Border Patrol discussion

[rhaig 0]

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Something tells me this driver is going to clean house in federal court and the taxpayers will be paying him and his lawyers.

well when this guy does clean up, please let us know how it goes for you... I mean him.

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Rob

[VAPA 0]

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Something tells me this driver is going to clean house in federal court and the taxpayers will be paying him and his lawyers.

well when this guy does clean up, please let us know how it goes for you... I mean him.

I'll do my best to let you know how it goes for him.

[masterrig 1]

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Yeah, we were only given tidbits. Like the entire thirty plus minutes recorded on two different cameras. Hard to make out anything with that limited information. If only we had word of mouth, or maybe a hastily written account instead of digital audio and video to re-enaact what happened. But we just have those snippets of complete time stamped video footage.

But what we can tell from those tidbits is the driver was "baiting" the poor agents, basically forcing them against their will to break the law and violate the Constitution. Those poor agents. Much like a convenience store owner who has his store burglarized several times in the past, is "baiting" the thugs when he then installs a surveillance system. The thugs will tell you that the surveillance videos are just tidbits and we don't have the full story. They will say they were baited into breaking the law.

I have a feeling that know it all store owner will slip up though and get his arrogant jerk fanny in a crack.

I can respect the thugs fo keeping their cool as they broke the law and robbed the store.

What some don't realize, is that it doesn't matter if your actions are legal or illegal according to the law, but rather how you conduct yourself and if you're polite. Take for instance Ted Bundy. From the little I know about him, he was described as a very "polite" and "courteous" man. I've watched the videos over and over and wasn't some jerk like some of his murder victims more than likely were. That's why as a God fearing law-and-order Texan conservative, I spend my time ranting about the arrogant jerk sorority girls he knifed up and give him a pass. He was polite and courteous and kept his cool.

Sarcasm over. I realize others have these values/views, but I don't.

Something tells me this driver is going to clean house in federal court and the taxpayers will be paying him and his lawyers. And something tells me some self described conservatives don't care, as they don't care about limiting the actions of the government (even when said government actors are specifically limited by the law). Something also tells me I'll be posting in the forum about how the U.S. federal courts found that the driver's Fourth Amendment rights were violated in a guilty verdict against the agents.

But something also tells me that won't be convincing enough to some, who think cowardice/cooperation with unlawful government is more important than an oath before God, and who think a "wise ass" jerk, "know it all" citizen deserves their anger (despite acting legally), while agents who repeatedly lied and broke the law deserve a pass.

WHAT?

You sound like someone who has had 'incidences' with law enforcement! You come across as someone who wants me and everyone else to say we are wrong and you are right. I for one am not doing it!
I can't believe I'm responding to you.


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

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Something tells me this driver is going to clean house in federal court and the taxpayers will be paying him and his lawyers.

well when this guy does clean up, please let us know how it goes for you... I mean him.

I think, any jury with any sense at all, could see through this guy's story and he wouldn't get too far.
I think too, the Agents showed a lot of restraint while this guy was showing his ass above his shirt collar. Mighta been different if, the Agents smashed-out the side glass, dragged his stinkin' ass out of the car and tazed him! I think, that's what the guy was hoping for.


Chuck

[VAPA 0]

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Something tells me this driver is going to clean house in federal court and the taxpayers will be paying him and his lawyers.

well when this guy does clean up, please let us know how it goes for you... I mean him.

I think, any jury with any sense at all, could see through this guy's story and he wouldn't get too far.
I think too, the Agents showed a lot of restraint while this guy was showing his ass above his shirt collar. Mighta been different if, the Agents smashed-out the side glass, dragged his stinkin' ass out of the car and tazed him! I think, that's what the guy was hoping for.


Chuck

Really, how would that have been different? If the driver broke the law as you imply, then why would it be different? If he broke the law, and refused to get out of the vehicle, then they'd have cause legally to drag him out. But they didn't. I wonder why? So how would that have been different?

Oh you mean it's different because they broke the law but didn't break his head? If they had broken the law, and broken his head then it would be a problem. Got ya. No big deal about the LAW, unless they commit violence.

But you said cooperation goes a long way, and you don't care about whether a citizen has the right to not cooperate with unlawful government agents who seek to violate the average American citizen. So why would that matter? If the agents would have said, "Choke yourself and then shoot yourself in the head," you'd be the first grand citizen Cowboy to say, "Yeah, shoot yourself and cooperate!"

You're not married are you Chuck? I'm thinking no, because a woman would be able to smell the un-American pussy on you, and she'd fear for her safety with such a "cooperative" husband as you.

