What if Jesus didn't die on the cross

[stevebabin 0]

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More so than you'd imagine. The Government uses God more here than anywhere else I've seen. It's so intertwined with politics that it the church often has to step out to speak against what politicians say. Recently the ruling party told people if they didn't vote for them they'd be putting themselves in hell, or something equally as manipulative... Hence a church leader having to release a press statement saying people mustn't worry about going to hell for voting for the wrong party.

Whether or not these are true Christians is beyond the point, they continue to claim to be and continue to use religion in politics. And still try to push 'Gods will" on people.

South Africa can be likened to the Southern U.S states when it comes to religion.

Wow! I understand your animosity. However, let me reassure you, it is not that bad here in the South.

Let me reassure you and (everyone else) that there is no shortage of religious idiots here in the south.

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[Coreece 190]

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What ? Are you attempting to bolster my point?

Everybody funny, now you funny too...

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I'm pretty sure you're not but if you read that Psalm I'm pretty sure it kinda agrees with what I've been sayin'.

How?

You've been sayin' that you are a god and "have all knowledge."

But the Psalm says:
“The ‘gods’ know nothing, they understand nothing.
They walk about in darkness..."

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[jaybird18c 4]

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Jim, would you consider yourself to be a good god?

I am perfect in my relationship with the universe .
So are you! And you would have been whether or not the Master, Jesus the Christ, ever incarnated.

Peace,
Jim B

Yes...but would you consider yourself to be a good god?

[Gravitymaster 0]

Sorry, I never get involved in religious threads but I just had to post this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFpo-hOss34&feature=related

Is this you Jim?

[jimbrown 0]

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Sorry, I never get involved in religious threads but I just had to post this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFpo-hOss34&feature=related

Is this you Jim?

LOL!!!
I think he had my script but I'm not as handsome or as snappy a dresser!

Peace,
Jim B

[jimbrown 0]

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Jim, would you consider yourself to be a good god?

I am perfect in my relationship with the universe .
So are you! And you would have been whether or not the Master, Jesus the Christ, ever incarnated.

Peace,
Jim B

Yes...but would you consider yourself to be a good god?

The question (and don't take this wrong) just doesn't make sense.
There are no good gods and bad gods.
There is one God in perfect harmony with the universe. We are part of and also wholly that.

How can this be? How can we be a part and a whole?

You do believe in the Trinity , don't you?

Same kinda deal however this was Moses Moria -Els' true teaching and the concept he wanted all of us to understand.

Peace,
Jim B

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Sorry, I never get involved in religious threads but I just had to post this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFpo-hOss34&feature=related

Is this you Jim?

LOL!!!
I think he had my script but I'm not as handsome or as snappy a dresser!

Peace,
Jim B

I'm sure you are as charismatic, though.

[jimbrown 0]

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Sorry, I never get involved in religious threads but I just had to post this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFpo-hOss34&feature=related

Is this you Jim?

LOL!!!
I think he had my script but I'm not as handsome or as snappy a dresser!

Peace,
Jim B

I'm sure you are as charismatic, though.

I am more of a showman.
I would have had snakes!!!
Nothing is as convincing as snakes!!!!LOL!

Peace,
Jim B

[br0k3n 0]

To be honest whether he died or not is largely irrelevant. The act of dying on the cross was to symbolise his suffering to free us from sin. (but did he suffer, being a god, and knowing that after he died he would rise from the dead, and the go home and hang out with Dad, probably not, but this is a whole different topic of conversation)

Now the bigger issue is Sin.

So according to the Christianity’s version of “original sin” we are all born with the hereditary stain of sin due to the belief that we are descendants of Adam, who committed the first sin by eating the fruit of the forbidden tree.

Now God had said, 'you shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.'" (Genesis 3:3)

So, the original sin was disobedience, mistrust, and disloyalty against God.

Now this is the fundamental underpinning of particularly the Christian dogma, as story is that Christ son of god came to earth and died to free us from this sin, so without Adam and Eve and the original sin, then the story of Christ is pointless and meaningless, and Christianity is nothing more than a fable…

Oh dear……….

So, God creates Adam and Eve, he creates them with knowledge of good or evil, right or wrong. He pits them in a Garden, and creates a tree whose fruit gives them the Knowledge of Good and Evil (probably through some god magic).

God tells them not to eat the fruit or they will DIE…

Now, as Adam and Eve don't have the faintest idea of right and wrong, they don't know it's a Bad Idea to disobey God .The only way they can gain this knowledge is by.... Eating from the Tree!

To make matter worse, Adam and Eve were threatened with the punishment of death. How can this be any sort of threat? There was no death in The Garden - they had never witnessed it, and would probably have a hard time grasping the concept anyway. So, they were told not to do something (and had no way of knowing that disobedience was bad), otherwise something would happen to them (and they had no idea what that was, or whether it was a good or bad thing to happen anyway).. "We'll die? What does that mean? Maybe it's fun!"


Now we know based on overwhelming empirical evidence that Adam and Eve were not the first humans, and that man had existed for many 1000s of years before them, So we have to ask the question what if (am most likely) that Adam and Eve never existed and the “Original Sin” never happened??? Kind of makes a mockery of the whole story and the crucifixion IMO

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--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[jimbrown 0]

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To be honest whether he died or not is largely irrelevant. The act of dying on the cross was to symbolise his suffering to free us from sin. (but did he suffer, being a god, and knowing that after he died he would rise from the dead, and the go home and hang out with Dad, probably not, but this is a whole different topic of conversation)

Now the bigger issue is Sin.

So according to the Christianity’s version of “original sin” we are all born with the hereditary stain of sin due to the belief that we are descendants of Adam, who committed the first sin by eating the fruit of the forbidden tree.

Now God had said, 'you shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.'" (Genesis 3:3)

So, the original sin was disobedience, mistrust, and disloyalty against God.

Now this is the fundamental underpinning of particularly the Christian dogma, as story is that Christ son of god came to earth and died to free us from this sin, so without Adam and Eve and the original sin, then the story of Christ is pointless and meaningless, and Christianity is nothing more than a fable…

Oh dear……….

So, God creates Adam and Eve, he creates them with knowledge of good or evil, right or wrong. He pits them in a Garden, and creates a tree whose fruit gives them the Knowledge of Good and Evil (probably through some god magic).

God tells them not to eat the fruit or they will DIE…

Now, as Adam and Eve don't have the faintest idea of right and wrong, they don't know it's a Bad Idea to disobey God .The only way they can gain this knowledge is by.... Eating from the Tree!

To make matter worse, Adam and Eve were threatened with the punishment of death. How can this be any sort of threat? There was no death in The Garden - they had never witnessed it, and would probably have a hard time grasping the concept anyway. So, they were told not to do something (and had no way of knowing that disobedience was bad), otherwise something would happen to them (and they had no idea what that was, or whether it was a good or bad thing to happen anyway).. "We'll die? What does that mean? Maybe it's fun!"


Now we know based on overwhelming empirical evidence that Adam and Eve were not the first humans, and that man had existed for many 1000s of years before them, So we have to ask the question what if (am most likely) that Adam and Eve never existed and the “Original Sin” never happened??? Kind of makes a mockery of the whole story and the crucifixion IMO

LOL! I can see and understand completely why you would feel this way.
Relax!
The Bible is not entirely a lie.
Portions of it are complete fabrications but the book does contain important Truths.

Relax!
Look into yourself and you will find all knowledge.

Peace,
JimB

[br0k3n 0]

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Portions of it are complete fabrications

Is the story of Adam and Eve a "fabrication" ???

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--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[kallend 1,623]

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Same kinda deal however this was Moses Moria -Els' true teaching

Doesn't he play for the Pittsburgh Steelers? Or is that his brother Antwaan?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jimbrown 0]

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Portions of it are complete fabrications

Is the story of Adam and Eve a "fabrication" ???

In the book of Genesis there are two completely different accounts of the creation of man.
What do you think?
Why don't you read both accounts, consider trhe information in your own mind and draw your own conclusion?
Trust your knowledge. Relax. Everything is going to be alright!

Peace,
Jim B

[jimbrown 0]

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Same kinda deal however this was Moses Moria -Els' true teaching

Doesn't he play for the Pittsburgh Steelers? Or is that his brother Antwaan?

Could explain Franco Harris' miracle play " the immaculate reception"!

Peace,
Jim B

[jaybird18c 4]

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In the book of Genesis there are two completely different accounts of the creation of man.
What do you think?
Why don't you read both accounts, consider trhe information in your own mind and draw your own conclusion?
Trust your knowledge. Relax. Everything is going to be alright!

Contradictions: Two Creation Accounts?

[jimbrown 0]

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In the book of Genesis there are two completely different accounts of the creation of man.
What do you think?
Why don't you read both accounts, consider trhe information in your own mind and draw your own conclusion?
Trust your knowledge. Relax. Everything is going to be alright!

Contradictions: Two Creation Accounts?

You know Jay, if you ever commune with your own thoughts instead of parroting the thoughts of others you may realize you know something.

The differences I was considering don't have to do with chronolgy. Perhaps you could open the book and report back with three *major* differences between the accounts of the creation of man in the book of Genesis.

Peace,
Jim B

[jaybird18c 4]

Do you think this is anything new? Do you think the two supposedly differing accounts surprised the early Church Fathers or do you think it made perfect sense to them as it was written? These are very very tired old arguments against the validity of Scripture. Nothing new that hasn't been handled over and over a very long time ago.

[jimbrown 0]

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Do you think this is anything new? Do you think the two supposedly differing accounts surprised the early Church Fathers or do you think it made perfect sense to them as it was written? These are very very tired old arguments against the validity of Scripture. Nothing new that hasn't been handled over and over a very long time ago.

Listen Jaybird, I'm not here attempting to argue with you. I'm here to point out to you the path toward Enlightenment.

I asked you to reread those accounts in Genesis and consider them in your own mind and then form your own opinion.

One Truth is that very few humans have ever gained a high degree of Cosmic Conscienceness.
The Master Jesus the Christ did and his teaching is that if he could do it we all have that ability. Further he tells us that we all will eventually reach that goal.

His teaching is that knowledge is found while looking within.

Peace, and may your journey bring you many smiles.
Travel with a light heart.
Jim B

[jimbrown 0]

[replyYou've been sayin' that you are a god and "have all knowledge."

But the Psalm says:
“The ‘gods’ know nothing, they understand nothing.
They walk about in darkness..."

[Coreece 190]

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Isn't it true that the majority of them are attributed to King David?
Was he a nice guy?

No, neither am I, nor are you...stop deceiving yourself with delusions of grandeur perpetrated by human depravity and accept the grace of God for Christ's sake.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[jimbrown 0]

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Isn't it true that the majority of them are attributed to King David?
Was he a nice guy?

No, neither am I, nor are you...stop deceiving yourself with delusions of grandeur perpetrated by human depravity and accept the grace of God for Christ's sake.

LOL!
That's pretty funny!!! I like intelligent humour.

Oh!!! You didn't answer my question about King David.
You know the guy who wrote the psalms you were quoting earlier.
Was he a nice guy like you and I, or did he have a dark side?
How many of his fellow humans did he kill?

Peace,
Jim B

[Coreece 190]

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Oh!!! You didn't answer my question about King David. You know the guy who wrote the psalms you were quoting earlier.

Yes, I did...and no...he didn't write the psalm I quoted earlier.

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Was he a nice guy like you and I

we are not nice guys...

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or did he have a dark side?

Yes, he took another man's wife, went into her and had a child. He then sent her husband to the front lines of the war to be killed....

Perhaps you should actually read the account and learn something about yourself and the Grace of God.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[jimbrown 0]

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Oh!!! You didn't answer my question about King David. You know the guy who wrote the psalms you were quoting earlier.

Yes, I did...

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Was he a nice guy like you and I

we are not nice guys...

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or did he have a dark side?

Yes, he took another man's wife, went into her and had a child. He then sent her husband to the front lines of the war to be killed....

Perhaps you should actually read the account and learn something about yourself and the Grace of God.

Listen,
I 've read the account and I have also viewed the happenings in real time , up close and personal.

My question to you is why would you quote the psalms if they were authored by such a man?
How many people was he responsible for killing?
Makes Osama Bin Laden look like a kindergarten chump doesn't it?

Peace,
Jim B

[Coreece 190]

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Listen,
I 've read the account and I have also viewed the happenings.

That may be so...but your comprehension may be a little off.

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My question to you is why would you quote the psalms if they were authored by such a man?

Agian...comprehension problem. The psalm was not authored by him...sheesh, it's no wonder you're so deluded to think you're God.

I thought secret decoder rings only revealed the truth about ovaltine...

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[jimbrown 0]

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Listen,
I 've read the account and I have also viewed the happenings.

That may be so...but your comprehension may be a little off.

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My question to you is why would you quote the psalms if they were authored by such a man?

Agian...comprehension problem. The psalm was not authored by him...sheesh, it's no wonder you're so deluded to think you're God.

I thought secret decoder rings only revealed the truth about ovaltine...

LOL!
Gracefully you are not immuneI love you brother .
It is inevitable . Eventually you will awake to the Truth Coreece.
Peace,
Jim B