popsjumper 2 #101 February 15, 2011 QuoteWhat hasn't been addressed is his challenge to show any similar events under the umbrella of Christianity. QuoteBecause the challenge is flawed. The discussed event is culture driven not religon driven. Now, since this is a cultural issue, there is no mention of religon. Yes, cultural. His reference makes no mention of religious affiliation. However, the question he posed is pretty clear that he's asking about Christianity-related issues. QuoteOdds are pretty high a fair number of those 800 husbands is of a christian faith. Hard to argue against that, yes. I would tend to agree even though it's not documented as such. QuoteI wonder why markharju never posts about honour killings in Brazil? Well, one could hardly expect anyone to mention every country in the world, eh? QuoteWould that be because you are also more concerned about addressing the poster as opposed to the topic? A little pot calling the kettle black?) Not "more so" but yes, in that particular post, you are correct. I was addressing the poster. I offer as an excuse...sometimes it's necessary...as you have already noted. Asking someone to get away from the personal and address the issue is OK in my book, Continually focusing on the personal and not addressing the issue is not constructive in my book. QuoteI didn't see any reference to Muslims. QuoteYou may want to read the title of the post. We were talking about the reference, not the title of the post. QuoteWould it have made a difference to you had he been talking about, say, a Jewish event? QuoteHonour killings or mutilations are not a muslim event. They are cultural, not religous. Yes, there has been no dispute from me on that. We agree. Please note that my question that you quoted was in reply to a statement that included a nod to religion. QuoteHowever, it is my clear impression tha the OP has no interest in honour killings or mutilations, it is just a vehicle. Yes, you may be entirely correct on that but, alas, we don't KNOW for sure. He has not stated it as yet. QuoteWhat I'm trying to figure out is why be indignant at all. You seem to be very upset that the OP talks about Muslims. People have opinions. Even you. QuoteIn my opinion he is a bigot and a racist and his opinions carry absolutely no weight with me. I actually would prefer he posts more, it shows his true character. I actually would prefer that he post more often because it generates more discussion. Unfortunately, quite often, the discussion gets sidetracked with off-the-wall issues. He didn't help things when he referenced a mutilation that made no mention of religious affiliation and then texted about honor killings.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #102 February 15, 2011 So....getting back to the "topic"... Pick one: -Muslims -Mutilations -Honor killings -Bigotry and racism -Name calling -other.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #103 February 15, 2011 QuoteAnyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT) "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB) A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB) If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT) A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB) To name but a few... What's going to be your excuse this time now that your previous post failed in it's attempt? People always quote the Old Testament when bashing Christianity. One has little to do with the other, but most folks don't get it. Whereas the Prophet (pbuh) demands in his own words that brutality be visited upon those who do not convert or become Dhimmi. I repeat: please show me where in Christianity that human mutilation (cutting off hands/feet, stonings, multilation as shown in the original topic to this thread) are taking place anywhere in the world. Mohammed killed lots of people. Many died by his own hand and at his command. It says so right there in the unholy koran. Nothing in the record shows that Yeshua bar Yosef ever so much as raised a hand to anyone. mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #104 February 15, 2011 So the Old testament God is different from the New testament God - wow .... Or .. Christians should ignore the Old (not quite so PC) bits of the Bible .... The Forward and only believe the nicer new bits (??) If it's such a load of old cobblers - why is it even there? (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,121 #105 February 15, 2011 "I say to you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. As for my enemies who do not want me to reign over them, bring them here and kill them in my presence" (Luke 19:26-27). "Do not think that I have come to send peace on Earth. I did not come to send peace, but a sword. I am sent to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law" (Matthew 10:34-35). Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #106 February 15, 2011 Quote People always quote the Old Testament when bashing Christianity. . Yes, including sermons in Christian churches, Bible readings in Christian churches, singing of psalms in Christian churches, displays of the 10 Commandments sponsored by Christian churches, biblical justification of capital punishment by Christians (there's a lot of that in the SC archives even). If priests and other Christian clergy can quote the OT, why shouldn't the rest of us?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
liftedtitan 0 #107 February 15, 2011 Quote People always quote the Old Testament when bashing Christianity. One has little to do with the other, but most folks don't get it. Are you really that stupid? For one, to adopt one and not the other is a complete joke and a mockery of christianity. Both "books" are said to be viewed as sacred scripture, you should ask "god" for his forgiveness for your blasphemy. You know that the new testament you so blindly follow is a translation right? As in, you are trusting that it was translated with no slight in mind, no spin one way or the other and nothing lost. Let me break it down for you in real life terms. The bible is a bunch of horseshit, written to control weak minded idiots by use of fear and to make a lot of money in the process. When you die, you rot in the ground chief, nothing more nothing less. There is nobody sitting on a cloud in a white robe. There is no hell, no devil. People choose religion for a variety of reasons, the biggest and I'll quote some of my idiot christian friends, "If you're right (meaning me) then big deal, If I'm right (christian) then it IS a big deal. Nice little security policy, but meanwhile you tote around shoving this stupid piece of literature down everyone’s throat like you are some supreme being. Honestly, the way you judge people and other religions is the biggest hypocrisy. If you are a christian, then let "god" be the judge. You should just keep your mouth shut, keep tithing that money and let all of us "sinners" live our lives in peace.Moriuntur omnes, sed non omnes vixerunt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #108 February 15, 2011 Quote Quote I would rather be this than a petty person who calls others names to try and stifle or censure debate You have not read the link in the OP, you have not made one post on the topic and all your posts in this tread have been about other posters. I commented on the first two reply's Those who's tune you joined Funny stuff huh"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #109 February 15, 2011 Quote"I say to you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. As for my enemies who do not want me to reign over them, bring them here and kill them in my presence" (Luke 19:26-27). "Do not think that I have come to send peace on Earth. I did not come to send peace, but a sword. I am sent to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law" (Matthew 10:34-35). Wendy P. QuoteCoreece, you know your quotes, but sometimes placing them in a context, either a Biblical one (i.e. why that single sentence exists), or a your-life one (i.e. why that single sentence is important to you right now) will help. Very little in this life exists without a context, and quoting single sentences from even the Bible tends to bring out the people who then quote the nasty sentences, also without context. Wendy P Since you are now a biblical scholar, would you like to present us with a contextual exposition to enlighten the rest of us, or shall I lump you in with the rest of the ignorant bigots in this thread?Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #110 February 15, 2011 Quote"I say to you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. As for my enemies who do not want me to reign over them, bring them here and kill them in my presence" (Luke 19:26-27). "Do not think that I have come to send peace on Earth. I did not come to send peace, but a sword. I am sent to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law" (Matthew 10:34-35). Wendy P. Nice try - context is everything: The Parable of the Ten Minas 11 While they were listening to this, he went on to tell them a parable, because he was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once. 12 He said: “A man of noble birth went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return. 13 So he called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas.[a] ‘Put this money to work,’ he said, ‘until I come back.’ 14 “But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, ‘We don’t want this man to be our king.’ 15 “He was made king, however, and returned home. Then he sent for the servants to whom he had given the money, in order to find out what they had gained with it. 16 “The first one came and said, ‘Sir, your mina has earned ten more.’ 17 “‘Well done, my good servant!’ his master replied. ‘Because you have been trustworthy in a very small matter, take charge of ten cities.’ 18 “The second came and said, ‘Sir, your mina has earned five more.’ 19 “His master answered, ‘You take charge of five cities.’ 20 “Then another servant came and said, ‘Sir, here is your mina; I have kept it laid away in a piece of cloth. 21 I was afraid of you, because you are a hard man. You take out what you did not put in and reap what you did not sow.’ 22 “His master replied, ‘I will judge you by your own words, you wicked servant! You knew, did you, that I am a hard man, taking out what I did not put in, and reaping what I did not sow? 23 Why then didn’t you put my money on deposit, so that when I came back, I could have collected it with interest?’ 24 “Then he said to those standing by, ‘Take his mina away from him and give it to the one who has ten minas.’ 25 “‘Sir,’ they said, ‘he already has ten!’ 26 “He replied, ‘I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what they have will be taken away. 27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.’” Jesus wasn't ordering anyone to kill in his name. He was talking about a greedy king in a parable. In the Matthew quote, the "sword" is symbolic because it represents the schism between the adherents of the current faith and what would come afterwards."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #111 February 15, 2011 QuoteQuote People always quote the Old Testament when bashing Christianity. One has little to do with the other, but most folks don't get it. Are you really that stupid? For one, to adopt one and not the other is a complete joke and a mockery of christianity. Both "books" are said to be viewed as sacred scripture, you should ask "god" for his forgiveness for your blasphemy. You know that the new testament you so blindly follow is a translation right? As in, you are trusting that it was translated with no slight in mind, no spin one way or the other and nothing lost. Let me break it down for you in real life terms. QuoteThe bible is a bunch of horseshit, written to control weak minded idiots by use of fear and to make a lot of money in the process. I do not really disagree with this observation. I just think that some systems are far worse than others. Take the unholy koran, for example. Quote When you die, you rot in the ground chief, nothing more nothing less. There is nobody sitting on a cloud in a white robe. There is no hell, no devil. For general purposes, we can neither prove nor disprove any of this. Your absolutist position on this is as deeply flawed as the blindest of adherents. The term "Born-Again Atheist" comes to mind, but since I do not know you or your value system(s), I may be misinformed. People choose religion for a variety of reasons, the biggest and I'll quote some of my idiot christian friends, "If you're right (meaning me) then big deal, If I'm right (christian) then it IS a big deal. Nice little security policy, Quotebut meanwhile you tote around shoving this stupid piece of literature down everyone’s throat like you are some supreme being. Honestly, the way you judge people and other religions is the biggest hypocrisy. You are making crass assumptions. QuoteIf you are a christian, then let "god" be the judge. You should just keep your mouth shut, keep tithing that money and let all of us "sinners" live our lives in peace. I haven't judged anyone or anything, but merely pointed out how utterly f*****-up a particular value system is. However, as I mentioned, some are far worse than others. I challenge you, personally, to show me anything, anywhere in the world that comes close. Let's open it up to all the wacky belief systems in the world. Is there anything as destructive (and self-destructive) in existence today? I doubt it. BTW - with respect, this is opinion, not judgement. "The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,121 #112 February 15, 2011 We're taking quotes out of context in the Quran to say it justifies violence (as do some Muslims). So I'm providing quotes from Christianity that can be taken to incite violence. After all, Christians used to burn witches and heretics. No, we don't any more, but we sure used to. And we supposedly used the Bible as a guide for it. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,121 #113 February 15, 2011 Quotecontext is everythingROFLOLPIMP Interesting how it's only relevant when we know the context. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #114 February 15, 2011 QuoteQuotecontext is everythingROFLOLPIMP Interesting how it's only relevant when we know the context. Wendy P. Especially when discussing a young woman having her nose and ears cut off by religious wackos. mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #115 February 15, 2011 QuoteQuoteWe're taking quotes out of context in the Quran to say it justifies violence (as do some Muslims) That's the usual excuse. However, there is no need to claim "out of context" with respect to the unholy koran - it's all there in its graphic, bloody glory. It goes on and on for chapter after chapter, with the Prophet (pbuh) directly advocating (and committing) murder. QuoteSo I'm providing quotes from Christianity that can be taken to incite violence. The defense rests. Quotewe don't any more, but we sure used to. And we supposedly used the Bible as a guide for it You make it sound as though Westerners were doing this just last week, whereas it stopped centuries ago. Over here, however, you can read in the newspapers of people CURRENTLY, TODAY being charged and convicted of "witchcraft" (yes, it was in the English-language edition too. I couldn't believe my eyes). Wendy P. mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
liftedtitan 0 #116 February 15, 2011 Quote If priests and other Christian clergy can quote the OT, why shouldn't the rest of us? Because like MOST christians (99%), if the argument does not favor their opinion, then it is not valid. They find ways to skirt around valid points by twisting things around. I gave up a long time ago debating christian nutbags. Its a complete waste of time, they are shut off to anything you have to say, they are ignorant in so many ways its honeslty laughable. Take the OP here, this idiot doesn't know the first thing about Islam, yet he hates it. How can this be? Because what you read about or hear about on the news, thats what you base your opinion on? There are extremests in every relegion, get over it.Moriuntur omnes, sed non omnes vixerunt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #117 February 15, 2011 Fact is, Mark, there's a lot of sacred Christian literature that incites and justifies killing. You can argue context all you want, but it still invalidates your previous statement.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #118 February 15, 2011 Quote We're taking quotes out of context in the Quran to say it justifies violence (as do some Muslims). So I'm providing quotes from Christianity that can be taken to incite violence. Thanks for being part of the solution...it's much appreciated.Does everyone get to call you (and all the others who show disdain for religion) a bigot, just as they do to Mark?Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #119 February 15, 2011 QuoteFact is, Mark, there's a lot of sacred Christian literature that incites and justifies killing. You can argue context all you want, but it still invalidates your previous statement. Please provide some, then. And at the expense of repeating myself yet again, please show me where anything like this mutilation is taking place in the West. mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #120 February 15, 2011 QuoteQuoteFact is, Mark, there's a lot of sacred Christian literature that incites and justifies killing. You can argue context all you want, but it still invalidates your previous statement. Please provide some, then. And at the expense of repeating myself yet again, please show me where anything like this mutilation is taking place in the West. mh . Since there are already examples IN THIS VERY THREAD, why not just go back and read them? (PS - every day thousands of baby boys are mutilated in the west. There's even a Biblical exhortation to do it, Genesis 17:10).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,121 #121 February 15, 2011 The problem, to me, is that there are a significant number of people who are terrorists right now. A lot of them are Muslims, specifically fundamentalist Muslims. Remember that correlation does not mean causality. To help resolve this problem, somehow we (and that's a big "we") need to figure out why terrorism has all of a sudden become acceptable. It's become more and more acceptable over the years. People who are invested in the world they live in don't resort to terrorism -- they have too much to lose. I really, really hope that the current stuff going on in Egypt acts as a reminder of the real power of people. And remember, too, that one person's war is the opponent's terrorism sometimes. Saying that there is something bad about Christianity is not bigoted. Neither is saying there is something bad about Islam. Continuously pointing out only the negative, or only the positive, in either one, is closed-minded, and very possibly bigoted. From Wiktionary for bigot: Quote1.one who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices 2.one who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #122 February 15, 2011 Quote Saying that there is something bad about Christianity is not bigoted. Neither is saying there is something bad about Islam. Continuously pointing out only the negative, or only the positive, in either one, is closed-minded, and very possibly bigoted. From Wiktionary for bigot: Quote 1.one who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices 2.one who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ. Wendy P. Sounds like most people here...So I guess it's just subjective and depends on who, how much, and how often you disagree with them.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #123 February 15, 2011 ...So I guess it's just subjective and depends on who, how much, and how often you disagree with them. +1 for one political side anyway"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #124 February 15, 2011 Quote After all, Christians used to burn witches and heretics. No, we don't any more, but we sure used to. And we supposedly used the Bible as a guide for it. Wendy P. People didn't stop burning witches because they became more enlightened about burning them being morally wrong. People stopped burning witches because they no longer ascribed power to them. If we still ascribed the same power to them we would still be burning them."What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
futuredivot 0 #125 February 15, 2011 Did you register for Quade's "Screwed up Analogy" course on-line or do you attend the classes?You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
