beowulf 1 #51 May 12, 2011 What is weak is the claims that any god exists at all. All you have are weak arguments with no supporting evidence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jaybird18c 4 #52 May 12, 2011 QuoteWhat is weak is the claims that any god exists at all. All you have are weak arguments with no supporting evidence. Who's got the stronger faith? The Christian or the Atheist. I'd almost say that the atheist does....almost. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #53 May 12, 2011 There is no faith in atheism. Simply disbelief. And with out any scientific evidence it's easy to disbelieve. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #54 May 12, 2011 QuoteQuoteWhy couldn't they just leave it as good stories that make some points about how to live? You hit the nail on the head. If Jesus came only to show us how to live or if He would have just declared that his was only "a way" instead of "the way", nobody would have a problem. The world applauds the search for truth, however, condemns anyone who's arrogant enough to say that they've found it. nicely put How do you know that some guy named "Jesus" or the like didn't do it exactly as you say he should have? Maybe he did. But, some "organization" decided to exploit this guy's death and turn it into a power grabbing thing called "religion" - hey, they were just doing what people have done for centuries anyway, right? I have no issues with people of faith. I have big issues with large power grabbing organizations - like political parties, unions, terrorist organizations, churches, and POPS. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #55 May 12, 2011 ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 189 #56 May 12, 2011 QuoteI have no issues with people of faith. I have big issues with large power grabbing organizations - like political parties, unions, terrorist organizations, churches, and POPS. Leave Popsjumper out of this...that guy is cool!Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #57 May 12, 2011 QuoteQuoteNothing invented by humans is pure. bacon bits OK, I'll give you bacon bits. But what else have the humans done for us?" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #58 May 12, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteWhy couldn't they just leave it as good stories that make some points about how to live? You hit the nail on the head. If Jesus came only to show us how to live or if He would have just declared that his was only "a way" instead of "the way", nobody would have a problem. The world applauds the search for truth, however, condemns anyone who's arrogant enough to say that they've found it. nicely put How do you know that some guy named "Jesus" or the like didn't do it exactly as you say he should have? Maybe he did. But, some "organization" decided to exploit this guy's death and turn it into a power grabbing thing called "religion" - hey, they were just doing what people have done for centuries anyway, right? I have no issues with people of faith. I have big issues with large power grabbing organizations - like political parties, unions, terrorist organizations, churches, and POPS. So why have they been able to dupe people for so long? Is the average person that un-sharp. I mean I could see back when the masses thought everything was made of earth, wind, fire, and water; and that rotting wood produced salamanders, etc - people might be open to believing all the oogie-boogie that the early leaders of organized religion spouted. But in this day and age - WTF?! You gotta hand it to the leaders of organized religion though. They have managed to keep about a 1/4 of the world's population still believing in shit that is about as plausible as Santa Claus. I think one of their biggest weapons has been painting science and the aquisition of knowledge as just another belief system like theirs rather than the critical thinking system it is." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #59 May 12, 2011 QuoteI think one of their biggest weapons has been painting science and the aquisition of knowledge as just another belief system like theirs rather than the critical thinking system it is. You have that right! It's amazing the way some of the people here seem to think it's ok to redefine words to make their belief sound more resonable then they actually are. They seem to confuse fact with opinion and evidence with arguments. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #60 May 12, 2011 QuoteSo why have they been able to dupe people for so long? Is the average person that un-sharp. not so much but the real key is to get them as young as you can so it takes - much like liberalism (another religion) via public school indoctrination, the religion thing starts even younger on the other hand, some people just really need some kind of psychological support and their belief provides that - I'm ok with that if it doesn't intrude on me. There are a lot worse self delusions out there than believing there is a reward for being nice and that someone loves you. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,611 #61 May 13, 2011 QuoteQuoteThe 10 commandments were mostly ripped off from the Egyptians (Chapter 125 of the ancient Egyptian Book of the Dead) and Babylonians. This is very weak. . Facts are neither strong nor weak. They just are. Mythology, on the other hand, is interesting but is not fact. You seem to have a hard time telling the difference.