Why are zygote, embryo and fetus simply synonyms for human being?

[rushmc 18]

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It's only racist if people are the victims, not the choosers. Based on some other threads, birth control would seem to be a racist practice against white people.

Wendy P.

I guess my perspective is the children

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[wmw999 2,116]

Well, is birth control also racist?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rushmc 18]

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Well, is birth control also racist?

Wendy P.

A baby never started is not abortion

Pregnancy prevention IMO is another debate along relious lines
It seemed that this thread was really not intended to go along those lines

correct?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[shermanator 3]

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>Who gets to decide when the cell mass becomes more? When it is a human life and
>not before? You?

Like I said - the mother. You can certainly have an opinion, but unless you're the one carrying the child, it doesn't mean all that much.

so then can a mother decide, at age 6 months, it is still just mass of cells, and terminate the infant?

CLICK HERE! new blog posted 9/21/08
CSA #720

[billvon 2,384]

>So the mother alone decides when the child mass she is carrying is a human life or not

Yes.

>So if she has it's life functions ended at the end of a full term pregnancy but before
>it takes a breath, you are ok with that?

No. Once the child is born and has a functioning brain, heartbeat etc then it is a child, with all the rights a child has.

[billvon 2,384]

>A baby never started is not abortion

Many IUD's allow pregnancies to "be started." The fertilized egg just never implants.

[rushmc 18]

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>So the mother alone decides when the child mass she is carrying is a human life or not

Yes.

>So if she has it's life functions ended at the end of a full term pregnancy but before
>it takes a breath, you are ok with that?

No. Once the child is born and has a functioning brain, heartbeat etc then it is a child, with all the rights a child has.

The brain function and heartbeat all are happening well before the full term timeline

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,384]

>>No. Once the child is born and has a functioning brain, heartbeat etc then it is a child,
>> with all the rights a child has.

>The brain function and heartbeat all are happening well before the full term timeline

Agreed.

[wmw999 2,116]

There are laws to prevent that right now.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rushmc 18]

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>A baby never started is not abortion

Many IUD's allow pregnancies to "be started." The fertilized egg just never implants.

I understand

Something to consider

That also happens naturally quite often

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[wmw999 2,116]

So do miscarriages

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[kallend 1,621]

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>And I will ask you Wendy, who gets to decide?

The mother and her doctor (mainly the mother.) She will take the responsibility for the child, and will risk her health to bring it to term; she gets to make the call.

That is not what I asked her

So just to help you out

Who gets to decide when the cell mass becomes more? When it is a human life and not before?

You?

Certainly not you, nor any other male, should have jurisdiction over what any woman does with her own body. It simply is none of your business.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,621]

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>So the mother alone decides when the child mass she is carrying is a human life or not

Yes.

>So if she has it's life functions ended at the end of a full term pregnancy but before
>it takes a breath, you are ok with that?

No. Once the child is born and has a functioning brain, heartbeat etc then it is a child, with all the rights a child has.

The brain function and heartbeat all are happening well before the full term timeline

It isn't a human until it has a birth certificate, SSN and gets a tax deduction for its parents. It's called "delivery" for a reason. The mother delivers it to the world. Until then it's her business.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 18]

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>And I will ask you Wendy, who gets to decide?

The mother and her doctor (mainly the mother.) She will take the responsibility for the child, and will risk her health to bring it to term; she gets to make the call.

That is not what I asked her

So just to help you out

Who gets to decide when the cell mass becomes more? When it is a human life and not before?

You?

Certainly not you, nor any other male, should have jurisdiction over what any woman does with her own body. It simply is none of your business.

I understand your point here

I would just make it while being less of an ass

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

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>So the mother alone decides when the child mass she is carrying is a human life or not

Yes.

>So if she has it's life functions ended at the end of a full term pregnancy but before
>it takes a breath, you are ok with that?

No. Once the child is born and has a functioning brain, heartbeat etc then it is a child, with all the rights a child has.

The brain function and heartbeat all are happening well before the full term timeline

It isn't a human until it has a birth certificate, SSN and gets a tax deduction for its parents. It's called "delivery" for a reason. The mother delivers it to the world. Until then it's her business.

Bullshit

But it is easy to understand why you would put it that way

And your post here does show how you put a value on a life

If you can make or save tax moneis then it (a life) has value

Glad you can live with that

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Nightingale 0]

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>Who gets to decide when the cell mass becomes more? When it is a human life and
>not before? You?

Like I said - the mother. You can certainly have an opinion, but unless you're the one carrying the child, it doesn't mean all that much.

So the mother alone decides when the child mass she is carrying is a human life or not

So if she has it's life functions ended at the end of a full term pregnancy but before it takes a breath, you are ok with that?

(yes this is an extreme example but a real one today)

It is human life from the very beginning. The cells are human (a simple DNA test will tell you that), and they are alive. Therefore, human life.

