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How much responsibility does Terry Jones have for the massacre in Afghanistan

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U.N. Staffers Killed in Afghanistan Over Terry Jones Koran Burning, Police Say

Police: 4 Guards, 4 Protestors, 3 U.N. Officials Killed in Violent Attack on U.N. Compound

By NICK SCHIFRIN, AGHA ALEEM, LEE FERRAN and MATT GUTMAN
April 1, 2011

At least eleven people were killed, including some United Nations officials, today in Afghanistan, apparently in response to Florida pastor Terry Jones burning the Koran last month, Afghan police and U.N. officials said.

The deaths followed a protest march in the northern Afghan city of Mazar-i-Sharif today against the Koran burning last month in which Jones supervised while another pastor, Wayne Sapp, soaked the Koran in kerosene and burned it after finding it "guilty" in a mock trial.

Police told ABC News the protest started peacefully but took a violent turn after a radical leader told those gathered that multiple Korans had been burned. In a fury, the people marched on the nearby U.N. compound despite police firing AK-47s into the air in hopes of subduing them.

Police eventually turned their weapons on the protestors, killing at least four, police said, before they were overtaken and had their guns stolen. Using the police weapons, the protestors killed four U.N. guards from Nepal and then three foreign workers in the U.N. building -- a Norwegian, a Romanian and a Swede. An Afghan official said one man has been arrested for his role in allegedly masterminding the attack along with 19 others, according to a report by the Associated Press.

Despite an onslaught of attention Jones garnered when he initially made his threat to burn the Muslim holy book in September 2010 -- including a personal plea from President Barack Obama -- the actual burning of the Koran last month went relatively unnoticed in western media.

In a statement to reporters, Jones was unrepentant and called the U.S. government and the international community to respond to the killings.

"We... find this a very tragic and criminal action. The United States government and the United Nations itself, must take immediate action. We must hold these countries and people accountable for what they have done as well as for any excuses they may use to promote their terrorist activities," the statement said.

President Obama condemned the attack "in the strongest possible terms" in a statement.

"The brave men and women of the United Nations, including the Afghan staff, undertake their work in support of the Afghan people," Obama said. "Their work is essential to building a stronger Afghanistan for the benefit of all its citizens. We stress the importance of calm and urge all parties to reject violence and resolve differences through dialogue."

U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki-moon joined Obama in his condemnation of the attack today.

"This was an outrageous and cowardly attack against U.N. staff, which cannot be justified under any circumstances and I condemn it in the strongest possible terms," Ki-moon said from Kenya, where the U.N said he is making an official visit.

Terry Jones Cancelled Previous Burning in New York

Jones, a pastor from Gainesville, Fla., initially cancelled his plans for the book burning on the ninth anniversary of the September 11 terror attacks. The stunt, according to Jones, was a protest for the Muslim-backed community center that was to be built near the site of the September 11 attacks in New York.

During that incident, Gainesville's mayor told reporters Jones does not speak for the community.

"He's a really fringy character," said Pegeen Hanrahan, a two-term mayor who left office in May. "For every one person in Gainesville who thinks this is a good idea there are a thousand who just think it's ridiculous."

"He's a person who has a congregation that's exceedingly small, maybe 30 or 40 people -- 50 on a good day," Jacki Levine, managing editor of the Gainesville Sun newspaper, said in September. "He is not at all reflective of community he finds himself in."

Spokespersons for the U.S. State Department did not immediately return requests for comment on this report.

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He has the right to say whatever he wants, but if what he says incites rioting and deaths, he's at least in some way responsible.

Inciting to riot is a serious crime in the US. I'm not saying he should be arrested and given five years of jail time, but he is absolutely responsible for inciting a riot. Further, he knew exactly what he was doing and had co-conspirators.

The guy is a fuggin' jackass.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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careful calling it a 'massacre'. Rwanda was a massacre. WWII was a massacre. Hiroshima was a massacre.

Yes what Terry Jones did is reprehensible and he outta be put on trial himself.