Hugs!

[VAPA 0]

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You sound like someone who has had 'incidences' with law enforcement! You come across as someone who wants me and everyone else to say we are wrong and you are right. I for one am not doing it!
I can't believe I'm responding to you.


Chuck

Oh my! Oh golly gee my! Want to get you to read the law set before you and acknowledge it, or shut your ignorant un-American pie hole? Say it isn't so!

[rhaig 0]

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Something tells me this driver is going to clean house in federal court and the taxpayers will be paying him and his lawyers.

well when this guy does clean up, please let us know how it goes for you... I mean him.

I think, any jury with any sense at all, could see through this guy's story and he wouldn't get too far.
I think too, the Agents showed a lot of restraint while this guy was showing his ass above his shirt collar. Mighta been different if, the Agents smashed-out the side glass, dragged his stinkin' ass out of the car and tazed him! I think, that's what the guy was hoping for.


Chuck

Really, how would that have been different? You claim the guy broke the law and give a pass to the lying agents who broke the law (just in view of the Supreme Court and the law of the land, not saying it was the law according to the Village Idiot with a cowboy hat).

and you were doing so well without an overt personal attack.

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Rob

[rhaig 0]

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You sound like someone who has had 'incidences' with law enforcement! You come across as someone who wants me and everyone else to say we are wrong and you are right. I for one am not doing it!
I can't believe I'm responding to you.


Chuck

Oh my! Oh golly gee my! Want to get you to read the law set before you and acknowledge it, or shut your ignorant un-American pie hole? Say it isn't so!

hey look everyone.... here comes the ban-hammer!!

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Rob

[VAPA 0]

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You sound like someone who has had 'incidences' with law enforcement! You come across as someone who wants me and everyone else to say we are wrong and you are right. I for one am not doing it!
I can't believe I'm responding to you.


Chuck

Oh my! Oh golly gee my! Want to get you to read the law set before you and acknowledge it, or shut your ignorant un-American pie hole? Say it isn't so!

hey look everyone.... here comes the ban-hammer!!

Oh yes, the ban hammer! That's my best hope of sounding like I'm not a complete coward who touches himself over the thought of the government unlawfully using its power against citizens!

I'm a real man, please contact me if you want a real man who will abandon you in a heart beat because I'm a total coward!

[VAPA 0]

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Something tells me this driver is going to clean house in federal court and the taxpayers will be paying him and his lawyers.

well when this guy does clean up, please let us know how it goes for you... I mean him.

I think, any jury with any sense at all, could see through this guy's story and he wouldn't get too far.
I think too, the Agents showed a lot of restraint while this guy was showing his ass above his shirt collar. Mighta been different if, the Agents smashed-out the side glass, dragged his stinkin' ass out of the car and tazed him! I think, that's what the guy was hoping for.


Chuck

Really, how would that have been different? You claim the guy broke the law and give a pass to the lying agents who broke the law (just in view of the Supreme Court and the law of the land, not saying it was the law according to the Village Idiot with a cowboy hat).

and you were doing so well without an overt personal attack.

Honestly with morons like you and your girlfriend Chuck, I don't care. People like you deserve to be personally attacked because you've proven time and again you don't respond to intelligent conversation.

[nigel99 143]

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I wonder why, the Agent didn't ask the guy about his citizenship? I think the Agent may have gotten a bit 'rattled' by the driver's actions. Makes me wonder how often the agent has worked a check-point. Still, the driver's actions were probably throwing-up 'red flags' all over the place. I do believe, you get a lot farther by cooperating and not being a jerk by showing-off how informed you are. Bottom line... the driver, being in the military, should've known better and not been such an arrogant jerk. The Border Patrol Agents were courteous, though.


Chuck

From the clip it "appears" that the conversation went down a rabbit trail. The conversation started with winding down the window NOT with is this your car.

When people are not being dicks quite often the pertinent question is not the first question asked. I flew into the US yesterday and the lady at Immigration asked about my flight, commented on the weather and after a couple of general conversational type questions got to the "official" questions.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[VAPA 0]

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I wonder why, the Agent didn't ask the guy about his citizenship? I think the Agent may have gotten a bit 'rattled' by the driver's actions. Makes me wonder how often the agent has worked a check-point. Still, the driver's actions were probably throwing-up 'red flags' all over the place. I do believe, you get a lot farther by cooperating and not being a jerk by showing-off how informed you are. Bottom line... the driver, being in the military, should've known better and not been such an arrogant jerk. The Border Patrol Agents were courteous, though.


