Kennedy 0 #1 February 19, 2011 Why No One Should Ever Trust the ATF: There Is No Iron River (the lie of American guns in Mexican crimes) QuoteI’m not sure what bright spark at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosive (and Really Big Fires) came up with the term “Iron River.” Maybe it was a journalist, and the ATF simply glommed on to the term. But it’s an excellent moniker: an easy-to-remember nickname for a trade that no God-fearing, tax-paying, freedom-loving American would support. Who wants thousands of highly deadly assault rifles flowing from the U.S. to Mexico, into the hands of ruthless criminals? Nobody (except maybe evil gun dealers and rapacious gunmakers). So who you gonna call? The ATF! Truth be told, the Iron River was an immediate hit. Not-so-coincidentally, the ATF picked-up the metaphor and ran with it. Since early last year, the agency’s press releases have constantly made mention of the so-called Iron River. Call it branding, sloganeering, or the Big Lie. Say something often enough and people believe it. If the federal agency charged with policing American gun sales keeps talking about an Iron River of illegal gun sales, if the media repeats the menacing meme like a well-meaning mantra, an iron river there must be. snip JPFO page on BATFE BATFE says a shoestring is a machinegun "Shhh! It's a secret!" ATF approves 13,000 unregistered suppressors for import, allows them to be sold, and then changes their minds. And that is how they can change their minds, or reinterpret some ambiguous wording, and suddenly create instant federal felons out of folks who followed every law and had no criminal intent whatsoever.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,611 #2 February 20, 2011 QuoteWhy No One Should Ever Trust the ATF: There Is No Iron River (the lie of American guns in Mexican crimes) QuoteI’m not sure what bright spark at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosive (and Really Big Fires) came up with the term “Iron River.” Maybe it was a journalist, and the ATF simply glommed on to the term. But it’s an excellent moniker: an easy-to-remember nickname for a trade that no God-fearing, tax-paying, freedom-loving American would support. Who wants thousands of highly deadly assault rifles flowing from the U.S. to Mexico, into the hands of ruthless criminals? Nobody (except maybe evil gun dealers and rapacious gunmakers). So who you gonna call? The ATF! Truth be told, the Iron River was an immediate hit. Not-so-coincidentally, the ATF picked-up the metaphor and ran with it. Since early last year, the agency’s press releases have constantly made mention of the so-called Iron River. Call it branding, sloganeering, or the Big Lie. Say something often enough and people believe it. If the federal agency charged with policing American gun sales keeps talking about an Iron River of illegal gun sales, if the media repeats the menacing meme like a well-meaning mantra, an iron river there must be. snip JPFO page on BATFE BATFE says a shoestring is a machinegun "Shhh! It's a secret!" ATF approves 13,000 unregistered suppressors for import, allows them to be sold, and then changes their minds. And that is how they can change their minds, or reinterpret some ambiguous wording, and suddenly create instant federal felons out of folks who followed every law and had no criminal intent whatsoever. Well, those ATFE inspectors have to do something to stay busy, now that the courts have ruled they can't ban APCP rocket motors.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #3 February 21, 2011 Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a gov't agency.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #4 February 21, 2011 Just remember, they're the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms Explosives and Really Big Fires. BATFERBF. And anything else they want to stick their unwelcome noses into...witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,611 #5 February 21, 2011 QuoteJust remember, they're the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms Explosives and Really Big Fires. BATFERBF. And anything else they want to stick their unwelcome noses into... The courts told them they couldn't stick their noses in APCP rocket fuel.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,329 #6 February 21, 2011 QuoteQuoteJust remember, they're the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms Explosives and Really Big Fires. BATFERBF. And anything else they want to stick their unwelcome noses into... The courts told them they couldn't stick their noses in APCP rocket fuel. But... But... But... Isn't rocket fuel an explosive? Or at least almost the same as one? Or can be used as one? That's why they think they should be able to. Just like everything else they do."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #7 February 22, 2011 QuoteJust remember, they're the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms Explosives and Really Big Fires. BATFERBF. And anything else they want to stick their unwelcome noses into... OH NO... its a government conspiracy.. SEND IN the RIGHT WING PRIVATE Armies to "fix" the problem Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #8 February 22, 2011 What the fuck happened to you?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #9 February 22, 2011 Quote What the fuck happened to you? The real question is... HOW did they run you into what you have become.... eeesh Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,611 #10 February 22, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteJust remember, they're the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms Explosives and Really Big Fires. BATFERBF. And anything else they want to stick their unwelcome noses into... The courts told them they couldn't stick their noses in APCP rocket fuel. But... But... But... Isn't rocket fuel an explosive? Or at least almost the same as one? Or can be used as one? That's why they think they should be able to. Just like everything else they do. Lots of things can be made to explode that aren't actually explosives. Grain silos, gasoline tanks and steam boilers come to mind. ATFE isn't yet trying to regulate your Wheaties or your car's gas tank. APCP has been ruled NOT an explosive by the courts based on ATFE's own definition of explosive. ATFE was hoist with its own petard (a remarkably apt metaphor).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #11 February 22, 2011 Quote ATFE was hoist with its own petard (a remarkably apt metaphor). Indeed.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #12 February 22, 2011 Quote Lots of things can be made to explode that aren't actually explosives. Asshole. You made me think of my ex. She could explode at the drop of a hat. Fortunately for me, I learned to recognize the tick...tick, tick...tick...and was able to escape the house before the bomb went off. My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,329 #13 February 22, 2011 QuoteLots of things can be made to explode that aren't actually explosives. Grain silos, gasoline tanks and steam boilers come to mind. ATFE isn't yet trying to regulate your Wheaties or your car's gas tank. APCP has been ruled NOT an explosive by the courts based on ATFE's own definition of explosive. ATFE was hoist with its own petard (a remarkably apt metaphor). How well are they following the court finding? (serious question) I have heard that in a couple of gun issues, the ATFE was told by the court that they didn't have the authority, or were misinterperting the laws or somthing similar (I don't remember details) and the ATFE basically ignored the courts and did what they wanted to do."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #14 February 23, 2011 We had someone from ATF questioning whether or not we had pyrotechnics licenses for our black powder shoot last weekend. /facepalm Guess I did a good job of educating him, though, as our conversation ended with "Cool! Can we shoot the cannons?" yup. here's the waiver. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #15 February 23, 2011 Facepalm indeed. They started out as a tax agency. There really is no reason for the BATFERBF to exist. Let the FBI handle the law enforcement side, and let the treasury handle the tax side. Or the Secret Service. They are the inspiration for the phrase "mission creep." If they could they would stick their fingers into everything. Congress has had to rein them in over and over again. I'm just glad some congresscritters still have the steel to keep ATF on a short leash. Quote [URL "http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/ok02_boren/2011_02_19_atf_funding_amendment.html"]BOREN-REHBERG AMENDMENT BLOCKS ATF FROM UNAUTHORIZED TRACKING OF RIFLE PURCHASES[/url] WASHINGTON, D.C. – On Friday evening, U.S. Congressmen Dan Boren of Oklahoma and Denny Rehberg of Montana successfully amended H.R. 1, the Fiscal Year Continuing Appropriations Act for FY2011, to prohibit the use of federal funds for a new and unauthorized regulation currently being proposed by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF). The Boren-Rehberg amendment prevents the ATF from circumventing the will of Congress by centralizing records of thousands of Americans’ rifle purchases without any legal authority. snipwitty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #16 February 23, 2011 QuoteFacepalm indeed. They started out as a tax agency. There really is no reason for the BATFERBF to exist. Let the FBI handle the law enforcement side, and let the treasury handle the tax side. Or the Secret Service. They are the inspiration for the phrase "mission creep." If they could they would stick their fingers into everything. Congress has had to rein them in over and over again. I'm just glad some congresscritters still have the steel to keep ATF on a short leash. Quote [URL "http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/ok02_boren/2011_02_19_atf_funding_amendment.html"]BOREN-REHBERG AMENDMENT BLOCKS ATF FROM UNAUTHORIZED TRACKING OF RIFLE PURCHASES[/url] WASHINGTON, D.C. – On Friday evening, U.S. Congressmen Dan Boren of Oklahoma and Denny Rehberg of Montana successfully amended H.R. 1, the Fiscal Year Continuing Appropriations Act for FY2011, to prohibit the use of federal funds for a new and unauthorized regulation currently being proposed by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF). The Boren-Rehberg amendment prevents the ATF from circumventing the will of Congress by centralizing records of thousands of Americans’ rifle purchases without any legal authority. snip Hell yeah.. lets get rid of them and privatize the whole thing.. we need another private army of mercenaries doing military work inside our own country ... since the military is prohibited from doing that... so far. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #17 February 23, 2011 QuoteHell yeah.. lets get rid of them and privatize the whole thing.. we need another private army of mercenaries doing military work inside our own country ... since the military is prohibited from doing that... so far. So I bring up that a particular government agency constantly overreaches its bounds, that there is another agency that can handle its mission, and you dredge up nonsense about private armies. What's next, are you going to start talking about nanothermite? I'd think with all your blithering about jack booted thugs, you'd support reinin in one of the biggest offenders. Or do they not bother you because it's not one of your favorite rights?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #18 February 23, 2011 Quote Quote Hell yeah.. lets get rid of them and privatize the whole thing.. we need another private army of mercenaries doing military work inside our own country ... since the military is prohibited from doing that... so far. So I bring up that a particular government agency constantly overreaches its bounds, that there is another agency that can handle its mission, and you dredge up nonsense about private armies. What's next, are you going to start talking about nanothermite? I'd think with all your blithering about jack booted thugs, you'd support reinin in one of the biggest offenders. Or do they not bother you because it's not one of your favorite rights? That is SOOOOOO funny on so many levels... I guess you have the memory of a gnat about my position on guns... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #19 February 23, 2011 QuoteQuoteFacepalm indeed. They started out as a tax agency. There really is no reason for the BATFERBF to exist. Let the FBI handle the law enforcement side, and let the treasury handle the tax side. Or the Secret Service. They are the inspiration for the phrase "mission creep." If they could they would stick their fingers into everything. Congress has had to rein them in over and over again. I'm just glad some congresscritters still have the steel to keep ATF on a short leash. Quote [URL "http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/ok02_boren/2011_02_19_atf_funding_amendment.html"]BOREN-REHBERG AMENDMENT BLOCKS ATF FROM UNAUTHORIZED TRACKING OF RIFLE PURCHASES[/url] WASHINGTON, D.C. – On Friday evening, U.S. Congressmen Dan Boren of Oklahoma and Denny Rehberg of Montana successfully amended H.R. 1, the Fiscal Year Continuing Appropriations Act for FY2011, to prohibit the use of federal funds for a new and unauthorized regulation currently being proposed by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF). The Boren-Rehberg amendment prevents the ATF from circumventing the will of Congress by centralizing records of thousands of Americans’ rifle purchases without any legal authority. snip Hell yeah.. lets get rid of them and privatize the whole thing.. we need another private army of mercenaries doing military work inside our own country ... since the military is prohibited from doing that... so far. How about we get rid of them and: 1. Let states regulate alcohol and tobacco, as the federal government doesn't have the constitutional authority to do so. 2. Let the police and federal law enforcement, as appropriate, enforce constitutional firearms and explosives laws. BATFE is a combination of unconstitutional and redundant. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #20 February 23, 2011 Nightingale for President!! Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969912 0 #21 February 23, 2011 Quote How about we get rid of them and: 1. Let states regulate alcohol and tobacco, as the federal government doesn't have the constitutional authority to do so. 2. Let the police and federal law enforcement, as appropriate, enforce constitutional firearms and explosives laws. BATFE is a combination of unconstitutional and redundant. I smile upon your post "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #22 February 23, 2011 QuoteHow about we get rid of them and: 1. Let states regulate alcohol and tobacco, as the federal government doesn't have the constitutional authority to do so. 2. Let the police and federal law enforcement, as appropriate, enforce constitutional firearms and explosives laws. BATFE is a combination of unconstitutional and redundant. One small problem...too logical. Oh, wait...other small problems.. 1. BATF is not about to relinquish the "power" they have accumulated. 2. The goobermint is not about to relinquish the size it has gained. 3. BATF does a uniquely wonderful job of....of....well, I'm sure they'll think of something.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites