Christian bikers shield soldiers funeral from protesters.

[stevebabin 0]

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Do you believe that the trinity of Jesus Christ, the Holy Father, and the Holy Ghost is the only true God? If so, you must accept that the Hindu is either lying, delusional, or God has tricked him. None of those cases allows you to accept his statement and not change you own beliefs.

You're asking a delusional person to make sense...I wouldn't get your hopes up for a meaningful answer.

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[DanG 1]

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I am a professionally trained counselor. Yes, I am allowed.

This is why religious people are so maddening. You ask them a simple question, and they never give a straight answer.

If my point is not obvious enough, here it is: your personal experiences can't be taken as evidence by anybody but yourself. Stop trying to claim you have evidence of the existence of God. Just man up and admit that your faith is based on faith. It's okay, I really don't care what you believe, but to insinuate that other people are being foolish by ignoring your evidence is obnoxious.

- Dan G

[RonD1120 58]

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I am a professionally trained counselor. Yes, I am allowed.

This is why religious people are so maddening. You ask them a simple question, and they never give a straight answer.

If my point is not obvious enough, here it is: your personal experiences can't be taken as evidence by anybody but yourself. Stop trying to claim you have evidence of the existence of God. Just man up and admit that your faith is based on faith. It's okay, I really don't care what you believe, but to insinuate that other people are being foolish by ignoring your evidence is obnoxious.

My faith is based on my spiritual study and my spiritual experience. I share what I have learned and experienced. I do not care whether you like it, accept it or hate it.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[rehmwa 2]

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Stop trying to claim you have evidence of the existence of God. Just man up and admit that your faith is based on faith. It's okay, I really don't care what you believe, but to insinuate that other people are being foolish by ignoring your evidence is obnoxious.

Ok - I'm all in agreement with this one.

religion (including atheism too) is just a belief with no proof BY DEFINITION (the actual definition of "faith")

+100

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

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My faith is based on my spiritual study and my spiritual experience. I share what I have learned and experienced. I do not care whether you like it, accept it or hate it.

faith is belief without proof - to claim to have ANY kind of evidence is contrary to true faith

if you are sincere in your belief all you should require is your personal need to believe as you do - that should suffice - cripes, it's the FOUNDATION of all the creator-based religions

and there's nothing wrong with that - so I'm always confused why believers take offense at the "you can't prove it" argument. they should be proud of the strength of your convictions

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rushmc 18]

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I am a professionally trained counselor. Yes, I am allowed.

This is why religious people are so maddening. You ask them a simple question, and they never give a straight answer.

If my point is not obvious enough, here it is: your personal experiences can't be taken as evidence by anybody but yourself. Stop trying to claim you have evidence of the existence of God. Just man up and admit that your faith is based on faith. It's okay, I really don't care what you believe, but to insinuate that other people are being foolish by ignoring your evidence is obnoxious.

Add to his answer

Your position is no different than his from the stand point is you can not prove your position either

Yet you argue it just as vociferously

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[RonD1120 58]

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My faith is based on my spiritual study and my spiritual experience. I share what I have learned and experienced. I do not care whether you like it, accept it or hate it.

faith is belief without proof - to claim to have ANY kind of evidence is contrary to true faith

if you are sincere in your belief all you should require is your personal need to believe as you do - that should suffice - cripes, it's the FOUNDATION of all the creator-based religions

and there's nothing wrong with that - so I'm always confused why believers take offense at the "you can't prove it" argument. they should be proud of the strength of your convictions

Amen. Well stated.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[rushmc 18]

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My faith is based on my spiritual study and my spiritual experience. I share what I have learned and experienced. I do not care whether you like it, accept it or hate it.

faith is belief without proof - to claim to have ANY kind of evidence is contrary to true faith

if you are sincere in your belief all you should require is your personal need to believe as you do - that should suffice - cripes, it's the FOUNDATION of all the creator-based religions

and there's nothing wrong with that - so I'm always confused why believers take offense at the "you can't prove it" argument. they should be proud of the strength of your convictions

Amen. Well stated.

Your faith is refreshing

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DanG 1]

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Your position is no different than his from the stand point is you can not prove your position either

Yet you argue it just as vociferously

I have never, ever, ever claimed to have evidence related to the existence of God. My position, which is clearly different from Ron's, is that no such evidence exists either way.

I don't argue very vociferously about this at all, you must have me confused with someone else. I just don't like to be told that I'm ignoring evidence that doesn't exist.

- Dan G

[rushmc 18]

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Your position is no different than his from the stand point is you can not prove your position either

Yet you argue it just as vociferously

I have never, ever, ever claimed to have evidence related to the existence of God. My position, which is clearly different from Ron's, is that no such evidence exists either way.

I don't argue very vociferously about this at all, you must have me confused with someone else. I just don't like to be told that I'm ignoring evidence that doesn't exist.

Without going through the thread I will give you what you say

Yet you debate him with as much to gain or lose as him.

Why?

Know that I argue neither side as I know there is no point in doing so. But, it is true there are those here who argue with as much passion against those of no faith as those of faith do

It seems a waste of time to me

If I missed your point forgive me. I did not intend to

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Coreece 190]

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Most people I know who were "saved" as adults got "saved" during periods of extreme stress in their lives. It makes me think that it's some kind of mental coping mechanism rather than anything supernatural.