Chuck

From the clip it "appears" that the conversation went down a rabbit trail. The conversation started with winding down the window NOT with is this your car.

When people are not being dicks quite often the pertinent question is not the first question asked. I flew into the US yesterday and the lady at Immigration asked about my flight, commented on the weather and after a couple of general conversational type questions got to the "official" questions.

Nigel, why don't you take your red coat ass to school and learn how not to be a complete retard. The video shows clearly the VERY FIRST question asked by the agent was "Is this your vehicle."

Seriously, the stupidity among you and your coward coalition is stunning. http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_850009&v=4BId1f8WG2s&feature=iv

Did you fly into the U.S. the other day? How wonderful. Reminds me of your Cameron recently discussing how they will not be as tolerant to outsiders who have radical ideas. I hope we in the U.S. enact stricter at-the-border laws to prevent non-Americans like you with un-American views to travel freely in our country and spread your un-American bullshit. Of course you'll still be able to post online, and get adherents like Chuck and Rhaim to fall all over you. Those guys are easy though, they don't care about the Constitution of the U.S. You could probably have them kissing your ring in no time.

I think perhaps I erred with this thread. I thought this was a forum frequented by Americans who believed in law and order and the Constitution. It appears I strayed onto a board that still believes in the Divine Right of Kings.

You're a prime example of why Americans kicked the British ass back when real Americans like George Washington frequented skydiving forums on the internet. I see you've done well in ending that trend.

[rhaig 0]

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Honestly with morons like you and your girlfriend Chuck, I don't care. People like you deserve to be personally attacked because you've proven time and again you don't respond to intelligent conversation.

oh see? you seemed like such a rules-oriented person. yet you failed to understand the rules of this forum. Either that, or you're just making a scene. Do you have cameras posted for this one too?

oh wait, let me guess.... we're violating your first amendment rights now by telling you what you can and can't say here?

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Rob

[VAPA 0]

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Honestly with morons like you and your girlfriend Chuck, I don't care. People like you deserve to be personally attacked because you've proven time and again you don't respond to intelligent conversation.

oh see? you seemed like such a rules-oriented person. yet you failed to understand the rules of this forum. Either that, or you're just making a scene. Do you have cameras posted for this one too?

oh wait, let me guess.... we're violating your first amendment rights now by telling you what you can and can't say here?

Oh I humbly submit to the rules of this forum. Ban me because I told a couple of fuck sticks what they were? No problem. This isn't government run, so the First Amendment doesn't apply.

But the absolute idiocracy of you and Chuck, and your complete refusal to care about the law of the U.S. and your willingness to lie to support the illegal use of government force against citizens, makes me not give a shit.

If I'm banned, so be it. I'm shocked that this forum doesn't contain enough Americans to actually pipe in and pronounce fact as fact to defend against you dumb un-American pricks.

[masterrig 1]

Would you like to meet somewhere and say all that to my face?


Chuck

[VAPA 0]

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Would you like to meet somewhere and say all that to my face?


Chuck

You are goddamn right I would. Any time, any place. We'll just make sure it's recorded to be posted on the internet. If you are serious, so am I. I will pay for the ticket to visit you.

If you are serious, we'll set up the details so that we have a "fair" meeting, you and me. So we can discuss this face to face.

[VAPA 0]

Post your offer. I'll run it by my lawyers to ensure we can have a meeting that is unfettered by any stupidity.

Post your name and email address and I'll set up the rest.

[VAPA 0]

I may have underestimated you Chuck. I'm glad to see you hold to the core American value of put up or shut up. I hope you believe in a fair...meeting.

You and me, face to face, no games and an video recording of the meeting. I'm all about it.

[VAPA 0]

I'm thinking we can record us having a debate. Fact against fact.

Of course, if at any time you want to take a break, we can always break for a round of sports. Do you like sports? How about mixed martial arts? Just as a sporting thing. First one knocked out or who submits, wins. I don't mean to imply we'd be fighting, just engaging in some sport.

I'm looking forward to the meeting.

[VAPA 0]

Come on Chuck. Don't have second thoughts. That was an American impulse you had there. Go with it. I'll pay to travel to you. We'll have conversation. And then we can compete in a sporting event if we decide.

Please post the details.

[lilryno 0]

Greetings forum members. I'm just the messenger here. I was asked by a buddy of mine (VAPA) to respond here. After a long debate on this thread, he says he was challenged by Chuck to a meeting in person to discuss the issue further. He told me that he posted that he was willing to meet to engage in a healthy exchange of ideas, and also agreed to a sporting physical match upon Chuck's request (as a way to break up a long debate and invigorate the discussion).

I think he's silly, but he also said that he would agree to pay for travel to meet Chuck to have this exchange of ideas and sporting contest (he mentioned a mixed martial arts contest as an example, but told me wrestling or boxing or any other sport, or none at all, would also be fine as Chuck is interested).

Apparently, however, after he posted this response to Chuck with these facts in his response to Chuck, for some strange reason he was then banned and all his responses to Chuck were deleted for some reason, making it seem like Chuck's offer went unanswered. I don't know all the details, but he asked me to convey for him:

1. The offer is still on - just name the time and place, and provide your name and email address so that he can take measures to ensure that him traveling to you will be safe for him (you can't be too safe with it being the internet and all).

2. He thinks it's sad that Chuck is allowed to challenge him to a healthy American debate face to face, and yet his posts are deleted while Chuck's challenge remains, making it seem like he didn't respond.

3. He said he did a screen capture of all the posts to prove the truth of events and will post it on the internet as is useful in case anybody thinks he is misrepresenting the truth.

I personally don't want to get involved in whatever dispute is being had, but just wanted to pass the message for him that he is more than willing to meet with Chuck at no expense to Chuck at all. My buddy is a big fan of the exchange of ideas and seems very eager to have this conversation with Chuck. I also agree with Chuck and my buddy that it's good for people to talk face to face to sort out their differences and grow.

I hope that I can pass any message along to help Chuck and VAPA have the meeting that Chuck so graciously offered to have. If I can be of any assistance, please let me know.

I look forward to engaging more in this great forum.

"The value of man lies not in the knowledge he possesses, or means to possess, but in the sincere pain which he hath taken to find it out." - G.E. Lessings

[masterrig 1]

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I wonder why, the Agent didn't ask the guy about his citizenship? I think the Agent may have gotten a bit 'rattled' by the driver's actions. Makes me wonder how often the agent has worked a check-point. Still, the driver's actions were probably throwing-up 'red flags' all over the place. I do believe, you get a lot farther by cooperating and not being a jerk by showing-off how informed you are. Bottom line... the driver, being in the military, should've known better and not been such an arrogant jerk. The Border Patrol Agents were courteous, though.


Chuck

From the clip it "appears" that the conversation went down a rabbit trail. The conversation started with winding down the window NOT with is this your car.

When people are not being dicks quite often the pertinent question is not the first question asked. I flew into the US yesterday and the lady at Immigration asked about my flight, commented on the weather and after a couple of general conversational type questions got to the "official" questions.

Sounds like the lady was just trying to set-up a 'friendly' atmosphere yet getting the job done. Probably what the Agents in this incident were trying to do but the guy involved was just being an obnoxious dick.

By the way... how was your trip? Glad to know it was a safe one.


Chuck

[lilryno 0]

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Would you like to meet somewhere and say all that to my face?


Chuck

Chuck, I'm confused. Did you offer to meet VAPA in person to have a face to face discussion only to have his acceptance of your offer (at his own expense) deleted, and then turn around and respond as if nothing had happened?

If not, please post how you would like to be contacted to arrange this meeting.

"The value of man lies not in the knowledge he possesses, or means to possess, but in the sincere pain which he hath taken to find it out." - G.E. Lessings

[lilryno 0]

Please let me know and I will post or link to the screenshots showing that he accepted your offer and agreed to fly out to see you, before he was banned and those posts were all of the sudden deleted.

I'm not sure if there is a copyright concern with screenshots so I don't want to post them without permission!

"The value of man lies not in the knowledge he possesses, or means to possess, but in the sincere pain which he hath taken to find it out." - G.E. Lessings

[lilryno 0]

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Would you like to meet somewhere and say all that to my face?


Chuck

For the record, VAPA accepted Chuck's offer above, and even offered to pay to travel to have the discussion. His posts were then deleted and he was banned. He asked me to post here and reaffirm his acceptance of Chuck's offer. My posts where then deleted, but noticeably Chuck's offer was not, making it seem as though Chuck offered and VAPA refused.

I was then sent a message by BillVon:

"Please do not attempt to continue the threats in SC in the thread with Chuck and VAPA. Any further threats will result in a ban."

This despite the fact that all I did was pass VAPA's message that he accepted Chuck's invite.

It appears DropZone.Com wants to protect Chuck's image as a tough guy who goes unanswered when he invites people he disagrees with to have a face to face conversation.

"The value of man lies not in the knowledge he possesses, or means to possess, but in the sincere pain which he hath taken to find it out." - G.E. Lessings