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jimbrown

What if Jesus didn't die on the cross

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OK now.., don't throw stones!!!

What if Jesus didn't ever actually die on the cross?

When Simon went to collect the body Pilate was all like(and this is documented in your bible) he's already dead?
Death by crucifiction takes several days. Especially for a man as fit as Jesus who walked from town to town eating fish and figs, olives and bread.

Crucifiction was a long, cruel ,tortuous death. It took days not hours.
And Pilate would have known that. He would have known the expected amount of time one would have to hang on the cross before they expired.
Breaking the legs of the crucified would speed up the death but from the Biblical accounts we know(?) that His legs were not broken.

The lance thrust into his side and immediate expulsion of blood and water tends to support the heart still pumping!

Did Jesus die on the cross???

The Muslims believe that he did not die on the cross.
My research supports their belief.

He was seen after the crucifiction so surely he was not dead!

Peace,
Jim B

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My research supports their belief.



What research?



My research!

Any questions mr Quade?

LOL!!! I knew you'lld have some. LOL

Listen I've got a few more hours but then I've got to be back to the lake.

Do you have any specific questions before I go back to paddling?

Peace,
Jim B

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Then all His first disciples suffered and died believing a lie. Not likely!



Let's discuss His "first disciples"
My research reveals the lot of them to be common men. Fisherman and farmers . Not a physician in the bunch.
Further they were lazy men living of the notoriety of the Christ, kind of a parrallel to todays entourages who follow around Snoop Doggy Dog or Fifty Cent .
When their patron was arrested most of them went into hiding and were not present at the cruci fiction.
There is not one Biblical account of anyone checking for a pulse when Jesus was removed from the cross?
Could it be that he was still alive?
Could it be that he never died on the cross?

I hope this discusion brings you closer to Peace,Understanding,Wisdom and Enlightenment , Ron.

Peace,
Jim B

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Then all His first disciples suffered and died believing a lie. Not likely!



Let's discuss His "first disciples"
My research reveals the lot of them to be common men. Fisherman and farmers . Not a physician in the bunch.
Further they were lazy men living of the notoriety of the Christ, kind of a parrallel to todays entourages who follow around Snoop Doggy Dog or Fifty Cent .
When their patron was arrested most of them went into hiding and were not present at the cruci fiction.
There is not one Biblical account of anyone checking for a pulse when Jesus was removed from the cross?
Could it be that he was still alive?
Could it be that he never died on the cross?

I hope this discusion brings you closer to Peace,Understanding,Wisdom and Enlightenment , Ron.

Peace,
Jim B



Your response has accomplished that in great measure for me.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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I had to do a fair amount of research, but was able to uncover this obscured article that was published a little over 2000 years ago in the Jerusalem Post news papyrus.

Savior Dies After Drunk Driving Accident
A man from Jerusalem died last night after supper when his chariot went out of control. Witnesses say that he was careening down the street while laughing and shouting "Follow me, I am the light and the way"!
The man, Jesus of Nazareth, age 32, was found dead at the scene of the accident. Several empty bottles of wine were scattered about the wreckage.
Authorities, through prayer, have been trying to contact his father, but as of yet their prayers have not been answered.
Those at the last supper say that Jesus was extremely drunk. They report that they tried to take his reins away from him, but he threatened to smite them if they did.
In his memory, his friends vow to start a religion in his name.
"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

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My research supports their belief.




Well then, I guess that settles it. When can we look forward to seeing your research published in a peer reviewed journal?

The Muslims also believe in flying horses, any plans to research that?

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Before we ask ourselves this question maybe we should ask if he existed in the first place. There is no (zero) secular evidence for the existence of JC. Ancient books and parables written by different authors (who never actually met him), at different times, with different agendas do not count as evidence and should not be taken literally. I say I DO NOT KNOW. His story follows the same story as many birth-death-rebirth deities who too never existed, only in myth. We can then ask, "Why is the story of JC so prominent"? Maybe it's because those who did not believe in this story were tortured, murdered, and forced to believe from 300 years following his death until about, ummmm, today (Hi, it's God. Worship me or I'll torture you forever. Love, God, I mean Jesus, I mean the Holy Spirit.... ummm, just love me alright). Could the man as a teacher existed, sure. Until there is hard evidence for biblical heros, such as JC, Moses and David, I will remain a skeptic to any story that was written by men, altered countless times over many, many centuries, interpreted, re-interpreted, and re-interpreted over and over, and influenced by multiple cultures by men with their own political and financial agenda. As science/history/academia (which too should be approached with skepticism) shows us today, there is a huge difference in what people believe and what happened historically based on EVIDENCE
I love BASE because cliffs don't crash
A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves

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There is no (zero) secular evidence for the existence of JC. Books written by different authors (who never actually met him), at different times, with different agendas do not count as evidence and should not be taken literally. I say I DO NOT KNOW.



I have no doubt there was "a man" who was the basis for the Jesus narrative. To me it's painfully clear the story has been wildly exaggerated, parts made up much later out of nothing in an attempt to reconcile various versions and other bits outright stolen from other god myths, but somewhere in there is a kernel of truth about a radical philosopher who pissed off some Romans and got crucified for it. Not that it means much, there were an awful lot of them at the time.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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+1. I can totally see that. A liberal "hippie" who came against Roman imperialistic values and had to be dealt with, but to label him the son of God, 300 years after his death by associating his story with pagan values at the time of pagan uprisings seems a little too "creative" and coincidental
I love BASE because cliffs don't crash
A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves

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+1. I can totally see that. A liberal "hippie" who came against Roman imperialistic values and had to be dealt with, but to label him the son of God, 300 years after his death by associating his story with pagan values at the time of pagan uprisings seems a little too "creative" and coincidental



Well, if you're going to attempt to wrestle control from "the government" it always helps to have "God" on your side. It makes for a much better recruitment tool.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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The Muslims believe that he did not die on the cross.
My research supports their belief.

He was seen after the crucifiction so surely he was not dead!

Peace,
Jim B



If you think His story is a myth, why concern yourself with it? There are so many myths and people believing them that you will exhaust yourself if you try to set them all strait. But if you really are seeking the Truth, you will find it, and the Truth will set you free.


...

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but somewhere in there is a kernel of truth about a radical philosopher who pissed off some Romans and got crucified for it.



How did He piss off the Romans more than the Jewish Religious leaders of that time? Why would the Romans give a flying flame? How did they find out?
Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

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A liberal "hippie" who came against Roman imperialistic values and had to be dealt with



Quote

There is no (zero) secular evidence for the existence of JC.



Unless he was a libereal hippie who came against Roman imperialistic values and had to be dealt with...

you're funny!


Why would the Romans even give a flying flame about some low life Jew? That's why they mocked him as king of the Jews...They were just happy to have a reason to kill a jew delivered by the Jewish Religious leaders of that time who labeled him as a threat... He was a threat to the Jewish system, so the leaders turned him over to the Romans to do their dirty work.

The Romans love killing Jews...Just look at Constantine, that S.O.B!

The Catholic leadership was killing Jews long before Hitler...Sorry to bring up Godwins Law, but it is the truth. Then when Hitler came along the Catholic leadership turned a blind eye.

The Roman system is 100% purely satanic along with their Jewish leading cohorts.

*Edit*
It's confusing, I know...it may seem like hodgepodge, but an objective study of history and the scripture makes it clear...moreso if you've experinced the Spirit of God.
Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

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He wasn't dying quick enough so they stab the dude on the side.
No shit his heart was still pumping at the time, and that is why they stab the dude to haste the death.

Your question has the answer.



If He wasn't dying quickly enough, they break legs. The stabbing was just to see if he was dead ( blood and water indicates the blood is separated due to lack of circulation= dead, which at the time was the definitive way of determining so)
lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

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I have experienced the "spirit of God". I was a born again Pentecostal Christian for 16 years. I spoke in tongues, I waked the walk, and i talked the talk. But then around the age of 24 (3 years ago) I began to question things. I became a skeptic. I realized, and a very awesome NYU neurological study has concluded as well, that it was all in my head. I made it such an integral part of my life that in a delusion it was real... to me. The biggest part was, as i mentioned earlier, this..., "Worship me or I'll torture you forever. Love, God". That is obviously man-made. So, that was another thing I struggled with. I then began to think (something no power wants), "If i was born in India I would be Hindu. If I was born in some South American Amazonian hunter/forager group I would most likely subscribe to their beliefs". It's just cultural. It was very hard for me to wrap my head around that following 16 years of a devout walk. Is there a God? Who the hell knows. I can't stand certainty, for and against, since nobody has special powers that I do not. I believe it's a perceptual delusion based on human bias cushioned by 1,700 years of inertia of "do this or die. Either now or over and over for eternity"... that's love. it's hogwash.

Why did they make a big deal of one man? Who knows. Maybe to make an example. As mentioned, there is no secular evidence for the dudes existence. There is so much interpretation on this subject, hence Christianity being responsible for more deaths than anything on this planet. One would think that being the Son of the invisible guy in the sky (which there are over 2,800 in cultures around the world) who invented the universe, there wouldn't be so much guess work... I recommend that believers in any faith (the 34,000 in Christianity and all belief systems on Earth) to take a lesson in Anthropology. Question the system that was forced into them from every angle from before they were able to think. They might find many things don't add up, monotheism is VERY, VERY new to us as a species, and all belief systems have had their heros, prophecies, etc that faded with time. Oh, and this is where people pull the "just have faith" card. Faith is the boast of a man who is too lazy to investigate imho.
I love BASE because cliffs don't crash
A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves

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Further they were lazy men living of the notoriety of the Christ, kind of a parrallel to todays entourages who follow around Snoop Doggy Dog or Fifty Cent .



LMAO:D
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

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I have experienced the "spirit of God". I was a born again Pentecostal Christian for 16 years. I spoke in tongues, I waked the walk, and i talked the talk. But then around the age of 24 (3 years ago) I began to question things. I became a skeptic. I realized, and a very awesome NYU neurological study has concluded as well, that it was all in my head. I made it such an integral part of my life that in a delusion it was real... to me. The biggest part was, as i mentioned earlier, this..., "Worship me or I'll torture you forever. Love, God". That is obviously man-made. So, that was another thing I struggled with. I then began to think (something no power wants), "If i was born in India I would be Hindu. If I was born in some South American Amazonian hunter/forager group I would most likely subscribe to their beliefs". It's just cultural. It was very hard for me to wrap my head around that following 16 years of a devout walk. Is there a God? Who the hell knows. I can't stand certainty, for and against, since nobody has special powers that I do not. I believe it's a perceptual delusion based on human bias cushioned by 1,700 years of inertia of "do this or die. Either now or over and over for eternity"... that's love. it's hogwash.

Why did they make a big deal of one man? Who knows. Maybe to make an example. As mentioned, there is no secular evidence for the dudes existence. There is so much interpretation on this subject, hence Christianity being responsible for more deaths than anything on this planet. One would think that being the Son of the invisible guy in the sky (which there are over 2,800 in cultures around the world) who invented the universe, there wouldn't be so much guess work... I recommend that believers in any faith (the 34,000 in Christianity and all belief systems on Earth) to take a lesson in Anthropology. Question the system that was forced into them from every angle from before they were able to think. They might find many things don't add up, monotheism is VERY, VERY new to us as a species, and all belief systems have had their heros, prophecies, etc that faded with time. Oh, and this is where people pull the "just have faith" card. Faith is the boast of a man who is too lazy to investigate imho.



During your period as a born-again, Spirit-filled Pentecostal Christian, did you ever experience an unmerited blessing so great that it could only be accounted for as from God?

If yes, how did you turn your back on your belief?

If no, then you have nothing to hold on to.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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No blessing that I couldn't attribute to mundane coincidence. Nothing out of the ordinary. Out of the 6 of us, parents and 4 kids, my parents are the only ones who hold onto the faith and they too question it from time to time, even with being the music ministers at their church. Education/experience to world cultures/and questions that could not be answered swayed all of our beliefs, although I was the last one to give it up. Since then I have lived a life of love, peace, forgiveness, and self-reliance and I feel better inside.
I love BASE because cliffs don't crash
A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves

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