Oh, ok...I'll add that to the Babinian statement of faith:

"We believe in one unholy Babinian non-church where we voraciously contend that all theists are first and foremost Inferior to the Great Babini. From thence, they are uneducated, dillusional, suffer from hallucinations and are maronic...unless of course they are not uneducated, dillusional, suffer from hallucinations nor moronic. In such a case they are just edowed with a mental coping mechanism given them by father Darwin through chance happenstance in order to reduce stress levels and limit mandatory suicide. This in no way shall suggest that these mutants are any more superior to the Great Babini than their less fortunate derranged counterparts, nor shall this phenomena ever be construed in a manner to suggest that God had anything to do with it either in eternities past, present, or future, nor retroactively though divine intervention.

We believe this with all heart soul and mind because we have absolutely no proof or evidence, nor have we conducted any experiment to validate our arrogant claims, nor are we even qualified to do so nor understand wtf we're talking about.

Amen"

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[stevebabin 0]

Amen

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[rehmwa 2]

If religion is one guy's coping mechanism for a stressor?

more power to him if it works

It's not for me, but I don't much care either way if it for him. I won't belittle him on something unprovable - that's just petty

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[stevebabin 0]

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If religion is one guy's coping mechanism for a stressor?

more power to him if it works

It's not for me, but I don't much care either way if it for him. I won't belittle him on something unprovable - that's just petty

I dont' begrudge him for it either...until he tries to bill it as the truth.

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[rehmwa 2]

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If religion is one guy's coping mechanism for a stressor?

more power to him if it works

It's not for me, but I don't much care either way if it for him. I won't belittle him on something unprovable - that's just petty

I dont' begrudge him for it either...until he tries to bill it as the truth.

I have no issue with that

I can also deal with it if he bills it as "his" truth.

Though I think it's more pure/honest for him to bill it as his Belief/Faith (ditto for atheists).

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rushmc 18]

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If religion is one guy's coping mechanism for a stressor?

more power to him if it works

It's not for me, but I don't much care either way if it for him. I won't belittle him on something unprovable - that's just petty

I dont' begrudge him for it either...until he tries to bill it as the truth.

Does he do that any more or less than you make yours?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[stevebabin 0]

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If religion is one guy's coping mechanism for a stressor?

more power to him if it works

It's not for me, but I don't much care either way if it for him. I won't belittle him on something unprovable - that's just petty

I dont' begrudge him for it either...until he tries to bill it as the truth.

Does he do that any more or less than you make yours?

Doesn't matter...I'm not the one trying to convince people that my imaginary friend is real and that everyone should worship him.

While we're at it, there is such a thing as reality, and it exists regardless of our "take" on it. (my take included) The fact that the "true believers" can't back up what they believe with any objective evidence speaks volumes.

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[rushmc 18]

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If religion is one guy's coping mechanism for a stressor?

more power to him if it works

It's not for me, but I don't much care either way if it for him. I won't belittle him on something unprovable - that's just petty

I dont' begrudge him for it either...until he tries to bill it as the truth.

Does he do that any more or less than you make yours?

Doesn't matter...I'm not the one trying to convince people that my imaginary friend is real and that everyone should worship him.

While we're at it, there is such a thing as reality, and it exists regardless of our "take" on it. (my take included) The fact that the "true believers" can't back up what they believe with any objective evidence speaks volumes.

Your argument here is NO different than theirs
You can no more prove your reality than they can theirs.

Yours is as much a religion as theirs is.

You can back up with any objective evidence that a god does not exist

That is why those so intent on their point of view argue with the emotional level as I have seen you do here

No difference IMO

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[stevebabin 0]

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You can back up with any objective evidence that a god does not exist

Or unicorns.
Or Russels teapot. (google it if you don't already know)

The difference is that I'm not the one claiming something exists. The burden of proof lies with them.

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[rushmc 18]

The burden of proof lies with them.

[rushmc 18]

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You can back up with any objective evidence that a god does not exist

Or unicorns.
Or Russels teapot. (google it if you don't already know)

The difference is that I'm not the one claiming something exists. The burden of proof lies with them.

Oh

and Russels tea pot analogy does not fit here between you and i

I am not arguing for or against a god

I am only saying both sides of the issue are no different

Being an atheist or a agnostic is no different than being a christian or Muslim when it comes to the argument

All are religions. they just have different beliefs that they push on each other and who complain when differing points of view are pushed on them

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,396]

>Being an atheist or a agnostic is no different than being a christian or
>Muslim when it comes to the argument

>All are religions.

That's like claiming that freeflyers, CRW jumpers and whuffos are all skydivers.

[stevebabin 0]

Rush, is there anything you think doesn't exist?
(this is a great set up for so many jokes....Can you prove that something doesn't exist?

It is up to those making the claim that something exists to offer evidence....They haven't.
I claim bullshit.
They counter with everything except evidence.
My claim of bullshit stands.

Does anyone have anything of substance to add to the discussion?

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[stevebabin 0]

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>Being an atheist or a agnostic is no different than being a christian or
>Muslim when it comes to the argument

>All are religions.

That's like claiming that freeflyers, CRW jumpers and whuffos are all skydivers.

+1

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[JohnnyMarko 1]

Steve, do you think I'm fucked up?