The Bible, while surely not perfect, can be a great guide to those who believe the principles it espouses. The key, IMO, is seeing it as a general guide and not as an infallible canon of undeniable truths.

[billvon 2,395]

>No serious examination of an ancient literary work is performed in the careless,
>non-contextual, broadstroke manner you seem to want to apply to the books of the
>Bible.

I do not claim that any analysis of the Bible was done in a 'careless' manner. It was done quite carefully by people who knew that the survival of their religion (and sometimes themselves) required a very specific, very carefully worded interpretation of the Bible.

Nothing makes you examine a book carefully - and draw exactly the accepted conclusions - like the threat of banishment or execution as a heretic if you do not come up with the "correct" answer.

[Shotgun 1]

Quote

You could no longer just do what you want with no consequences or accountability to anyone other than yourself.

Man, I've been trying for 40 years to do whatever I want without having any consequences. But life just doesn't seem to work that way for me, or for anyone else that I know. So if you're aware of someone who has figured out how to escape the consequences of life, please send them my way, because I would love to learn how to do that.

[billvon 2,395]

>Here's the real problem: You don't want to believe. Because, if you did, then you'd be accountable to what it says.

By that measure, your problem is that you really, really want to believe that you won't die, that your spirit will live forever. You want to believe that so badly you will believe in a religion that promises you your spirit will live forever, in exchange for your support of it.

I understand that feeling. It's a mighty powerful desire, since death is scary. But it's a poor basis for belief, IMO.

[maadmax 0]

Quote

the Bible has given a way of hope and salvation to countless millions of people throughout the ages.

I would also like to point out that there is no evidence of anybody being saved from anything by the Bible. There is no evidence of any life after death or of any soul or spirit that lives on. So what you have is a lot of claims with no evidence.

[maadmax 0]

Man, I've been trying for 40 years to do whatever I want without having any consequences. But life just doesn't seem to work that way for me, or for anyone else that I know. So if you're aware of someone who has figured out how to escape the consequences of life, please send them my way, because I would love to learn how to do that.

It is easy as pie. "Deny yourself, pick up your cross, and follow Him."

[Shotgun 1]

Quote

Man, I've been trying for 40 years to do whatever I want without having any consequences. But life just doesn't seem to work that way for me, or for anyone else that I know. So if you're aware of someone who has figured out how to escape the consequences of life, please send them my way, because I would love to learn how to do that.

It is easy as pie. "Deny yourself, pick up your cross, and follow Him."

I don't think that falls into the category of doing whatever I want.

I was just poking fun at the idea that someone who doesn't believe in the Bible can go around doing whatever he wants with no consequences.

[isle 0]

Quote

Quote

I say he's a dick

A 'loving god' wouldn't do this.
I don't think "he" sees love the same way we do.

Looks like to me a dump truck did it.

If you believe in god then god did it or at least the killing had gods blessing, because god is almighty and can make or prevent anything to happen.

[johnjyuuu 0]

There is no god. If there was a god, things like this wouldn't happen.


http://www.lovelydisgrace.com/2011/09/just-another-victim-of-fire.html

[jclalor 12]

Quote

Quote

There is no god. If there was a god, things like this wouldn't happen.


http://www.lovelydisgrace.com/2011/09/just-another-victim-of-fire.html

Your wrong, it's either:

Being a victim of free will
the devil's fault
A test of the boy's faith
God punishing the boy or his parents
A lack of faith

God's seems to be only responsible for rainbows, puppies, and winning high school football teams.

[JeanJeanie 0]

The real problem is I tried to believe. Tried to feel the holy spirit move inside me. I realized I was faking it out of fear of hell-fire and brimstone. So I stepped away.
Why is it that when you don't believe in God you are somehow 'fallen' in nature, unrighteous?
I live ethically and honestly. I live well aware of the consequences my living has and how far it resonates at times.
If I am only guilty for being true to myself, to those around me and not living a lie, then so be it.
I am not worried about my salvation.

~~We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly~~MLK

[Meso 38]

Quote

Here's the real problem: You don't want to believe. Because, if you did, then you'd be accountable to what it says. You'd be accountable to a God who has laws. You could no longer just do what you want with no consequences or accountability to anyone other than yourself. That goes against our nature (our fallen nature, that is). That's why the Bible says that we actively "suppress the truth in unrighteousness." As it is, you stand guilty before a thrice holy God and there are consequences for your actions either in this life or in eternity when you die. That is an inconvenient truth that someone would rather forget, ignore, or deny rather than face.

Haha, that's almost as pathetic as saying that if there were no laws everyone would run around raping and killing everyone else. Quite an ignorant and baseless comment.

As the little saying goes: "Being a Christian is walking into a bank and deciding not to rob it because God will punish you for it. Being an atheist is walking into a bank and deciding not to rob it because it's a dick thing to do."

One doesn't need to be religious to act in a kind manner that avoids harming others, the idea that one does, just shows how lost one is to the real world outside of their religion. If your flawed little theory had any substance, Christians would be the only people in the world who act with kind nature, and yet that's not the case.

When animals share food, does this mean that they had to be religious to do that?

Why is it that people somehow tie common sense and basic human emotions and desires to religion. Just a misinformed way of trying to make the non-religious people seem like 'bad guys'. Your little argument holds no validity at all.

Furthermore, your statement of "You choose not to believe because you will be held responsible" is just as an accurate statement as me saying you don't believe in Santa Clause because you don't want to have to be put on his 'naughty' list and you're just scared of his judgement.

I would love to believe, I'm sure most people would prefer an eternity of joy over just dying. But as per above, it doesn't matter how much you want to believe in Santa, once you're aware of the fact that he doesn't exist, no amount of desire to have him exist is going to be able to convince you otherwise.

[Coreece 190]

Quote

As the little saying goes: "Being a Christian is walking into a bank and deciding not to rob it because God will punish you for it. Being an atheist is walking into a bank and deciding not to rob it because it's a dick thing to do."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGmbMDnhgrU

Talk about an ignorant and baseless comment...

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[normiss 622]

Like religion itself.
Oh the irony.

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

There is no god. If there was a god, things like this wouldn't happen.


http://www.lovelydisgrace.com/2011/09/just-another-victim-of-fire.html

Oh, you poor, poor misguided people.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Meso 38]

Well considering I am quoting something that I have seen mentioned a few times by people on facebook, it's still a saying. That's the gist of it anyway, the phrasing may be slightly different.

And trying to nitpick at the term I used will not be able to hide it's validity. It's exactly in line with what the person I addressed was saying, that the reason they behave 'well' is because of God and they think that without God people will act maliciously. And it's the people who believe God is holding them back from committing atrocities that people need to watch out for, they're the risk to society, not the non-believers who have no urge to be a bad person.

But you go ahead and address the meaningless semantics.

[degis 0]

Hello, I'm new to this site and just wanted to drop a comment in this thread from a Swedish perspective.

Jesus promised the end of all wicked people, right? Well, Odin promised the end of all Ice Giants and I don't see any of them around anymore... Just saying

Discuss!

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

As the little saying goes: "Being a Christian is walking into a bank and deciding not to rob it because God will punish you for it. Being an atheist is walking into a bank and deciding not to rob it because it's a dick thing to do."

One little problem that destroys your theory....there's a small difference between God's laws and Man's laws.
Apple/oranges.

Quote

If your flawed little theory had any substance, Christians would be the only people in the world who act with kind nature, and yet that's not the case.

Waaaaaaay off the mark. I wonder what is making you think that the combination of how one behaves and having religious beliefs results in a disclaimer for the aspects of those beliefs.

Quote

Why is it that people somehow tie common sense and basic human emotions and desires to religion.

I get the feeling that you really don't understand the basic concept of "religion"...of any type.

Quote

Just a misinformed way of trying to make the non-religious people seem like 'bad guys'.

Hmmmmm...because some bozos do that, you blame the religion itself? Why not focus on the bozos that attempt to make you feel that way? Do you really think that any religion is guidebook on how to make non-believers feel like "bad guys"?

Quote

Furthermore, your statement of "You choose not to believe because you will be held responsible" is just as an accurate statement as me saying you don't believe in Santa Clause because you don't want to have to be put on his 'naughty' list and you're just scared of his judgement.

Well, you missed the point. "held responsible" in this case means abiding by the tents of the religion. It has nothing to do with why.

If one commits to any religion, one commits to abiding by the tenets of that religion. It has nothing to do with WHY that decision was made.

Your scenario assumes that making the decision to commit to any religion is because you fear its "judgement", If that is true in any individual case, that person blew it and should have stayed the atheist or agnostic.

I would love to believe, I'm sure most people would prefer an eternity of joy over just dying. But as per above, it doesn't matter how much you want to believe in Santa, once you're aware of the fact that he doesn't exist, .....

[beowulf 1]

I don't know about that. I have met some pretty cruel people that I would consider wicked. I have never seen any ice giants... so which god has the better track record?