Skyrad 0
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Andy9o8 0
QuoteWe can fight the Islamists there or on the streets of the US and UK, your call.
That's just meaningless sloganeering.
champu 1
QuoteWe can fight the Islamists there or on the streets of the US and UK, your call.
What, in your opinion, would constitute a minimum western presence to ensure the fight stayed "over there"? (not using quotes to mock, just acknowledging the geographic boundaries of said fight are, and would likely continue to be, somewhat loosely defined.)
I suddenly got this image of a joint western "embassy" in the form of a single forward airbase where we consolidate all the forces in a defensive posture and do nothing but kill anyone who comes within mortar range and launch airstrikes / drone strikes on logistics sites of anyone we don't like.
Sure we'd never get out of Afghanistan but I think that'd give the Islamists something to focus on and it'd be cheaper, both in terms of lives and dollars, than what we're doing now.
QuoteQuoteas a starting point, no school for them.
School is overated and often just a way for government to indoctrinate the young and impressionable /
The purpose of government schools is not to produce critical thinking educated graduates but rather to produce dumb , non thinking cattle whose only skill set is the ability to read an alarm clock.
Peace,
Jim. B
So are you a poster child for the home school method?
Amazon 7
QuoteQuoteQuoteas a starting point, no school for them.
School is overated and often just a way for government to indoctrinate the young and impressionable /
The purpose of government schools is not to produce critical thinking educated graduates but rather to produce dumb , non thinking cattle whose only skill set is the ability to read an alarm clock.
Peace,
Jim. B
So are you a poster child for the home school method?
Sounds remarkably like my cousin in Carolina who was home schooled.
His father was a cool kid till he fell in love with this idiot from the mountains of Carolina and then lost all connections with reality and married her. I mean I can handle the fact they want to play with the rattlers.... but the strychnine drinkin and perparing thier childrn for a bountiful life in the 19th century so they end up having the social skills of a newt is completely uncalled for. Those kids are certainly not capable of living life in the 21st century based on posting about them from the rest of the family on Facebook
billvon 2,379
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>We can fight the Islamists there or on the streets of the US and UK, your call.
True. And you can fight gun-toters in your front yard or prison guards can fight them in prison yards. Your call.
True. And you can fight gun-toters in your front yard or prison guards can fight them in prison yards. Your call.
wsd 0
Jamile knows more about this than you do, so be nice and sit there quietly.
billvon 2,379
>Jamile knows more about this than you do . . .
So does Darius - but you have no issues dismissing what he says. Funny, it's almost like you hear what you want to hear, and disregard the rest.
So does Darius - but you have no issues dismissing what he says. Funny, it's almost like you hear what you want to hear, and disregard the rest.
tkhayes 123
QuoteHow much is freedom worth?
sorry but that is a load of shit. Everyone goes on about freedom and bullshit like there was some fucking remote chance that a bunch of terrorists were suddenly going to conquer and invade the USA.
If they on 9/11, managed to bomb a skyscraper in EVERY city in this country, we would still be a 'free country'
it's a fucking ridiculous argument and if you can even remotely explain the possible end-game result of the WTC bombings as being a threat to our freedom, then I am all ears.
The looses of freedom have only come SINCE 9/11 in the Patriot Act and the extreme fear and right-wing policies.
You can do far better than that - it has NOTHING to do with freedom - but that sounds great when you are spending a trillion gdollars and you want everyone to feel afraid....
such arguments insult any level of intelligence in thsi country.
wsd 0
Quote>Jamile knows more about this than you do . . .
So does Darius - but you have no issues dismissing what he says. Funny, it's almost like you hear what you want to hear, and disregard the rest.
Funny you say that, you obviously missed the boat on that one.
QuoteJamile knows more about this than you do, so be nice and sit there quietly.
This is an argument from authority: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority
It would be better if you were the one who was quiet.
Coreece: "You sound like some skinheads I know, but your prejudice is with Christians, not niggers..."
wsd 0
You know obviously less than you think you do.
So no, I will not discount someone's opinion when they actually know more about it than nearly any person you might speak to.
I know wiki is your god, but please spare us the theatrics.
So no, I will not discount someone's opinion when they actually know more about it than nearly any person you might speak to.
I know wiki is your god, but please spare us the theatrics.
doi 0
Quotesorry but that is a load of shit. Everyone goes on about freedom and bullshit like there was some fucking remote chance that a bunch of terrorists were suddenly going to conquer and invade the USA.
You are right; these paranoid conspiracy theorists use the media fables to conclude their standpoint.
They are not agnostic about the cause of such atrocities and stand behind some paranoid delusion that murdering, torturing and stealing the natural recourses of other countries is somehow justified by the blatant lies they have been told through their beloved flat screen television.
Another obvious delusion here is that these actions actually make them safer.
I guess a lot of time, money and energy have been spent to ensure they think this way.
Usually these spineless and selfish conspiracy theorists will call anyone that questions events such as 9/11 as conspiracy theorists themselves; they could not be more further from the truth.
Yes there are some individuals that have conclusion that the government orchestrated 9/11 for political reasons and if they ‘conclude’ so, they are also by definition conspiracy theorists.
The people that usually get called conspiracy theorists are usually the ones asking the questions. Especially here by many of you reading this.
I expect I will be called such. It is inevitable because that is all these asinine individuals I am describing have to come back on is such childish and inappropriate and incorrect definitions that allow them to somehow not question their own judgments.
The most pathetic part of that is a theorist is someone that has a conclusion, if someone has a question they need answered they have not yet concluded anything, such as me.
Only the imbeciles that decide to take the 'story' hook line and sinker from the very media that they are so openly sceptical about usually, are the true conspiracy nut jobs.
I was one of them until recently, I had the mental strength to question my own judgements and reopen my interpretation of the events. The anomalies and evidence to suggest we have been lied to is overwhelming, we have not been told anything close to the truth. It is obvious only if you are willing to consider it.
Conspiracy theroists believe that if their peers agree with the same conviction, that this makes them correct.
Meanwhile children are being killed in my name, your name and with your money and my money.
It is justified by the false conclusion that the government officials are always completely correct and never lie about anything.
Quote
The people that usually get called conspiracy theorists are usually the ones asking the questions. Especially here by many of you reading this.
It's their refusal to listen to answers that gets them so labelled.
doi 0
QuoteIt's their refusal to listen to answers that gets them so labelled.
Incorrect!
Ad hominem is most often used by those such as you to side step answering the presented questions.
Usually calumnious slander or straw man techniques are used to avoid answering the questions. This is obviously to avoid exposing the fault of the proponent’s contention.
Take the abundance of tangible evidence and peer reviewed journals exposing the existence of nano-thermite for instance.
The argument implying that planting the required quantities of such a substance undetected would be impossible etcetera, is used to sidestep the fact that it exists in abundance, both ignited and unignited.
Simply calling the analysts of such findings kooks does not acknowledge or consider the tangible evidence they have and are quite willing to supply if so required.
The questions often lead to an impending answer that is avoided like the plague in such cases.
To acknowledge the scope of the implications is somewhat formidable I suppose, so it is easy to understand why so many are not willing to attest to the apparent truth.
Amazon 7
QuoteQuoteIt's their refusal to listen to answers that gets them so labelled.
Incorrect!
Ad hominem is most often used by those such as you to side step answering the presented questions.
Usually calumnious slander or straw man techniques are used to avoid answering the questions. This is obviously to avoid exposing the fault of the proponent’s contention.
Take the abundance of tangible evidence and peer reviewed journals exposing the existence of nano-thermite for instance.
The argument implying that planting the required quantities of such a substance undetected would be impossible etcetera, is used to sidestep the fact that it exists in abundance, both ignited and unignited.
Simply calling the analysts of such findings kooks does not acknowledge or consider the tangible evidence they have and are quite willing to supply if so required.
The questions often lead to an impending answer that is avoided like the plague in such cases.
To acknowledge the scope of the implications is somewhat formidable I suppose, so it is easy to understand why so many are not willing to attest to the apparent truth.
I was wondering when you would break out your Holy Grail...
MMMMMMMM nano-thermite.....MMMMMMM
Let me start by saying i didn't read all of the posts in this thread, but having just returned from there 2.5 weeks ago, i figured i'd respond. There is a lot of money wasted there, but not how many of you (and myself) would think. First, the majority of the countries helping us there are doing jack shit, and we still pay for a lot of their supplies. In my opinion, the only countries that helped over there were the Brits, Ausies, and believe it or not Croatians. The Jordanians there spent the majority of the time in the MWR using our internet, eating a ton of food (it was even a joke from one of the base commanders (i moved around a lot on a transition team) that when they left we'd have more chow) and they also deployed w/out weapons to one of the FOBs i was on, the Romanians refused to participate in any base defense operations because they were not allowed to "actively participate in the war," and the list goes on.
On another note, a lot of the civilian contracting is a complete cluster fuck. You have the major contractors sub-contracting to people who continue to sub-contract all the way down to where they can have local nationals do the buisness....and at every step you have price inflation. I stayed in a 10 million dollar building, where the roofs leaked, there were no windows that acutally opened, and the foundation was cracking....Also, just about every contractor i saw was driving in a nice SUV/Truck, which they get new every year (or at least i was told by a group of contractors i worked with for a bit). If we really wanted to cut the cost of the war, we should be less politically correct and stop paying for a coalition that really only has a couple countries who give a fuck, and cut back on the contractors. The budgets they get are rediculous.
Lastly, working with the ANA (Afghan National Army) was a complete eye-opening experience. In less than 1 month, i saw my Kandak get out fitted with over 6 million dollars worth of gear, all brand new, which was often better than some of our gear. Their weapons were made even shittier than i would have expected...they use American weapons, but many of the metal parts are replaced with plastic, and not hard plastic. The ANA .50 cals we took out broke every time they fired, because some of the pins could not handle the recoil of the weapon system. The majority of the ANA would take the gear with little or no training and break it (i think of a D-7 dozer that was amazing, but they broke it the first day they recieved it because everyone wanted to drive it, and we could only stop so many before the Kandak CO ordered one of his troops to move it). The ford pickups we get them cost about 16K a piece. Some smart people said they should last on average about 2-3 years....but the actual life cycle of the trucks was right around 6 months, and that was with my mechanics working their asses off. The most dis-heartening thing i heard came from an Army 2-star who said (when talking about a comm Kandak that was to be formed up, with some really high speed gear and little training (like sat comms, sat dishes, etc) "It doesn't matter if they are trained Captain (talking to me)...we are going for quantity not quality. As soon as there are insert number here ANA and ANP (police) then we can finally get the fuck out of here." Having worked with my ANA for a long time, gone on patrols, gotten in fights with them, I was irate that this was coming from the top. They are going to be set up for failure, and in my opinion, the majority of US senior people there dont give a shit as long as they can get home in time. There were few that showed me they actually cared about the ANA and what happened to them after we left.
On another note, a lot of the civilian contracting is a complete cluster fuck. You have the major contractors sub-contracting to people who continue to sub-contract all the way down to where they can have local nationals do the buisness....and at every step you have price inflation. I stayed in a 10 million dollar building, where the roofs leaked, there were no windows that acutally opened, and the foundation was cracking....Also, just about every contractor i saw was driving in a nice SUV/Truck, which they get new every year (or at least i was told by a group of contractors i worked with for a bit). If we really wanted to cut the cost of the war, we should be less politically correct and stop paying for a coalition that really only has a couple countries who give a fuck, and cut back on the contractors. The budgets they get are rediculous.
Lastly, working with the ANA (Afghan National Army) was a complete eye-opening experience. In less than 1 month, i saw my Kandak get out fitted with over 6 million dollars worth of gear, all brand new, which was often better than some of our gear. Their weapons were made even shittier than i would have expected...they use American weapons, but many of the metal parts are replaced with plastic, and not hard plastic. The ANA .50 cals we took out broke every time they fired, because some of the pins could not handle the recoil of the weapon system. The majority of the ANA would take the gear with little or no training and break it (i think of a D-7 dozer that was amazing, but they broke it the first day they recieved it because everyone wanted to drive it, and we could only stop so many before the Kandak CO ordered one of his troops to move it). The ford pickups we get them cost about 16K a piece. Some smart people said they should last on average about 2-3 years....but the actual life cycle of the trucks was right around 6 months, and that was with my mechanics working their asses off. The most dis-heartening thing i heard came from an Army 2-star who said (when talking about a comm Kandak that was to be formed up, with some really high speed gear and little training (like sat comms, sat dishes, etc) "It doesn't matter if they are trained Captain (talking to me)...we are going for quantity not quality. As soon as there are insert number here ANA and ANP (police) then we can finally get the fuck out of here." Having worked with my ANA for a long time, gone on patrols, gotten in fights with them, I was irate that this was coming from the top. They are going to be set up for failure, and in my opinion, the majority of US senior people there dont give a shit as long as they can get home in time. There were few that showed me they actually cared about the ANA and what happened to them after we left.
Amazon 7
Face it.. War is GREAT for business.. as long as you are in the business...the level of war profiteering off the War on Terror truely amazes me.. but for those who are on the front lines you guys certainly are bearing the brunt of the suffering....profiting from the war for you guys though.... not so much.
Thanks for doing what you do.. especially under the screwed up rules you have to do the job under.![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]"){kind=small}
doi 0
QuoteI was wondering when you would break out your Holy Grail...
MMMMMMMM nano-thermite.....MMMMMMM
Nano-thermite is not a holy grail; it is only one of many irrefutable subjects which will force you to use ad hominem, bigotry, straw man techniques or anything other than addressing the subject matter itself, if you wish to avoid the inevitable.
You are forced to adhere to these instruments as you are well aware this discussion disproves your selfish and obdurate disposition.
You profess apparent wisdom yet you act like a child when push comes to shove.
There is no need for a debate, you are not worth the effort, but if you are going to support murder and war crimes then you had better be prepared for the consequences.
Abnegation only works so long as your argument has substance.
Slander is not substance.
How old are you?
doi 0
QuoteFace it.. War is GREAT for business.. as long as you are in the business...the level of war profiteering off the War on Terror truely amazes me.. but for those who are on the front lines you guys certainly are bearing the brunt of the suffering....profiting from the war for you guys though.... not so much.
You are able to distinguish half of the problem but are not quite prepared to see the full story.
Watch this, Ted Gunderson is a former FBI chief.
I presume you believe you also have more knowledge than him on the subject?
False flag ops are much more common that you are obviously willing to accept.
QuoteSpecific Historical Examples
The CIA admits that it hired Iranians in the 1950's to pose as Communists and stage bombings in Iran in order to turn the country against its democratically-elected prime minister.
The former Italian Prime Minister, an Italian judge, and the former head of Italian counterintelligence admit that NATO, with the help of the Pentagon and CIA, carried out terror bombings in Italy and other European countries in the 1950s and blamed the communists, in order to rally people’s support for their governments in Europe in their fight against communism. As one participant in this formerly-secret program stated: "You had to attack civilians, people, women, children, innocent people, unknown people far removed from any political game. The reason was quite simple. They were supposed to force these people, the Italian public, to turn to the state to ask for greater security" (and see this)(Italy and other European countries subject to the terror campaign had joined NATO before the bombings occurred).
As admitted by the U.S. government, recently declassified documents show that in the 1960's, the American Joint Chiefs of Staff signed off on a plan to blow up AMERICAN airplanes (using an elaborate plan involving the switching of airplanes), and also to commit terrorist acts on American soil, and then to blame it on the Cubans in order to justify an invasion of Cuba.
Etcetera etcetera.
doi 0
QuoteLet me start by saying i didn't read all of the posts in this thread, but having just returned from there 2.5 weeks ago, i figured i'd respond.
Did you carry and AK to cover you tracks?
How many innocent people did you witness having their lives taken?
DanG 1
I spent 18 months there and didn't witness any innocent people having their lives taken (except a couple guys in a car crash). The only innocents I was aware of losing their lives due to fighting in my AO were killed by the Taliban. That's not to say that innocent people weren't killed by Coalition forces, but if you'd actually spend time researching the subject instead of believing every anti-US crackpot website out there, you'd learn that about 75% of civilian casualties in Afghanistan are caused by the insurgents.
- Dan G
- Dan G
doi 0
Quoteyou'd learn that about 75% of civilian casualties in Afghanistan are caused by the insurgents.
You will find that 75% of the so called insurgents were actually innocent civilians that had confiscated weapons dropped on them.
Were you peeling potatoes over there or are you ignorant?
As long as you have an AK in your Hummer 'to drop' then any child you wish to beat the crap out of is an insurgent I suppose.
Don’t act like there are not thousands of recorded instances of atrocities with thousands of soldiers having spoken out about such instances.
You can live in the dark if you wish and I am not accusing you personally of murder, but many of your comrades would have made up for you lack of doing so.
DanG 1
QuoteYou will find that 75% of the so called insurgents were actually innocent civilians that had confiscated weapons dropped on them.
Any source on that besides your own delusions?
QuoteWere you peeling potatoes over there or are you ignorant?
I was a Civil Affairs officer. I spent my time meeeting with local people from dirt farmers all the way up to Provincial Governors. I was far from ignorant about what was going on.
QuoteAs long as you have an AK in your Hummer 'to drop' then any child you wish to beat the crap out of is an insurgent I suppose.
You are really a sick individual if you think that's the norm.
QuoteDon’t act like there are not thousands of recorded instances of atrocities with thousands of soldiers having spoken out about such instances.
You claim thousands, I'd be surprized if you can come up with more than ten.
QuoteYou can live in the dark if you wish and I am not accusing you personally of murder, but many of your comrades would have made up for you lack of doing so.
Like I said, evidence outside of your own sick delusional mind would be great. I won't hold my breath.
- Dan G
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
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