But the USA invaded Iraq without any real cause and at least 100,000 civilians are dead.

And then there are stories like this http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_20031001/ai_n11428478/ where Americans react in rage without ever fucking thinking.

Getting wound up about stupid things and then killing people over it is not exclusive to Islamic radicals or anyone else for that matter. The world is full of fucking idiots.

Count to ten.....if that does not work, then count to ten again.

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Perhaps we could get the good pastor and his flock to replace the UN personel who were killed today



No need, they will be happily enjoying the afterlife, sitting around on clouds playing harps.... They are the Blessed:) .........[:/]

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

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He has the right to say whatever he wants, but if what he says incites rioting and deaths, he's at least in some way responsible.

Inciting to riot is a serious crime in the US. I'm not saying he should be arrested and given five years of jail time, but he is absolutely responsible for inciting a riot. Further, he knew exactly what he was doing and had co-conspirators.

The guy is a fuggin' jackass.



I agree with one thing Terry Jones says: "We... find this a very tragic and criminal action. The United States government and the United Nations itself, must take immediate action. We must hold these countries and people accountable for what they have done as well as for any excuses they may use to promote their terrorist activities."

...and one thing quade says: "The guy is a fuggin' jackass."

As far as who bears responibility for the riots and murders: The clerics with their bullhorns and the fanatics who are whipped into a frenzied froth by them. But thankfully, the matter has been severely dealt with by the UN and Ban Ki Moon: He stared at the people who killed for no reason. Who just happened to be feelin' that way without warning. And he spoke through his cloak, most deep and distinguished. And handed out strongly, for penalty and repentance...
..."I condemn it in the strongest possible terms"
But you who philosophize disgrace and criticize all fears ...bury the rag deep in your face for now's the time for your tears.
~B.Dylan (mostly)

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He's no more responsible for those killings than the woman whose abusive husband beats her because she "pissed him off" is responsible, or the kid whom the bully beats up on "because he looked at him funny."

I agree, though, that Terry Jones is a complete jackass. I hope to hear a hue and cry from Christian clerics condemning his actions.

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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The guy is a friggin jackass. But I think that there is some pretty sketchy territory we're getting into.

Terry Jones burned some Korans on the other side of the world weeks ago. Then, some guy gets up at a peaceful protest and says something to the effect of, "Just reporting a fact. Some guy in America a while back burned some Korans. Indeed, he has a right to free speech and we must all be tolerant of this right."

For some reason I don't think that it was said in this way. In fact I'll posit that the vitriol coming from the proximate incitor was what led to it - Terry Jones' penis wrinkle activites merely being something useful.

What's next? Blaming Sarah Palin when a nutcase shoots a Congresswoman?


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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The guy is a friggin jackass.



Terry Jones and his supporters are world class Jackasses. But there is no excuse for what these animals in Afghanistan have done. Freedom of religion is still worth pursuing, but so is freedom from religion.


Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

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He has the right to say whatever he wants, but if what he says incites rioting and deaths, he's at least in some way responsible.

Inciting to riot is a serious crime in the US. I'm not saying he should be arrested and given five years of jail time, but he is absolutely responsible for inciting a riot. Further, he knew exactly what he was doing and had co-conspirators.

The guy is a fuggin' jackass.



Or how bout we point the finger at the cave-dwelling jackholes that think violence is an acceptable answer to somebody having a dissenting opinion of your religious views? Everybody in this part of the world is an over-sensitive baby, they cry over the slightest thing and feel that violence is the only way to make up for it. I've seen families kill each other over here over things so minuscule most right minded people wouldn't give it a second look. There is a reason this region is still living in the stone age despite having the natural resources to thrive. Maybe we should blame the creators of South Park for 9-11 because they made fun of all the world's religions at some point.
Honestly I'd be willing to bet that the media was straining to find a reason behind the protests and just threw in the book burning to make news. All this does is make the west less sympathetic to their plight.
History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

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He has the right to say whatever he wants, but if what he says incites rioting and deaths, he's at least in some way responsible.

Inciting to riot is a serious crime in the US. I'm not saying he should be arrested and given five years of jail time, but he is absolutely responsible for inciting a riot. Further, he knew exactly what he was doing and had co-conspirators.

The guy is a fuggin' jackass.



Or how bout we point the finger at the cave-dwelling jackholes that think violence is an acceptable answer to somebody having a dissenting opinion of your religious views?



What's the old saw about pointing fingers? Something about a few being pointed backward at one's self?

I'm not saying he's the ONLY responsible party, but he IS responsible for being a world class jackass.

Lemme ask you this . . . when is the last time YOU did something that people 5,000 miles away got so upset about they killed people at random over? Never? My point exactly. Jones was doing this for the explicit purpose of pissing off people int he middle-east.

He's a jackass that isn't helping anyone.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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He has the right to say whatever he wants, but if what he says incites rioting and deaths, he's at least in some way responsible.

Inciting to riot is a serious crime in the US. I'm not saying he should be arrested and given five years of jail time, but he is absolutely responsible for inciting a riot. Further, he knew exactly what he was doing and had co-conspirators.

The guy is a fuggin' jackass.



Or how bout we point the finger at the cave-dwelling jackholes that think violence is an acceptable answer to somebody having a dissenting opinion of your religious views?



What's the old saw about pointing fingers? Something about a few being pointed backward at one's self?

I'm not saying he's the ONLY responsible party, but he IS responsible for being a world class jackass.

Lemme ask you this . . . when is the last time YOU did something that people 5,000 miles away got so upset about they killed people at random over? Never? My point exactly. Jones was doing this for the explicit purpose of pissing off people int he middle-east.

He's a jackass that isn't helping anyone.



First off, I agree that he is a jackass. He absolutely knew (or should have known) that there would more than likely be a violent reaction to his actions.

But being a first class jackass isn't a crime. And he didn't commit the crime of "Incitement to Riot."

He committed a hateful, insulting, despicable act of free speech.

If someone burned the US flag in (for example) Venezuela, and a bunch of American Legionairres went and attacked the Venezuelan Embassy, who would have committed the crime?

And if it started off as a peaceful protest, but some asshat in the crowd whipped them up into a frenzy and that ignited the violence, who would have committed the crime of "Incitement to Riot"?

The flag burners in Venezuela? Or the asshat in the crowd?

Sure, the extremist Muslims are known for their rather violent reactions to any percieved insult to Islam, but does that make insulting Islam "Incitement to Riot"?
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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Sure, the extremist Muslims are known for their rather violent reactions to any percieved insult to Islam, but does that make insulting Islam "Incitement to Riot"?



Further up you wrote;
He absolutely knew (or should have known) that there would more than likely be a violent reaction to his actions.

Isn't that kind of the definition of incitement?
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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Sure, the extremist Muslims are known for their rather violent reactions to any percieved insult to Islam, but does that make insulting Islam "Incitement to Riot"?



Further up you wrote;
He absolutely knew (or should have known) that there would more than likely be a violent reaction to his actions.

Isn't that kind of the definition of incitement?



I don't think so.

He wasn't there at the riot.
He didn't speak directly to the crowd at the riot.

He didn't directly urge the crowd to riot.

http://www.lectlaw.com/def/i022.htm

This is the best I could do with a quick search. He burned a Koran. He didn't say "You guys should hurt and kill people."

A rough equivalent would be calling someone's mother a whore. It would be very likely to provoke a punch in the face.
The pucher would have committed an assault. The "caller" wouldn't have.

The "caller" would be an asshat who probably deserved a punch in the face. But having to deal with an asshat who deserved a punch in the face isn't a valid defense against an assault charge.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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He has the right to say whatever he wants, but if what he says incites rioting and deaths, he's at least in some way responsible.

Inciting to riot is a serious crime in the US. I'm not saying he should be arrested and given five years of jail time, but he is absolutely responsible for inciting a riot. Further, he knew exactly what he was doing and had co-conspirators.

The guy is a fuggin' jackass.



Or how bout we point the finger at the cave-dwelling jackholes that think violence is an acceptable answer to somebody having a dissenting opinion of your religious views?



What's the old saw about pointing fingers? Something about a few being pointed backward at one's self?

I'm not saying he's the ONLY responsible party, but he IS responsible for being a world class jackass.

Lemme ask you this . . . when is the last time YOU did something that people 5,000 miles away got so upset about they killed people at random over? Never? My point exactly. Jones was doing this for the explicit purpose of pissing off people int he middle-east.

He's a jackass that isn't helping anyone.



Yep
He is a jackass

but the real story is the idiots who kill each other over the burning of a book

This shows however, the real fanaticism over a religion, and illustrates why they are so fucking stupid dangerous.

(not all those that believe, but those who are in the streets practicing what they believe)
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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Sure, the extremist Muslims are known for their rather violent reactions to any percieved insult to Islam, but does that make insulting Islam "Incitement to Riot"?



Further up you wrote;
He absolutely knew (or should have known) that there would more than likely be a violent reaction to his actions.

Isn't that kind of the definition of incitement?



He incited nothing

But you use this to pratice you kind of bigotry and PC
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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The people of Afghanistan live totally different lifestyles than we do. There is no Walmart, there is no target, there's not ANYYYTHING. These people cling to religion because that is the only thing they have in that country. Terry is 100% responsible for what went on. He's been warned about what this could do. And as far as the Qur'an being guilty of murder, rape etc. I think he should go read his own book and put that one on "Trial".

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So when they "cling" to thier religion is it a good thing

But Obama does not seem to think it is a good thing here


Oh
And Jones has nothing to do with the idiots killing each other

Their acts speak only to them and what they are

Nothing more
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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Let me think of other examples.

Negro boys should have known better than to look at white women way back when. The racist crackers that lynched so many of them were without fault. The fault laid 100% with the assholes who would dare insult white people.

The jerks who wear San Diego jerseys to Raiders games know that they are risking lives in doing so. They are 100% responsible for any stabbing.

The Rodney King jurors are 100% responsible for the LA Riots. They knew or should have known that acquitting those cops would cause deaths and destruction.

Hurricane Katrina knew damned well that when it hit New Orleans that people would murder and loot. It should have instead hit Japan where people are tolerant and can handle such insults.


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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He has the right to say whatever he wants, but if what he says incites rioting and deaths, he's at least in some way responsible.

Inciting to riot is a serious crime in the US. I'm not saying he should be arrested and given five years of jail time, but he is absolutely responsible for inciting a riot. Further, he knew exactly what he was doing and had co-conspirators.

The guy is a fuggin' jackass.



I think some people like to goad and taunt others into doing something stupid. I think that he WANTED violent reaction and would probably go so far as to say that he would have liked to see that reaction as a terrorist attack on US soil. Some people are twisted and need to justify their beliefs by any means possible.

Me I'd be tempted to burn a few bibles or crosses on Terrys doorstep. I have a sneaky feeling that his reaction would not be to far different to the same extremists he tries to wind up.
Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

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Let me think of other examples.

Negro boys should have known better than to look at white women way back when. The racist crackers that lynched so many of them were without fault. The fault laid 100% with the assholes who would dare insult white people.

The jerks who wear San Diego jerseys to Raiders games know that they are risking lives in doing so. They are 100% responsible for any stabbing.

The Rodney King jurors are 100% responsible for the LA Riots. They knew or should have known that acquitting those cops would cause deaths and destruction.

Hurricane Katrina knew damned well that when it hit New Orleans that people would murder and loot. It should have instead hit Japan where people are tolerant and can handle such insults.



C'mon, Jerry, what awful analogies. The King jurors (to take one example) did not act with the intent to incite a riot. Terry Jones, by contrast, intended to deliberately provoke a violent reaction from gullible, uneducated people, for the selfish purpose of his own personal aggrandizement and enrichment. Many people can't see the difference, or act like they can't, but I can, and I'm quite sure you can, too. Please don't act like you can't see the nuances here.

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