Awesome things "god" does.

[Meso 38]

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If there is a God, he is a fucking dick....

That's been my take on things. If he does exist and is as the bible paints him, I'd much rather spend eternity in hell. I won't be intimidated into bowing down to a sadistic narcissist, call me proud but that's just not an option.

Yet the whole Satan entity gets all the grief when someone is suffering. It'd be quite easy to flip it around and paint Satan as a good guy and God as the mean enemy.

I'm not big into following people who require one to have faith and blindly follow. Sounds like a used car salesman or a pyramid scheme.

[flashvortx 0]

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no one blames 'him', we are questioning his existence given the situation.

so hardships make us stronger? Then should we kill and slaughter more innocent people then to become even stronger? Oh wait, we are already doing that.

If there is a God, he is a fucking dick....+1

A - This thread is entirely about blaming God.

B - Killing and slaughtering innocent people wouldn't make you stronger since the hardship wouldn't be on you. If everyone loved their neighbor as they love themself as I believe God wants, this world would be excellent. It's the horrible people on this planet that make it awful.

[winsor 186]

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no one blames 'him', we are questioning his existence given the situation.

so hardships make us stronger? Then should we kill and slaughter more innocent people then to become even stronger? Oh wait, we are already doing that.

If there is a God, he is a fucking dick....+1

A - This thread is entirely about blaming God.

B - Killing and slaughtering innocent people wouldn't make you stronger since the hardship wouldn't be on you. If everyone loved their neighbor as they love themself as I believe God wants, this world would be excellent. It's the horrible people on this planet that make it awful.

Not hardly - the thread is about the concept that gods are the stuff of fairy tales.

Saying that there was no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow does not imply that one is mad at leprechauns so much as suggesting that they are figaments of the imagination.

[flashvortx 0]

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If there is a God, he is a fucking dick....

That's been my take on things. If he does exist and is as the bible paints him, I'd much rather spend eternity in hell. I won't be intimidated into bowing down to a sadistic narcissist, call me proud but that's just not an option.

Yet the whole Satan entity gets all the grief when someone is suffering. It'd be quite easy to flip it around and paint Satan as a good guy and God as the mean enemy.

I'm not big into following people who require one to have faith and blindly follow. Sounds like a used car salesman or a pyramid scheme.

Well here we are again.

May I assume you would paint Satan as the good guy because with him there isn't really much guilt for doing the things you want? If so, I can obviously see how so many would be into that. To me, he is like a crappy parent that isn't around much and lets his kids do whatever. On the other hand, to me, God is an awesome father that has the big picture in mind and is trying to grow a mature and complete adult. Whether or not you're a dad, I can't imagine you would think it smart to give your kid anything they want whenever they ask.

[normiss 620]

Are you claiming there is guilt associated with your god and you doing what you what?
I'm unfamiliar with this silly ritual or concept.

WTF would I care enough about what some make believe friend thinks about how I live MY life???



My parents provided me with everything I needed to develop and grow into a mature and complete adult.
I'm taking my time though.

[ChrisL 2]

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It's the horrible people on this planet that make it awful.

So why did God make so many horrible people?

__

My mighty steed

[Meso 38]

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May I assume you would paint Satan as the good guy because with him there isn't really much guilt for doing the things you want?

Not really, considering I think they're both fictional characters I gain nothing from painting either one any way.

What I was getting at is that as soon as one believes God is what the bible says he is, it's easy to justify anything he does, regardless how cruel and inhumane what he does may be. One can pass it up with a "It's his will, don't question it" or a "He is far too powerful for us to understand his plans".

And if God had the attributes of Satan, one could still paint him to be this great and almighty being. Sure he would supposedly be shifty and sly. But that could be passed off with a "It's his will, don't question it" or a "He is far too powerful for us to understand his plans".

It's basically just a universal 'get out of jail free' card for people who can't explain why God allows something to happen.

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If so, I can obviously see how so many would be into that. To me, he is like a crappy parent that isn't around much and lets his kids do whatever. On the other hand, to me, God is an awesome father that has the big picture in mind and is trying to grow a mature and complete adult.

To be God is a parent who by looking at his actions, beats his children and tortures them so that they will listen. After which he then looks at his other children and says "You see that? He disobeyed me... If you ever disobey me the same will happen to you". He is quite frankly a bully.

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Whether or not you're a dad, I can't imagine you would think it smart to give your kid anything they want whenever they ask.

While I am not a father, I believe that parenting should be a combination of understanding and a relationship, while still holding a firm hand. And when your child fails to initialize that relationship with you, you should reach out to them in any way you can, you should not take God's way and instead of doing anything you can to initialize that relationship- when he fails to, you threaten him with tails of how bad he will suffer if he doesn't, and when he fails to see your side that you should try your hardest to show him what you mean. Not tell him "You have to have faith in what I say, it's your choice in the end, but if you don't trust what I say - your life is going to be hell, you will suffer, and while I'll have the power to help you along the way, because you turned your back on me I will not help you, I will watch you suffer."

[jaybird18c 4]

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no one blames 'him', we are questioning his existence given the situation.

so hardships make us stronger? Then should we kill and slaughter more innocent people then to become even stronger? Oh wait, we are already doing that.

No amount of "proof" or argumentation will be sufficient for you. No matter what is said or shown to you will change your heart. I would argue that you will not and even can not believe or have saving faith in Christ without divine interevention. All you are doing is acting like the rebel in the King's courtyard that you are. Every breath you take is on loan from God and you curse him with every breath. There are very good theological reasons for why good and bad happen to everyone (both believers and non-believers). That doesn't matter because you have made up your mind and nothing is going to change it. I admit that the same is true for me. However, it is a lot more complicated than just saying "God did it" (with regard to why things happen as they do) and "placing blame."

[devildog 0]

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What I was getting at is that as soon as one believes God is what the bible says he is, it's easy to justify anything he does, regardless how cruel and inhumane what he does may be. One can pass it up with a "It's his will, don't question it" or a "He is far too powerful for us to understand his plans".

By the same token, when one believes they know everything and something happens against what they would do, it's easy to condemn anyone that differs from you. Or plainly put, when you assume an omnipotent being would act as you would, and then doesn't, it's easy to claim God is lesser (or fictional, because if He was real, He'd do what I'd do).

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While I am not a father, I believe that parenting should be a combination of understanding and a relationship, while still holding a firm hand. And when your child fails to initialize that relationship with you, you should reach out to them in any way you can, you should not take God's way and instead of doing anything you can to initialize that relationship- when he fails to, you threaten him with tails of how bad he will suffer if he doesn't, and when he fails to see your side that you should try your hardest to show him what you mean. Not tell him "You have to have faith in what I say, it's your choice in the end, but if you don't trust what I say - your life is going to be hell, you will suffer, and while I'll have the power to help you along the way, because you turned your back on me I will not help you, I will watch you suffer."

As long as we're talking children analogies, when we first started brushing our daughter's teeth, she screamed bloody murder. I'm sure if anyone overheard, they'd think we were beating her to death. I don't doubt one bit our daughter though we were the most horrible, cruel parents at the time of her meltdowns, thrashings, etc. And as much as I'd like to be able to explain her why things had to be so (brushing her teeth), and why in the end, she would be a thousand times better for it, I couldn't as she wasn't capable of such understanding. In the same way, if we assume for argument's sake, some sort of divine exists (omnipotent, omniscient, etc) the gap in knowledge and power is so vast that that god will undoubtedly do things that are ultimately "for the best" that we both fail to understand and think is quite horrid due to our limited scope of everything.

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[winsor 186]

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no one blames 'him', we are questioning his existence given the situation.

so hardships make us stronger? Then should we kill and slaughter more innocent people then to become even stronger? Oh wait, we are already doing that.

No amount of "proof" or argumentation will be sufficient for you. No matter what is said or shown to you will change your heart. I would argue that you will not and even can not believe or have saving faith in Christ without divine interevention. All you are doing is acting like the rebel in the King's courtyard that you are. Every breath you take is on loan from God and you curse him with every breath. There are very good theological reasons for why good and bad happen to everyone (both believers and non-believers). That doesn't matter because you have made up your mind and nothing is going to change it. I admit that the same is true for me. However, it is a lot more complicated than just saying "God did it" (with regard to why things happen as they do) and "placing blame."

No, TK just doubts that which is patent bullshit.

If there was one shred of evidence to the contrary (without resorting to a litany of logical fallacies), he would consider it.

[jclalor 12]

As long as we're talking children analogies, when we first started brushing our daughter's teeth, she screamed bloody murder. I'm sure if anyone overheard, they'd think we were beating her to death. I don't doubt one bit our daughter though we were the most horrible, cruel parents at the time of her meltdowns, thrashings, etc. And as much as I'd like to be able to explain her why things had to be so (brushing her teeth), and why in the end, she would be a thousand times better for it, I couldn't as she wasn't capable of such understanding. In the same way, if we assume for argument's sake, some sort of divine exists (omnipotent, omniscient, etc) the gap in knowledge and power is so vast that that god will undoubtedly do things that are ultimately "for the best" that we both fail to understand and think is quite horrid due to our limited scope of everything.

[Coreece 189]

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As long as we're talking children analogies, when we first started brushing our daughter's teeth, she screamed bloody murder. I'm sure if anyone overheard, they'd think we were beating her to death. I don't doubt one bit our daughter though we were the most horrible, cruel parents at the time of her meltdowns, thrashings, etc. And as much as I'd like to be able to explain her why things had to be so (brushing her teeth), and why in the end, she would be a thousand times better for it, I couldn't as she wasn't capable of such understanding. In the same way, if we assume for argument's sake, some sort of divine exists (omnipotent, omniscient, etc) the gap in knowledge and power is so vast that that god will undoubtedly do things that are ultimately "for the best" that we both fail to understand and think is quite horrid due to our limited scope of everything.

I like the response of Ivan, to his brother Aloysha in the Dostoevsky's novel 'The Brothers Karamazov" in response that there maybe a reason in the end that will justify all the suffering that goes on in
the world.

" I'd rather remain with my unrequited suffering and my un-quenched indignation, even if I am wrong. Besides, they have put too high a price on harmony; we can't pay so much for admission. And therefore I hasten to return my ticket. And it is my duty, if only as an honest man, to return it as far a head of time as possible. Which is what I am doing. It's not that i'ts not that I don't accept God, Alyosha, I just more respectfully return to him the ticket."

[jclalor 12]

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No amount of "proof" or argumentation will be sufficient for you.

The irony meter is is off the scale.

[freethefly 6]

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"proof"

There is no proof of any such god. On the other hand, there is proof that the bible is wrong about a lot, e.g. age of the planet, humankind, and natural disaster.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[devildog 0]

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"proof"

There is no proof of any such god. On the other hand, there is proof that the bible is wrong about a lot, e.g. age of the planet, humankind, and natural disaster.

The bible never dates the planet, as much as some people, believers and not, would like to claim that it does.

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[devildog 0]

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As long as we're talking children analogies, when we first started brushing our daughter's teeth, she screamed bloody murder. I'm sure if anyone overheard, they'd think we were beating her to death. I don't doubt one bit our daughter though we were the most horrible, cruel parents at the time of her meltdowns, thrashings, etc. And as much as I'd like to be able to explain her why things had to be so (brushing her teeth), and why in the end, she would be a thousand times better for it, I couldn't as she wasn't capable of such understanding. In the same way, if we assume for argument's sake, some sort of divine exists (omnipotent, omniscient, etc) the gap in knowledge and power is so vast that that god will undoubtedly do things that are ultimately "for the best" that we both fail to understand and think is quite horrid due to our limited scope of everything.

I like the response of Ivan, to his brother Aloysha in the Dostoevsky's novel 'The Brothers Karamazov" in response that there maybe a reason in the end that will justify all the suffering that goes on in
the world.

" I'd rather remain with my unrequited suffering and my un-quenched indignation, even if I am wrong. Besides, they have put too high a price on harmony; we can't pay so much for admission. And therefore I hasten to return my ticket. And it is my duty, if only as an honest man, to return it as far a head of time as possible. Which is what I am doing. It's not that I don't accept God, Alyosha, I just more respectfully return to him the ticket."

[ChrisL 2]

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No amount of "proof" or argumentation will be sufficient for you.

Thats very easy to say given the total absence of any proof that we have now.

I'd like an opportunity to test that theory.

Show us some real, tangible, concrete proof of the existence of God and then we'll see if its sufficient or not.

I have an open mind and I dont believe I'm 100% right all the time. I sure as hell dont believe that humans are the top of the evolutionary ladder in the universe and that theres much that I dont (or cant) understand. If I'm presented with incontrovertible proof I will certainly take it into consideration and possibly change my position.

Keep in mind that the bits of "proof" that are generally offered are so incredibly open to different interpretations that they do not constitute proof of anything at all.

As of this writing, I do not believe in God as an omnipotent, omniscient being that has a great plan
that we are all a part of. I did believe this as a child
but I do not believe this any longer.

__

My mighty steed

[Coreece 189]

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If I'm presented with incontrovertible proof I will certainly take it into consideration and possibly change my position.

If God were to reveal his Shekinah Glory to non believers, wouldn't they still think he's a "fucking dick," or will they shit their pants and drop to their knees and repent in a pool of piss? That is the question...

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[devildog 0]

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If I'm presented with incontrovertible proof I will certainly take it into consideration and possibly change my position.

There's probably only 1 thing in life that's ever 100% certain, the famous, "I think, therefore I am." Everything else has varying degrees of uncertainty to it. Life is filled and lived daily with more uncertainty than most people realize.

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[tkhayes 124]

I call bullshit when I see it. If you see that as a fault, then that is your problem...

Do you believe in the science behind DNA? Just curious.... That's the kind of proof that I like

[winsor 186]

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If I'm presented with incontrovertible proof I will certainly take it into consideration and possibly change my position.

If God were to reveal his Shekinah Glory to non believers, wouldn't they still think he's a "fucking dick," or will they shit their pants and drop to their knees and repent in a pool of piss? That is the question...

Consider it revealed.

Judge an artist by his works - which makes your deity du jour an underachiever, at best.

[Coreece 189]

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If I'm presented with incontrovertible proof I will certainly take it into consideration and possibly change my position.

If God were to reveal his Shekinah Glory to non believers, wouldn't they still think he's a "fucking dick," or will they shit their pants and drop to their knees and repent in a pool of piss? That is the question...

Consider it revealed.

Judge an artist by his works - which makes your deity du jour an underachiever, at best.

Who'd be so foolish to judge against a work of art before completion? Didn't you ever watch Bob Ross?

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[billvon 2,384]

>If God were to reveal his Shekinah Glory to non believers, wouldn't
>they still think he's a "fucking dick," or will they shit their pants and drop
>to their knees and repent in a pool of piss? That is the question...

Probably the latter. Of course, if Shiva revealed himself to you in all his glory, I have a feeling you'd do the same sort of repenting/eliminating thing.

[Coreece 189]

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>If God were to reveal his Shekinah Glory to non believers, wouldn't
>they still think he's a "fucking dick," or will they shit their pants and drop
>to their knees and repent in a pool of piss? That is the question...

Probably the latter.

Why?

Why wouldn't they still think he's a dick? Did they already forget about the the little girl?

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[billvon 2,384]

>Why?

Cause reality generally trumps posts on an Internet forum.