However, I don't see why that's even part of the debate. It's a red herring. It's human. It's alive. It's a baby. It's a fetus. It's a zygote. an embryo. a child. So what? The terminology clouds the issue. On both sides. The issue is this:

It's inside the mother. Therefore, though it is human life and has certain rights under the law (generally, not to be killed on purpose without the mother's express wish) because it is inside the mother, her rights trump the baby's rights. PERIOD. It's in her body, so she decides if it stays there.

Unfortunately, at our current level of technology, taking it out means killing it. If we someday get the technology to raise an embryo through all the stages of development through birth in the absence of a woman to carry it around for nine months, then my opinion will become: It's in her body, so she decides if it stays there or is removed elsewhere to mature.

[billvon 2,384]

>It is human life from the very beginning. The cells are human (a simple
>DNA test will tell you that), and they are alive. Therefore, human life.

Well, at that level of definition, a brain tumor is human life.

>The terminology clouds the issue.

Agreed. It really doesn't matter what terminology you use.

[rushmc 18]

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>Who gets to decide when the cell mass becomes more? When it is a human life and
>not before? You?

Like I said - the mother. You can certainly have an opinion, but unless you're the one carrying the child, it doesn't mean all that much.

So the mother alone decides when the child mass she is carrying is a human life or not

So if she has it's life functions ended at the end of a full term pregnancy but before it takes a breath, you are ok with that?

(yes this is an extreme example but a real one today)

It is human life from the very beginning. The cells are human (a simple DNA test will tell you that), and they are alive. Therefore, human life.

However, I don't see why that's even part of the debate. It's a red herring. It's human. It's alive. It's a baby. It's a fetus. It's a zygote. an embryo. a child. So what? The terminology clouds the issue. On both sides. The issue is this:

It's inside the mother. Therefore, though it is human life and has certain rights under the law (generally, not to be killed on purpose without the mother's express wish) because it is inside the mother, her rights trump the baby's rights. PERIOD. It's in her body, so she decides if it stays there.

Unfortunately, at our current level of technology, taking it out means killing it. If we someday get the technology to raise an embryo through all the stages of development through birth in the absence of a woman to carry it around for nine months, then my opinion will become: It's in her body, so she decides if it stays there or is removed elsewhere to mature.

You keep enforcing the reason I like you so much

Yes, I agree with all you post here

I filter too much with today political and cultural realities

And I guess I respect the will and the rights of a women (maybe) too much to not consider their will

But, I think life begins at the moment

I think it is killing a life to end it

Thanks

Reality is very strong is it not

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

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>It is human life from the very beginning. The cells are human (a simple
>DNA test will tell you that), and they are alive. Therefore, human life.

Well, at that level of definition, a brain tumor is human life.

>The terminology clouds the issue.

Agreed. It really doesn't matter what terminology you use.

Sorry Bill

It is much more than that

At least IMO

To say other is to minimize life

Look at kallends example

Talk about putting a price on a life

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[wmw999 2,116]

Kallend meant his comment just as literally as rehmwa meant his (and winsor probably, too).

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[maadmax 0]

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>It is human life from the very beginning. The cells are human (a simple
>DNA test will tell you that), and they are alive. Therefore, human life.

Well, at that level of definition, a brain tumor is human life.

>The terminology clouds the issue.

Agreed. It really doesn't matter what terminology you use.

I would have thought confusing the issue with semantics, because you obviously lacked an adequate response, was beneath you. The physiology of an embryo is totally separate from it's mother. For better or worse it is how we enter this world. The embryo is inside its mother but not part of her, it is a totally distinct human life. Embryo is just a term describing that stage of human life. Much like baby, child, adolescent, teenager, adult. Providing nourishment through and umbilical cord is no less dehumanizing that giving the new born a bottle.


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[rushmc 18]

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Kallend meant his comment just as literally as rehmwa meant his (and winsor probably, too).

Wendy P.

I am sorry Wendy
You are going to have to explain your comments about them to me

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,384]

>The physiology of an embryo is totally separate from it's mother.

?? Uh, no, it's not. The embryo gets oxygen and nutrition from its mother. If the mother drinks alcohol, the embryo is exposed as well, because their physiologies are very intimately connected.

>Providing nourishment through and umbilical cord is no less dehumanizing that giving
>the new born a bottle.

Agreed. Neither one "dehumanizes" anything.

[wmw999 2,116]

Looking back, I misspoke. Kallend said that he believes that personhood starts at emergence from the womb (which is, in fact, generally accompanied by tax deduction, birth certificate, and SSN). The tax deduction is an American artifact; the point wasn't financial, it was about timing. I think that his opinion would be the same if asked about countries which don't give tax deductions based on children.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rushmc 18]

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Looking back, I misspoke. Kallend said that he believes that personhood starts at emergence from the womb (which is, in fact, generally accompanied by tax deduction, birth certificate, and SSN). The tax deduction is an American artifact; the point wasn't financial, it was about timing. I think that his opinion would be the same if asked about countries which don't give tax deductions based on children.

Wendy P.

which confirms the fact that money considerations are all that matter to him as to when life starts

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln