Nataly 38 #276 May 3, 2011 Quote Quote The raid was at stupid o'clock in the morning... My guess is he was sleeping... If you can sleep through a group of choppers descending on your house, you are a much more sound sleeper than myself. Well, *I* could, but that has a lot to do with being a helicopter mechanic for 7 years!!! "There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield « Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. » - my boss Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #277 May 3, 2011 Quote Quote The raid was at stupid o'clock in the morning... My guess is he was sleeping... If you can sleep through a group of choppers descending on your house, you are a much more sound sleeper than myself. This was in an area where 3 Pakistani Military regiments containing thousands of soldiers were located. It's possible that helicopters were not uncommon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #278 May 3, 2011 QuoteQuoteIf I had to use deadly force, I would not be cheerful/celebrating after doing so... Did you see any of the Seal team guys partying? Please tell me who they are, I'd like to shake their hand. Did you see any of their chain of command hanging by a light-pole, drunk, in front of the White House? Did you see me, or any of these other posters running wild in the streets? Do you have ratios of who went out and partied to those that silently raised a toast to fallen friends/family? Or did you fall hook, line, and sinker into the image the media spoon fed you? Could it be that she was addressing exactly that documented and reported glob of people celebrating and not the misdirection of might-have-beens you listed?My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #279 May 3, 2011 Quote Quote Quote The raid was at stupid o'clock in the morning... My guess is he was sleeping... If you can sleep through a group of choppers descending on your house, you are a much more sound sleeper than myself. This was in an area where 3 Pakistani Military regiments containing thousands of soldiers were located. It's possible that helicopters were not uncommon. The guy blogging as it occurred considered it unusual. As to your question of is the official story a lie...tell me this, if catching him alive wasn't of interest, then why send in troops when we could send a big fucking bomb (fuel air) instead? Besides that, it's really not necessary to tell this lie. No one one earth (that count) cares if he was captured alive or dead. Killing him outright costs you no good will, but being caught lying about it does. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #280 May 3, 2011 QuoteQuoteIt's a topic I find difficult to come to terms with - it's just not cut and dry for me. It's with a heavy heart that I heard the news today. I feel for those who lost people (on both sides)... I dread what the response will be, and how the US will be viewed following this event... I cringe at the thought that oppression and terrorism could grow further from this. For me, it's a sad day. You could not be more wrong. Edited to change my knee-jerk post to this: Nat, you are not wrong in your feelings. I know it took some degree of courage to post them and expose yourself to the ridicule of un-thinking people.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #281 May 3, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote The raid was at stupid o'clock in the morning... My guess is he was sleeping... If you can sleep through a group of choppers descending on your house, you are a much more sound sleeper than myself. This was in an area where 3 Pakistani Military regiments containing thousands of soldiers were located. It's possible that helicopters were not uncommon. The guy blogging as it occurred considered it unusual. As to your question of is the official story a lie...tell me this, if catching him alive wasn't of interest, then why send in troops when we could send a big fucking bomb (fuel air) instead? Besides that, it's really not necessary to tell this lie. No one one earth (that count) cares if he was captured alive or dead. Killing him outright costs you no good will, but being caught lying about it does. Because a big bomb would have risked the lives of innocent people living in the neighborhood. Forget about bin Laden for a minute. Why is it OK to put a bullet in a terrorists brain but not OK to waterboard him? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,381 #282 May 3, 2011 Quote Because a big bomb would have risked the lives of innocent people living in the neighborhood. Not so much innocent people, but this article makes it sound like we would have been effectively attacking the Pakistan military: http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2011/05/notes-on-the-death-of-osama-bin-laden.html"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #283 May 3, 2011 QuoteForget about bin Laden for a minute. Why is it OK to put a bullet in a terrorists brain but not OK to waterboard him? Already been answered up-thread.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #284 May 3, 2011 QuoteQuoteForget about bin Laden for a minute. Why is it OK to put a bullet in a terrorists brain but not OK to waterboard him? Already been answered up-thread. I must have missed it. Where was it answered? I'm not specifically talking about bin Laden. I'm talking about why waterboarding is abhorrent and a bullet to the brain is cause for celebration. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyMarko 1 #285 May 3, 2011 Call me unpatriotic, I'm ready for a bashing and some nasty PM's, but this event really hasn't changed my life at all... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #286 May 3, 2011 QuoteQuote Because a big bomb would have risked the lives of innocent people living in the neighborhood. Not so much innocent people, but this article makes it sound like we would have been effectively attacking the Pakistan military: http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2011/05/notes-on-the-death-of-osama-bin-laden.html I had believed he was a protected guest of the Pakistanis, that article leads me to think I was not wrong. I wonder why Rumsfield called off the hunters when they initially chased him into Pakistan? MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nataly 38 #287 May 3, 2011 Quote Edited to change my knee-jerk post to this: Nat, you are not wrong in your feelings. I know it took some degree of courage to post them and expose yourself to the ridicule of un-thinking people. Well, if we all kept quiet for fear of being criticised by stupid people, no one would ever speak!! Idiots are just everywhere!!! Ok, ok... Kidding aside, the debate thus far has been (relatively) civil. And I appreciate all the people who did challenge/question my views and show me different perspectives (even though I don't agree with all of them). Personally, I don't care if people agree with me or not - but please, criticise the ideas, not the person. That goes for everyone. And if I should ever offend someone with a personal attack, then shame on me too. And thanks Pops "There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield « Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. » - my boss Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebabin 0 #288 May 3, 2011 Quote Call me unpatriotic, I'm ready for a bashing and some nasty PM's, but this event really hasn't changed my life at all... That's cause you were what, 4 years old on 9/11? "Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings." "Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yourmomma 0 #289 May 3, 2011 " There's more to this than is being told." I reckon you are right. Probably Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld snuck in a couple of days ago and filled him full on nano-thermite thus making it impossible to release the body. As we all know beaded steal would than have been recovered from his heart. Opening a whole other can of worms. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyMarko 1 #290 May 3, 2011 Quote Quote Call me unpatriotic, I'm ready for a bashing and some nasty PM's, but this event really hasn't changed my life at all... That's cause you were what, 4 years old on 9/11? GD it Steve. First day back with the interweb and you're already bashing me....(Lemme know if you need anything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #291 May 3, 2011 QuoteI'm talking about why waterboarding is abhorrent and a bullet to the brain is cause for celebration. Apples and oranges. One is literally in the heat of battle against an admitted killer of over 3,000 people. The other is the calculated torture of an individual that may not in fact have the information you only think he does. What the hell is so hard to understand? Oh! I get it. You can't give Obama a win.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebabin 0 #292 May 3, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Call me unpatriotic, I'm ready for a bashing and some nasty PM's, but this event really hasn't changed my life at all... That's cause you were what, 4 years old on 9/11? GD it Steve. First day back with the interweb and you're already bashing me....(Lemme know if you need anything Thanks, Man. We're good here, just some property damage. No injuries in my family/friends."Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings." "Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #293 May 3, 2011 QuoteQuoteI'm talking about why waterboarding is abhorrent and a bullet to the brain is cause for celebration. QuoteApples and oranges. One is literally in the heat of battle against an admitted killer of over 3,000 people. Not if the reports that the primary goal of the mission was to kill him are true. QuoteOfficials described the reaction of the special operators when they were told a number of weeks ago that they had been chosen to train for the mission. “They were told, ‘We think we found Osama bin Laden, and your job is to kill him,’” an official recalled. The SEALs started to cheer. http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0511/54151.html QuoteThe other is the calculated torture of an individual that may not in fact have the information you only think he does. Why not try them? What do you have to lose as opposed to putting a bullet in his brain? QuoteWhat the hell is so hard to understand? Oh! I get it. You can't give Obama a win. Apparently you don't get it. I am very glad the Navy Seals got him. I only question those like you who are so opposed to waterboarding but applaud putting a bullet in a terrorists brain. You remind me of those who are opposed to abortion but see no problem killing doctors to prevent it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,396 #294 May 3, 2011 >Why is it OK to put a bullet in a terrorists brain but not OK to waterboard him? For the same reason it is OK for a cop to put a bullet in a knife-wielding rapist before they capture him (if he refuses to drop the knife) but not cut off his fingers later in the station house. I'm sure you both agree and understand and are just doing your usual. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #295 May 3, 2011 Quote>Why is it OK to put a bullet in a terrorists brain but not OK to waterboard him? For the same reason it is OK for a cop to put a bullet in a knife-wielding rapist before they capture him (if he refuses to drop the knife) but not cut off his fingers later in the station house. I'm sure you both agree and understand and are just doing your usual. What if the cops objective was to kill the rapist from the beginning. What if he had "shoot to kill" orders from the Chief of Police? Are you OK with that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 3 #296 May 3, 2011 QuoteQuote>Why is it OK to put a bullet in a terrorists brain but not OK to waterboard him? For the same reason it is OK for a cop to put a bullet in a knife-wielding rapist before they capture him (if he refuses to drop the knife) but not cut off his fingers later in the station house. I'm sure you both agree and understand and are just doing your usual. What if the cops objective was to kill the rapist from the beginning. What if he had "shoot to kill" orders from the Chief of Police? Are you OK with that? And so begins the new quest of the "Deathers."quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #297 May 3, 2011 What's the matter Quade? Run out of excuses so you resort to belittling? Oh, that's right, the government only lies when it's a Republican President. Here it is again in case you missed it the first time. ***Officials described the reaction of the special operators when they were told a number of weeks ago that they had been chosen to train for the mission. “They were told, ‘We think we found Osama bin Laden, and your job is to kill him,’” an official recalled. The SEALs started to cheer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 3 #298 May 3, 2011 Look man, I'm sorry you cried as a child when the Munchkins celebrated the death of the Wicked Witch of the East. I know that must have traumatized you greatly and that why you have such sympathy for Bin Laden now. But get over it. Pretty much nobody gives a flying poo this crap bag died.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #299 May 3, 2011 QuoteLook man, I'm sorry you cried as a child when the Munchkins celebrated the death of the Wicked Witch of the East. I know that must have traumatized you greatly and that why you have such sympathy for Bin Laden now. But get over it. Pretty much nobody gives a flying poo this crap bag died. Yep, pretty pathetic when you have no response and are incapable of justifying your hypocracy. You can now go back to your Idol Worship in Never-Never Land. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #300 May 3, 2011 Quote And so begins the new quest of the "Deathers." yes, in a never ending quest to not give Obama credit, they'll want the video footage released, giving the enemy a lot of emotional ammunition to use to recruit and attack. All for an irrelevant premise that we really didn't want to bring him back alive. (Which, btw, was the truth with Hussein. When Bush gave his terms 'or else,' he certainly was counting on Hussein not accepting the offer to surrender) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 Next Page 12 of 24 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
billvon 2,396 #294 May 3, 2011 >Why is it OK to put a bullet in a terrorists brain but not OK to waterboard him? For the same reason it is OK for a cop to put a bullet in a knife-wielding rapist before they capture him (if he refuses to drop the knife) but not cut off his fingers later in the station house. I'm sure you both agree and understand and are just doing your usual. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #295 May 3, 2011 Quote>Why is it OK to put a bullet in a terrorists brain but not OK to waterboard him? For the same reason it is OK for a cop to put a bullet in a knife-wielding rapist before they capture him (if he refuses to drop the knife) but not cut off his fingers later in the station house. I'm sure you both agree and understand and are just doing your usual. What if the cops objective was to kill the rapist from the beginning. What if he had "shoot to kill" orders from the Chief of Police? Are you OK with that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #296 May 3, 2011 QuoteQuote>Why is it OK to put a bullet in a terrorists brain but not OK to waterboard him? For the same reason it is OK for a cop to put a bullet in a knife-wielding rapist before they capture him (if he refuses to drop the knife) but not cut off his fingers later in the station house. I'm sure you both agree and understand and are just doing your usual. What if the cops objective was to kill the rapist from the beginning. What if he had "shoot to kill" orders from the Chief of Police? Are you OK with that? And so begins the new quest of the "Deathers."quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #297 May 3, 2011 What's the matter Quade? Run out of excuses so you resort to belittling? Oh, that's right, the government only lies when it's a Republican President. Here it is again in case you missed it the first time. ***Officials described the reaction of the special operators when they were told a number of weeks ago that they had been chosen to train for the mission. “They were told, ‘We think we found Osama bin Laden, and your job is to kill him,’” an official recalled. The SEALs started to cheer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #298 May 3, 2011 Look man, I'm sorry you cried as a child when the Munchkins celebrated the death of the Wicked Witch of the East. I know that must have traumatized you greatly and that why you have such sympathy for Bin Laden now. But get over it. Pretty much nobody gives a flying poo this crap bag died.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #299 May 3, 2011 QuoteLook man, I'm sorry you cried as a child when the Munchkins celebrated the death of the Wicked Witch of the East. I know that must have traumatized you greatly and that why you have such sympathy for Bin Laden now. But get over it. Pretty much nobody gives a flying poo this crap bag died. Yep, pretty pathetic when you have no response and are incapable of justifying your hypocracy. You can now go back to your Idol Worship in Never-Never Land. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #300 May 3, 2011 Quote And so begins the new quest of the "Deathers." yes, in a never ending quest to not give Obama credit, they'll want the video footage released, giving the enemy a lot of emotional ammunition to use to recruit and attack. All for an irrelevant premise that we really didn't want to bring him back alive. (Which, btw, was the truth with Hussein. When Bush gave his terms 'or else,' he certainly was counting on Hussein not accepting the offer to surrender) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