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cbuilder 0 #62 May 13, 2011 I am amazed how (non-believers) try to go out of their way to disprove something they don t believe in. Contradictions? can any body show me some? I am a Christian and read my Bible. When I read something i don t understand, i read again, still don t understand, I merely say "God your smarter than me and thats what makes you God". Alot of scriptures echos previous scriptures that may sound confussing but are not. We think of man writing the Bible, God wrote the Bible thru Men. I came a believer in my 20's, and found that Christ is real. To believe that this life (a short life) is it, that earth and people are accidents. I see Gods handy work every time I jump, look around next time. Ask for forgiveness and accept Jesus as your Savior. You tried it your way, now try it His way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jaybird18c 4 #63 May 13, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteThe 10 commandments were mostly ripped off from the Egyptians (Chapter 125 of the ancient Egyptian Book of the Dead) and Babylonians. This is very weak. . Facts are neither strong nor weak. They just are. Mythology, on the other hand, is interesting but is not fact. You seem to have a hard time telling the difference. I do so enjoy your unbiased critical analysis in which you are obviously an expert. I can tell you've really put effort into uncovering the truth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,611 #64 May 13, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteThe 10 commandments were mostly ripped off from the Egyptians (Chapter 125 of the ancient Egyptian Book of the Dead) and Babylonians. This is very weak. . Facts are neither strong nor weak. They just are. Mythology, on the other hand, is interesting but is not fact. You seem to have a hard time telling the difference. I do so enjoy your unbiased critical analysis in which you are obviously an expert. I can tell you've really put effort into uncovering the truth. So where do YOU think the substantive parts of the 10 Commandments originated? Was killing and stealing OK until Moses came down the mountain?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,611 #65 May 13, 2011 QuoteI am amazed how (non-believers) try to go out of their way to disprove something they don t believe in. The burden of proof is on those who make outlandish claims, like an invisible supernatural omnipotent omniscient being that no-one has ever seen, controlling the universe.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jaybird18c 4 #66 May 13, 2011 QuoteSo where do YOU think the substantive parts of the 10 Commandments originated? Was killing and stealing OK until Moses came down the mountain? God's moral standard existed before Moses otherwise those before would have been unjustly punished (e.g. Adam & Eve). God codified the Law for the Hebrew people. It's purpose is to point to Christ. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,611 #67 May 14, 2011 QuoteQuoteSo where do YOU think the substantive parts of the 10 Commandments originated? Was killing and stealing OK until Moses came down the mountain? God's moral standard existed before Moses otherwise those before would have been unjustly punished (e.g. Adam & Eve). God codified the Law for the Hebrew people. It's purpose is to point to Christ. OK, so now your god inspired the Egyptian Book of the Dead, but Moses, who had lived in Egypt, got the rules from a burning bush on a mountainside. You are SO funny it's laughable.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpsalot-2 2 #68 May 14, 2011 Quote Considering how often these two books are talked about, remarkably few people have ever read either... I myself have many times meant to do so but I've never quite gotten around to it... I bet if you watch the two videos below, you will be interested *and* surprised by what can be found in each... Both are excellent speakers who bring up very good points, and they do it with a touch of humour to boot This link examines The Bible: A Christian Letting Go of God. (Bit long, but hang in there - it's worth it IMO.) This one looks at the Koran: An Agnostic Jew Examining The Koran. Quote Wow, that was long. I watched the whole vid though, just to see how it turned out. I thought my neighbor Janet could talk alot, but this woman can gab all day. Funny and so right on the money....People should watch the Koran vtd first...less than 10 minutes. Life is short ... jump often. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 189 #69 May 14, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteSo where do YOU think the substantive parts of the 10 Commandments originated? Was killing and stealing OK until Moses came down the mountain? God's moral standard existed before Moses otherwise those before would have been unjustly punished (e.g. Adam & Eve). God codified the Law for the Hebrew people. It's purpose is to point to Christ. OK, so now your god inspired the Egyptian Book of the Dead, but Moses, who had lived in Egypt, got the rules from a burning bush on a mountainside. You are SO funny it's laughable. It's amazing that a man of 13 years of self proclaimed biblical scholarship can be so deluded with misconceptions of the law...Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cbuilder 0 #70 May 14, 2011 QuoteQuoteI am amazed how (non-believers) try to go out of their way to disprove something they don t believe in. The burden of proof is on those who make outlandish claims, like an invisible supernatural omnipotent omniscient being that no-one has ever seen, controlling the universe. Has anyone ever seen gravity, so if you can t see it, then stop believing in it, jump without a rig. Since you can t see it and don t believe it exist, you should be ok. Faith is believing in something unseen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebabin 0 #71 May 14, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteI am amazed how (non-believers) try to go out of their way to disprove something they don t believe in. The burden of proof is on those who make outlandish claims, like an invisible supernatural omnipotent omniscient being that no-one has ever seen, controlling the universe. Has anyone ever seen gravity, so if you can t see it, then stop believing in it, jump without a rig. Since you can t see it and don t believe it exist, you should be ok. Faith is believing in something unseen I believe in gravity because I've tested it many times and the evidence shows that it exists. The results are consistant and repeatable. "Believing in things unseen" is a typically simplistic definition. (Religious) faith requires suspending rational thought in order to believe. If what the "true believers" spew was the truth, it wouldn't require faith... The results of testing it would be consistant and repeatable. They aren't."Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings." "Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,611 #72 May 14, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteSo where do YOU think the substantive parts of the 10 Commandments originated? Was killing and stealing OK until Moses came down the mountain? God's moral standard existed before Moses otherwise those before would have been unjustly punished (e.g. Adam & Eve). God codified the Law for the Hebrew people. It's purpose is to point to Christ. OK, so now your god inspired the Egyptian Book of the Dead, but Moses, who had lived in Egypt, got the rules from a burning bush on a mountainside. You are SO funny it's laughable. It's amazing that a man of 13 years of self proclaimed biblical scholarship can be so deluded with misconceptions of the law... Apparently you can't actually rebut what I wrote, so the old PA comes out.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,611 #73 May 14, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteI am amazed how (non-believers) try to go out of their way to disprove something they don t believe in. The burden of proof is on those who make outlandish claims, like an invisible supernatural omnipotent omniscient being that no-one has ever seen, controlling the universe. Has anyone ever seen gravity, so if you can t see it, then stop believing in it, jump without a rig. Since you can t see it and don t believe it exist, you should be ok. Faith is believing in something unseen Gravity is testable, measurable, consistent, reproducible. On the other hand, you can't produce a single piece of evidence that your god exists at all.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KidWicked 0 #74 May 14, 2011 QuoteYou found it necessary to qualify your critique in order not to offend any Muslims who might read it. It doesn't seem necessary or even desired to offer the same courtesy here with regard to the Bible and Christians. Just find it interesting. I think this is called the sympathy card? You poor, poor man.Coreece: "You sound like some skinheads I know, but your prejudice is with Christians, not niggers..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cbuilder 0 #75 May 15, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI am amazed how (non-believers) try to go out of their way to disprove something they don t believe in. The burden of proof is on those who make outlandish claims, like an invisible supernatural omnipotent omniscient being that no-one has ever seen, controlling the universe. Has anyone ever seen gravity, so if you can t see it, then stop believing in it, jump without a rig. Since you can t see it and don t believe it exist, you should be ok. Faith is believing in something unseen Gravity is testable, measurable, consistent, reproducible. On the other hand, you can't produce a single piece of evidence that your god exists at all. Proof: the human body, earth, the univers, how can anyone believe there was no Creator, miracles, power of Prayer, prophecy in the Bible, thats evidence. For 20 y i was on the other side saying the same thing, but God took me to a place that I realized I was wrong and Hell is real, eternity is a long time. Don t make your decisions based on what you see on TV or out in the world. Search yourself and ask God to come into your life. My life is not perfect, but Christ has made it better by giving a peace about where i will spend eternity http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3BTtii4fIY Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites