Bin Laden is Dead

[jaybird18c 4]

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Psst!
She is ex-military.

Even worse.

[Nataly 38]

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I wonder if someone would say such things if they'd actually fought for the cause and/or were very close to others who also did and died? I wonder if someone would say such things if their parents, wives/husbands, children were in those buildings which crumbled to the ground in flames? It really disgusts me to hear people criticize America after news like this. However, I do not regret fighting for your right to do so. God bless America!

I've done my (active) military service - what the heck do *you* know about war??

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[rehmwa 2]

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Spec ops guy shot him?? I thought Obama shot him, or was it he gave the orders to fire from his Golf cart. from his supper secret putter phone.

Didn't you see the press conference? "I", "me", "my"

Obama: built the team, trained them, flew the planes, packed the rigs, assembled and cleaned the rifles, led the attack, gave the order to wait, gave the order to shoot, sewed the uniforms, aimed the gun,,, THEN gave permission to pull the trigger (based on a trigger pulling SOP that he wrote). Then he gently pulled all the information from Osama's brain in a mind meld, and lovingly washed and cleaned the body and buried him respectfully.

for the country of course

seriously, he didn't screw this one up, that's a win - he learned from the pirate hostage scenario - the ability to learn is a good thing

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jaybird18c 4]

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I've done my (active) military service - what the heck do *you* know about war??

I know enough to say what I said and mean it.

Added: That is a very bold statment of yours.

[ryoder 1,384]

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I wish nerdgirl still posted here. She would have some terrific thoughts and insight on this.

Hmm....
News reports are that the pieces started fitting together last August.
NerdGirl stopped posting in September.
Coincidence?

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[ryoder 1,384]

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And a shout out to Obama for having the staff to keep this hushed for a month and the balls to order it done.

Now, think about how cool he's been in the last week about the birther issue and at the correspondents' dinner last night. All that time knowing this operation was about to take place.

THAT is one cool mother f'er.

Yes, he looked totally relaxed laughing at Seth's OBL joke: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xun9UYCO7es

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Nataly 38]

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I've done my (active) military service - what the heck do *you* know about war??

I know enough to say what I said and mean it.

Added: That is a very bold statment of yours.

It's not a statement - it's a question. Care to answer?

Look. There are many, many, many wonderful things about America.

There are many, many, many good Americans.

Let's just be honest and say that to promote peace right after killing 4 people is hypocritical. You don't have to agree with me, but what I'm saying is that this act - a violent one - is NOT the solution, in my opinion.

Also, in my opinion, it will take A LOT more than the removal of one person for real progress to occur. And finally, again, in my opinion, The West is part of the problem. To ignore this, I believe, is to carry on on the path of violence.


Edit - format.

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[TriGirl 268]

For this very reason (your discussion with Jay), I really hope we can get an edited video of the operation released soon. I'd like to see (and for everyone to see) exactly how it all went down -- how did it look/happen when asked him to surrender? What was bin Laden doing at the time? Who was the coward who tried to hide behind a woman? what other actions led to her death? (could she have been saved?) how many other people were in the mansion at the time who WEREN'T killed because the house was taken by a live team and not bombed? ...etc.

It would also show, IMHO, the luxurious lifestyle he was living the past several years, while he kept releasing video of himself looking like he was making the sacrifice to live in a cave like many of his followers in that region.

Would it give others the fuel they need to retaliate? Probably. But it's better to have the proof out there than speculation and rumor.

See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

[Amazon 7]

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I've done my (active) military service - what the heck do *you* know about war??

I know enough to say what I said and mean it.

Added: That is a very bold statment of yours.

It's not a statement - it's a question. Care to answer?

Look. There are many, many, many wonderful things about America.

There are many, many, many good Americans.

Let's just be honest and say that to promote peace right after killing 4 people is hypocritical. You don't have to agree with me, but what I'm saying is that this act - a violent one - is NOT the solution, in my opinion.

Also, in my opinion, it will take A LOT more than the removal of one person for real progress to occur. And finally, again, in my opinion, The West is part of the problem. To ignore this, I believe, is to carry on on the path of violence.


Edit - format.

I suppose we COULD hope that the removal of the most rabid of our enemies who declared war on us might allow those with cooler heads to come forward to promote peace.. but I highly doubt it based on how many of those people have trained at Madrassas and have received their schooling from the Salafist fundamentalists with the convert or DIE mantra on their jihaddi lips.

[Nataly 38]

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It would also show, IMHO, the luxurious lifestyle he was living the past several years, while he kept releasing video of himself looking like he was making the sacrifice to live in a cave like many of his followers in that region.

They have shown footage of the place that was raided on Al Jazeera (after the fact). Didn't look AT ALL luxurious to me - far from it. The video has been aired a number of times now - I'm sure if you watch it for a few minutes you will see what I mean - here is the link: Al Jazeera Live (English)

And using the woman as a human shield?? Could be true, but sounds an awful lot like propaganda. The same kind of BS we accuse them of spreading about the "infidels." But it *could* be true...

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[kelpdiver 2]

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I wish nerdgirl still posted here. She would have some terrific thoughts and insight on this.

Hmm....
News reports are that the pieces started fitting together last August.
NerdGirl stopped posting in September.
Coincidence?

Sorry to say, the loss of Marg was self inflicted by this forum. She's alive and posting oodles of factual data in other venues.

[jaybird18c 4]

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It's not a statement - it's a question. Care to answer?

I served many years on an Army Special Forces Operational Detachment, was in Afghanistan in 2002.

[TriGirl 268]

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It would also show, IMHO, the luxurious lifestyle he was living the past several years, while he kept releasing video of himself looking like he was making the sacrifice to live in a cave like many of his followers in that region.

They have shown footage of the place that was raided on Al Jazeera (after the fact). Didn't look AT ALL luxurious to me - far from it. The video has been aired a number of times now - I'm sure if you watch it for a few minutes you will see what I mean - here is the link: Al Jazeera Live (English)

And using the woman as a human shield?? Could be true, but sounds an awful lot like propaganda. The same kind of BS we accuse them of spreading about the "infidels." But it *could* be true...

okay, luxurious compared to a cave, especially during those north Pakistan winters. Walls, heat, beds, carpets -- and a compound with its own fresh produce!

See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

[masterrig 1]

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I've done my (active) military service - what the heck do *you* know about war??

I know enough to say what I said and mean it.

Added: That is a very bold statment of yours.

It's not a statement - it's a question. Care to answer?

Look. There are many, many, many wonderful things about America.

There are many, many, many good Americans.

Let's just be honest and say that to promote peace right after killing 4 people is hypocritical. You don't have to agree with me, but what I'm saying is that this act - a violent one - is NOT the solution, in my opinion.

Also, in my opinion, it will take A LOT more than the removal of one person for real progress to occur. And finally, again, in my opinion, The West is part of the problem. To ignore this, I believe, is to carry on on the path of violence.


Edit - format.

I suppose we COULD hope that the removal of the most rabid of our enemies who declared war on us might allow those with cooler heads to come forward to promote peace.. but I highly doubt it based on how many of those people have trained at Madrassas and have received their schooling from the Salafist fundamentalists with the convert or DIE mantra on their jihaddi lips.

Now that Bin-Hidin' is dead, at U.S. hands, I wonder how long it will be before the bombings and all that begin? Those folks aren't going to take this lying down. Just because he's gone, doesn't mean someone just like him won't pop-up. I'm thinking, this could get real messy.


Chuck

[kelpdiver 2]

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BTW, I think it's pretty sick that people would go out in the middle of the night, head to the White House or Times Square and rejoice. Reminds me of the people in the ME who were rejoicing when the WTC was hit

I agree.

Wendy P.

Uh, the obvious difference is that one group celebrated the killing of civilians, and the other group celebrated the death of the person responsible for these 3000 civilian deaths.

If they were celebrating the death of our previous president because they believe he caused them nothing but anguish, I can't fault them for it. But it's just not the same cheering for killing people who just wanted to fly from Boston to San Francisco.

If you people can't see the difference, then perhaps you need to own up to some serious bias problems (this is directed in particular at some English posters, not Wendy).

[kelpdiver 2]

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Does no one else find it worrying that he *did* get so much help/support?? Does no one else feel that 10 years is a long time to find an internationally recognised/known terrorist?? Agree with his death or not, I find it short-sighted and in very poor taste to shout that this is a "victory."

Of course he got help and support. He's their leader. Same as the Secret Service made Bush unreachable to them, even without the element of a hidden location.

Look at the geography of Afghanistan/Pakistan on a relief map and then tell us it's a trivial matter to find someone.

[kelpdiver 2]

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It's interesting how 'we' think in simplistic terms .... Leader gone = end of organisation .... [pah]

We did it with Sadam and we're doing it with Kadaffi. Get rid of them and the country will be chin deep in clover.... [bollocks]

Circle the wagons and shoot the Chief ... the rest will just bugger off.....

It's like we think that there is a single controlling person in all ... groups/companies/countries/etc...etc...

A lot of organizations rely on a single person. The loss of that person is devastating. Warren Buffet, Steve Jobs, Hitler, probably Ghadaffi. Castro would have been in this category a decade ago.

Others are much more resilient. AQ evolved onward as Bin Laden's need to find made him ineffective in day to day. But he is still, scratch that, WAS, their inspirational leader, and his vision was a bit bigger scale than their's. So yes, it is a loss for them. And justice for us. And a message to future heads who want to take on the US - it's a death sentence.

[Bolas 5]

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I suppose we COULD hope that the removal of the most rabid of our enemies who declared war on us might allow those with cooler heads to come forward to promote peace.. but I highly doubt it based on how many of those people have trained at Madrassas and have received their schooling from the Salafist fundamentalists with the convert or DIE mantra on their jihaddi lips.

Combine that with the CIA training skills they are likely passing on...

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[Bolas 5]

You can't be reasonable with unreasonable people/groups.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[david3 0]

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/wanted_terrorists

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/wanted_terrorists/usama-bin-laden/view

[DaVinci 0]

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I can understand why you think that as you are an American and think like an American

I think like a human.

He was the leader of a terrorist organization. He financed that organization. He targeted civilians all over, not just the US. He was very good at what he did.

Him being dead removes his ability to lead. It creates a power struggle to see who will lead next. The next leader may not be so bold as even OBL was.

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but to his few followers this is not a day of sorrow but a joyful day as to them he has become 'Shaheed' a martyr

Some will, but they thought of him pretty much as a hero already. Some will see that even the hero can be killed. Some might just wonder why Allah didn't protect him (and for 10 years they were claiming that Allah protected him). The hard liners will not waiver no matter what, the middle might feel dejected and confused. Just like elections, it is not the far left or right, but the middle that has the real power.

The fact is that we do not really know what the 'emotional' fallout will be. But there are good arguments for BOTH sides. The fact is that he was a dangerous man in charge of a dangerous organization....

The 'command and supply' if you will has been hit pretty hard, and most see that as a good thing.

[Nataly 38]

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It's not a statement - it's a question. Care to answer?

I served many years on an Army Special Forces Operational Detachment, was in Afghanistan in 2002.

I genuinely don't know what to say to that. Part of me wants to thank you for your service; part of me thinks there is SO MUCH wrong with the deployment of military troops over there.

I am disgusted by many of the things that happened in the Middle East. I am sorry if my opinion on that has disgusted you.

I'm always torn when friends send me "support the soldiers" links/emails. Do I support them?? I don't really know. I'm aware this is very controversial, but I find the whole war-machine rife with contradictions - many of the reasons behind war are NOT honourable, and many of the people there (good intentions or no) are not doing good. So although I wholeheartedly applaud people who go anywhere in a conflict area with the genuine desire to help, I feel despair at the thought of the many atrocities that are the result of the conflict. I simply cannot reconcile the two in my mind. I can't say with complete honesty that I am pro or against what the soldiers/administration are doing.

It's a topic I find difficult to come to terms with - it's just not cut and dry for me. It's with a heavy heart that I heard the news today. I feel for those who lost people (on both sides)... I dread what the response will be, and how the US will be viewed following this event... I cringe at the thought that oppression and terrorism could grow further from this. For me, it's a sad day.

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[DaVinci 0]

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This is a major blow to them... I do not think this could have happened without the bullshit games the Pakistani's have been playing over the last year.... and at this point I am pretty sure our guys got the GO because of the arrest of Americans in the country trying to get REAL intelligence .. not the bullshit the ISI has been trying to spoon feed people for so many years.

Agreed. This time the USIA got it right... Keep everyone in the dark until it is over.

[ryoder 1,384]

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AQ evolved onward as Bin Laden's need to find made him ineffective in day to day.

Ex-CIA agent Robert Baer was interviewed about OBL's death and he had these thoughts:

1. AQ's influence peaked with 9/11 and they have been fading ever since.
He agreed that it had become impossible for OBL to really have input in their plans.

2. The "Arab Spring", i.e. the uprisings in the ME and N Africa, have made AQ completely irrelevant in the grand scheme of Arab politics.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[wmw999 2,121]

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I think like a human.

He was the leader of a terrorist organization. He financed that organization. He targeted civilians all over, not just the US. He was very good at what he did.

That's an American viewpoint. Really.

Yes, you're a human, and so are the terrorists, and the people who send their children out to learn terror, and suicide bombers, and soldiers, and tinkers, tailors, and indian chiefs.

As long as you assume that all other humans see things the way you do, and think the way you do, about superficial things like who thinks who is a terrorist, you'll be making invalid assumptions.

Most people want their children to have a better life than they do. Most people don't want to be hungry. Most people want to have what they think of as shelter. But most people aren't going to think OBL is a terrorist worth going after if he's not affecting them at this particular moment. And if their life sucks, then being told that the next one is better if they do the right things will motivate them. It worked wonders in Christendom during the dark ages, after all. Those were people, too.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)