If the Top 25 Hedge Fund Managers Paid Taxes Like You and Me, We'd Cut 44 Billion of the National Deficit

[dreamdancer 0]

it should be simple for these 25 to get together and agree to pay the same tax as anyone else...

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The top 25 hedge fund managers in the United States collectively earned $22 billion last year, and yet they have their own cushy set of tax rules. If they operated under the same rules that apply to other people -- police officers, for example, or teachers -- the country could cut its national deficit by as much as $44 billion in the next ten years.

We're not talking about "raising taxes on the rich," either -- although that's an excellent idea. (There's an automated petition here that will encourage your representative to do just that.) This money could be raised simply by removing a tax loophole that protects hedge fund managers. And that's not counting all the other people who run hedge funds. We'd get that $44 billion from just 25 people. They can certainly afford it, and at least one of them (George Soros, #2 on the list) undoubtedly would approve.

http://www.alternet.org/story/151479/if_the_top_25_hedge_fund_managers_paid_taxes_like_you_and_me%2C_we%27d_cut_44_billion_of_the_national_deficit_/

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[DARK 0]

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it should be simple for these 25 to get together and agree to pay the same tax as anyone else...

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The top 25 hedge fund managers in the United States collectively earned $22 billion last year, and yet they have their own cushy set of tax rules. If they operated under the same rules that apply to other people -- police officers, for example, or teachers -- the country could cut its national deficit by as much as $44 billion in the next ten years.

We're not talking about "raising taxes on the rich," either -- although that's an excellent idea. (There's an automated petition here that will encourage your representative to do just that.) This money could be raised simply by removing a tax loophole that protects hedge fund managers. And that's not counting all the other people who run hedge funds. We'd get that $44 billion from just 25 people. They can certainly afford it, and at least one of them (George Soros, #2 on the list) undoubtedly would approve.

http://www.alternet.org/story/151479/if_the_top_25_hedge_fund_managers_paid_taxes_like_you_and_me%2C_we%27d_cut_44_billion_of_the_national_deficit_/

How much tax do they pay right now?

[dreamdancer 0]

obviously not enough

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[rehmwa 2]

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The top 25 hedge fund managers in the United States collectively earned $22 billion last year, {{but paid like DD thinks they should}} -- the country could cut its national deficit by as much as $44 billion

fair = 200% tax rate?


edit: Whoops "over the next 10 years"

so fair = additional 20% tax rate?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[DARK 0]

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obviously not enough

How do you know? Because some article says they 'could' get another 44billion from them. Guess what they 'could' probably get half a trillion off everyone if they raised the income tax rate by a percent or two, does that make it right?

[rushmc 18]

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it should be simple for these 25 to get together and agree to pay the same tax as anyone else...

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The top 25 hedge fund managers in the United States collectively earned $22 billion last year, and yet they have their own cushy set of tax rules. If they operated under the same rules that apply to other people -- police officers, for example, or teachers -- the country could cut its national deficit by as much as $44 billion in the next ten years.

We're not talking about "raising taxes on the rich," either -- although that's an excellent idea. (There's an automated petition here that will encourage your representative to do just that.) This money could be raised simply by removing a tax loophole that protects hedge fund managers. And that's not counting all the other people who run hedge funds. We'd get that $44 billion from just 25 people. They can certainly afford it, and at least one of them (George Soros, #2 on the list) undoubtedly would approve.

http://www.alternet.org/story/151479/if_the_top_25_hedge_fund_managers_paid_taxes_like_you_and_me%2C_we%27d_cut_44_billion_of_the_national_deficit_/

You just dont get it

If they paid the same rate you and I did the Treasury would be getting 10 times less the amount of your misleading post

naughty boy

your big green monster is showing yet again

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[charlie5 0]

44 billion to piss away an more useless crap.

You need to take the bottle away from the baby at some point, otherwise it turns into a fat stumbling toddler that whines about not having enough to suckle on when really it should try to cut back.

The feather butts bounce off ya like raindrops hitting a battle-star when they come in too fast...kinda funny to watch. - airtwardo

[lawrocket 3]

40% of US citizens don't pay income taxes. I'm afraid that if they paid taxes "like the rest of us" we'd have to determine what "the rest of us" is.

Also note the insignificance of $44 billion when deficits are, oh, one thousand three hundred billion dollars.

I do, however, appreciate your showing that taxing the wealthy won't do any good. If you were to liquidate all assets of the ten wealthiest people in America (according to Forbes 2010 list) you'd end up with a grand total of $270 billion. Now, that's not exactly chump change. But it would be less that 20% of the DEFICIT for 2010! The top 20 are worth a combined $407 billion.

Note - how much did No 14 on the list pay? That's Hedge Fund manager George Soros.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[weekender 0]

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it should be simple for these 25 to get together and agree to pay the same tax as anyone else...

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The top 25 hedge fund managers in the United States collectively earned $22 billion last year, and yet they have their own cushy set of tax rules. If they operated under the same rules that apply to other people -- police officers, for example, or teachers -- the country could cut its national deficit by as much as $44 billion in the next ten years.

We're not talking about "raising taxes on the rich," either -- although that's an excellent idea. (There's an automated petition here that will encourage your representative to do just that.) This money could be raised simply by removing a tax loophole that protects hedge fund managers. And that's not counting all the other people who run hedge funds. We'd get that $44 billion from just 25 people. They can certainly afford it, and at least one of them (George Soros, #2 on the list) undoubtedly would approve.

http://www.alternet.org/story/151479/if_the_top_25_hedge_fund_managers_paid_taxes_like_you_and_me%2C_we%27d_cut_44_billion_of_the_national_deficit_/

They're paid a percentage of the capital gains of the fund. Is that considered income or capital gains? Right now the tax code says this is capital gains, just like a corporate exec that sees his stock price soar so he sells some and takes the capital gains.

So, the tax the hedge fund managers are paying is just like the rest of us.

Capital gains are the main part of executive management compensation, not actual income.

exactly. hedge funds managers pay the same and most likely more in Income Tax than most. They also pay the exact same in capital gains that everyone else pays.

people like to say that their capital gains are equal to income. it is not, according to the law. If people want to change the law so they pay more, fine. Then say that. Implying that they pay less in income tax is wrong and most likely purposely dishonest.

by the way, anyone here can do the same thing. take a bunch of your money and talk your friends into giving you more. invest it and take a %. thats all there is to it.

"The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird."
John Frusciante

[KidWicked 0]

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by the way, anyone here can do the same thing. take a bunch of your money and talk your friends into giving you more. invest it and take a %. thats all there is to it.

LOL. Really? That's *all* there is to it? LMFAO

Coreece: "You sound like some skinheads I know, but your prejudice is with Christians, not niggers..."

[kallend 1,623]

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it should be simple for these 25 to get together and agree to pay the same tax as anyone else...

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The top 25 hedge fund managers in the United States collectively earned $22 billion last year, and yet they have their own cushy set of tax rules. If they operated under the same rules that apply to other people -- police officers, for example, or teachers -- the country could cut its national deficit by as much as $44 billion in the next ten years.

We're not talking about "raising taxes on the rich," either -- although that's an excellent idea. (There's an automated petition here that will encourage your representative to do just that.) This money could be raised simply by removing a tax loophole that protects hedge fund managers. And that's not counting all the other people who run hedge funds. We'd get that $44 billion from just 25 people. They can certainly afford it, and at least one of them (George Soros, #2 on the list) undoubtedly would approve.

http://www.alternet.org/story/151479/if_the_top_25_hedge_fund_managers_paid_taxes_like_you_and_me%2C_we%27d_cut_44_billion_of_the_national_deficit_/

They're paid a percentage of the capital gains of the fund. Is that considered income or capital gains? Right now the tax code says this is capital gains, just like a corporate exec that sees his stock price soar so he sells some and takes the capital gains.

So, the tax the hedge fund managers are paying is just like the rest of us.

Capital gains are the main part of executive management compensation, not actual income.

THAT is the problem.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,623]

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The top 25 hedge fund managers in the United States collectively earned $22 billion last year, {{but paid like DD thinks they should}} -- the country could cut its national deficit by as much as $44 billion

fair = 200% tax rate?


edit: Whoops "over the next 10 years"

so fair = additional 20% tax rate?

WOW, I bet the GOP has never used that trick.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[funjumper101 15]

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exactly. hedge funds managers pay the same and most likely more in Income Tax than most. They also pay the exact same in capital gains that everyone else pays.

people like to say that their capital gains are equal to income. it is not, according to the law. If people want to change the law so they pay more, fine. Then say that. Implying that they pay less in income tax is wrong and most likely purposely dishonest.

by the way, anyone here can do the same thing. take a bunch of your money and talk your friends into giving you more. invest it and take a %. thats all there is to it.

Your understanding of the tax code is quite the parroting of the mass media marketing of what has has really hosed up the US economy. Take a step back and do some research on the history of the tax code and what has changed over the past thirty years. Don't forget to take into account just how well the economy did when taxes were radically different than they are now.

Capital Gains taxes are now at 15%. Capital gains used to be taxed at the same rates, and higher, than ordinary income. The concept that was well understood at the time is that this type of income has nothing to do with ones labor or effort. It has to do with timely inheritance of investments and property, as well as picking those tangible assets that are likely to gain value over time. This type of income can and should be taxed at rates comparable to ordinary income. The tax code has been greatly re-written to the benefit of the extremely wealthy and polically connected corporations. Taxes are at their lowest rate EVER. Tax evasion and off-shoring profits is now considered to be good business practices, not a morally odious and ethically evil practice, as it used to be. Corporations do everything they can to privatize revenue while pushing costs to government. We the people let them do this to us piecemeal, starting with Reagan, and moving right on to modern politics. Credulous people jump on the bandwagon for the so called party of small government that actually is the party for the extremely wealthy.
The rich are making out like bandits now. So are the major corporations. Due to the extremely low taxes these days, they have no incentive to put that money back into the economy. Remember tax writeoffs? The combination of high taxes and generous writeoffs = a booming economy. Force the wealthy to either pay higher taxes, or to spend the money. The writeoffs will be made up by the taxes paid on the money as it recirculates in the economy. The stagnant situation due to low taxes is the problem.

The cheating of the system by executives structuring their pay packages for more capital gains and less ordinary income will go away when the capital gains tax gets back to comparable levels as ordinary income. Taxes should be lowest on labor, as a percentage of income, and highest on capital gains, not the reverse, as it is now. The US economy worked a lot better when this was the case. And that was during my lifetime.

[champu 1]

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edit: Whoops "over the next 10 years"

WOW, I bet the GOP has never used that trick.

Politicians, pundits, etc. are all really bad about mixing and matching distributed and annual financial figures. Distributed actually makes more sense most of the time because legislation usually commits money over multiple years even though technically a budget still has to be put together every year. So even if you axe an $N billion program, that doesn't get you $N billion closer to an annual balanced budget.

The problem is that people rarely, if ever, talk about total cumulative projected deficit over the same time period which is really what you need to see what kind of a dent you're making.

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Capital Gains taxes are now at 15%.

This is a gross over-simplification. Not because it inaccurately describes what you don't like about the current situation, but because it hides better ways to fix the tax code without screwing over middle class people who make investments, and who keep more money out there in the economy because the preferential treatment this income receives at tax time. Not everyone who has to deal with capital gains taxes is an executive that light cigars with $100 bills.

Short term capital gains and unqualified dividends are already taxed at the standard income rates. The problem isn't that the long-term rates are too low, it's that the definition of long-term investments and qualified dividends is incredibly lame and easy to abuse. If you fixed the definition to make revolving capital-gains-only income "scams" impractical you could scratch your itch without screwing up the works.

[rehmwa 2]

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WOW, I bet the GOP has never used that trick.

seriously, what trick?

I don't think recommending a 20% increase is out of line with what you guys are advocating (for the uber-rich). Especially since you just won't give a number of your own.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 1,623]

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WOW, I bet the GOP has never used that trick.

seriously, what trick?

The savings over N years trick, where N>>1

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[weekender 0]

"Your understanding of the tax code is quite the parroting of the mass media marketing of what has has really hosed up the US economy. Take a step back and do some research on the history of the tax code and what has changed over the past thirty years. Don't forget to take into account just how well the economy did when taxes were radically different than they are now."

you need to reread my post. i was stating facts of the situation and not advocating for a side. i basically said hedgie bosses are taxed as capital gains and not income because thats the law. dont like it, change the law. i was addressing the OP who was purposely mingling the two to advcocate for raising taxes.

you post is honest. you want taxes raised. your implication i don't understand taxes, the economy and parrot the media is a bit off. but no hard feelings, you dont know me.

"The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird."
John Frusciante

[Bolas 5]

30 years ago the Republicans thought we could cut taxes some and that the GDP would stay the same or even increase slightly as what was lost in tax revenue would be made up for in people spending/investing more causing growth.

However, in order to get this passed, the Republicans had to make too many deals with Democrats which greatly increased the budget which made it unsustainable.

What I wonder is had the tax rate not been lowered, but the Dems programs still instituted, would that have changed where we are now?

Everyone likes to blame Trickle Down Economics (Voodoo Economics, etc.) but other than the deals to get it passed, did those tax cuts really cause all this or has it been the massive expansion in gov't spending?

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[billvon 2,395]

>did those tax cuts really cause all this or has it been the massive
>expansion in gov't spending?

I think it's pretty clearly been both. There are two sides to this problem.

[kallend 1,623]

This tax loophole is also intellectually dishonest. The performance fee is a return on the fund manager’s labor, not his or her capital, so there’s no reason to give it preferential capital gains treatment.

It's just the super wealthy screwing the middle class again.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Bolas 5]

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>did those tax cuts really cause all this or has it been the massive
>expansion in gov't spending?

I think it's pretty clearly been both. There are two sides to this problem.

There are two sides to fixing it now, I agree, but not sure the tax cuts hurt us as much as the spending increases did.

Spending less is far less complicated than taxing less as money not taxed is left in the economy.

Do I believe that tax cuts can generate more income for the gov't? No, but might be able to keep that income at the same levels.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[dreamdancer 0]

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Whether or not this feels like a recovery, we’re technically in one. And it’s true that some money is flowing again. But where exactly is that money going? Not necessarily to those who need it.

It’s going to corporations. The recovery began in the second quarter of 2009, and between then and the fourth quarter of 2010 national income rose by $528 billion — and $464 billion of that, or 88%, went to pretax corporate profits, according to economists at Northeastern University. In fact, corporate profits have been growing quite rapidly in the post-crash period. The NYTimes reported in November of 2010, “Since their cyclical low in the fourth quarter of 2008, profits have grown for seven consecutive quarters, at some of the fastest rates in history.” In the third quarter of 2010, they grew at an annual rate of $1.659 trillion, the highest figure recorded in noninflation-adjusted terms.

It’s going to the pocketbooks of the richest of the rich. The Guardian reports: “The globe’s richest have now recouped the losses they suffered after the 2008 banking crisis. They are richer than ever, and there are more of them — nearly 11 million — than before the recession struck.” According to the annual world wealth report by Merrill Lynch and Capgemini, the wealth of high net worth individuals — those who have more than $1 million in free cash — rose nearly 10% last year and surpassed 2007’s peak of $40.7 trillion, topping out at $42.7 trillion. It was even better for “ultra-high net worth individuals,” those with $30 million to spare, as their numbers surged by 10% and the total value of their investments rose by 11.5% to $15 trillion.

Where is it not going? To wages and salaries.

http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/630895/whose_recovery_is_it_88_of_post-recovery_income_growth_has_gone_to_corporations%2C_just_1_to_workers/#paragraph4

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[hwt 0]

We need a flat tax but the liberals want to rob the rich so we won't have it...

[dreamdancer 0]

how about a flat tax of 90% on anyone with wealth over $1,000,000

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[champu 1]

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We need a flat tax but the liberals want to rob the rich so we won't have it...

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how about a flat tax of 90% on anyone with wealth over $1,000,000

You both realize that both these ideas are idiotic, right?