75-Year Prison Sentence for Taping the Police? The Absurd Laws That Criminalize Audio and Video Recording in America

[dreamdancer 0]

madness...

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With the request for a court reporter denied, Allison made good on his promise to bring his own audio recorder with him to the courthouse. Here's what happened next, as reported by Radley Bilko in the latest issue of Reason magazine:

Just after he walked through the courthouse door the next day, Allison says Crawford County Circuit Court Judge Kimbara Harrell asked him whether he had a tape recorder in his pocket. He said yes. Harrell then asked him if it was turned on. Allison said it was. Harrell then informed the defendant that he was in violation of the Illinois wiretapping law, which makes it a Class 1 felony to record someone without his consent. “You violated my right to privacy,” the judge said.

Allison responded that he had no idea it was illegal to record public officials during the course of their work, that there was no sign or notice barring tape recorders in the courtroom, and that he brought one only because his request for a court reporter had been denied. No matter: After Harrell found him guilty of violating the car ordinance, Allison, who had no prior criminal record, was hit with five counts of wiretapping, each punishable by four to 15 years in prison. Harrell threw him in jail, setting bail at $35,000.

http://www.alternet.org/rights/149706/75-year_prison_sentence_for_taping_the_police_the_absurd_laws_that_criminalize_audio_and_video_recording_in_america/?page=entire

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[timmyfitz 0]

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Allison responded that he had no idea it was illegal to record public officials during the course of their work, that there was no sign or notice barring tape recorders in the courtroom

Ignorance of the law has never been an excuse that will allow anyone to break any law. But some people insist on not taking personal responsibility for their own actions....and here we are.

Madness indeed.







________________________________
"1981 to 1988 is 7 years"-Kallend (oops, it's actually 8 years,Kallend)

The decade of the 80's was from 1980 to 1989. 10 years. If you remove 1980 and 1989 you have 1981 to 1988. 8 years.

[rushmc 18]

In IA tapping any conversation is legal. It is admissible in court of one of those being recorded knows of said recording

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[tkhayes 124]

before you further promote the 'sensational headline' - let's wait to see what, if ANYTHING he actually gets convicted of.

If he GOT 75 years, yes, the headline would be accurate, and the law would be absurd.

None of that has happened yet, nor for the other two mentioned in the article.

[Niki1 1]

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Allison responded that he had no idea it was illegal to record public officials during the course of their work, that there was no sign or notice barring tape recorders in the courtroom

Ignorance of the law has never been an excuse that will allow anyone to break any law. But some people insist on not taking personal responsibility for their own actions....and here we are.

Madness indeed.

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Obscure, vague, or arbitrarily enforced laws are like "double secret probation". The recording laws seem to vary from state to state. Some allow all recording, some only video. When I call customer service at a lot of companies, I hear something like, "This call may be recorded for quality purposes." If this guy had had a sign that said he was recording, or he made the statement after his case started he may have been within the rules.
I'm not a lawyer and don't even play one on TV.


The judge still sounds like a dickhead but there might be more to the story.

Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossilbe before they were done.
Louis D Brandeis

Where are we going and why are we in this basket?

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[Amazon 7]

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before you further promote the 'sensational headline' - let's wait to see what, if ANYTHING he actually gets convicted of.

If he GOT 75 years, yes, the headline would be accurate, and the law would be absurd.

None of that has happened yet, nor for the other two mentioned in the article.

I think it should be mandatory to video record ALL interactions with the police in this country. Maybe that would keep them a little bit honest.

[tkhayes 124]

agreed

[tkhayes 124]

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The judge still sounds like a dickhead but there might be more to the story.

The judge has his/her domain, the courtroom, and they have ultimate rule in the courtroom. I do not really have an issue with that. The handful of times I have been in a courtroom for whatever reason, i have always found the judges to be very up front and clear about what the rules are in their domain.

So when I watch someone violate those rules right in front of the judge, I think the judge has every right to be pissed off and do whatever is necessary to regain control of that domain.

Of course, every power has abuses, and I know they exist out there, but I have yet to see it myself.

[Southern_Man 0]

VA is a one party consent state, so as long as the person with the taper recorder knows they are being recorded then they are all good.

I have not check this in my state but there are states passing laws making a stricter standard for audio or video taping police. Those laws are abysmal and exist simply to prepetuate police abuse.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[davjohns 1]

Alabama also has the rule that any party to a conversation can consent. I don't think you have a right to privacy unless everyone in the conversation asserts it. I could go into court and testify to what was said. Why can't I have a recording so my testimony is substantiated and more accurate?

I'm concerned that the Judge asserted that he was the victim and then set bail. Seems if he saw himself as the victim, it should go through the DA and another Judge. If it was contempt of court, that's still within his realm.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[DiverMike 5]

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The judge has his/her domain, the courtroom, and they have ultimate rule in the courtroom. I do not really have an issue with that.

But he is still a public employee performing his duty in public. I don't think he has any right to privacy while performing a public duty.

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[cguest4 0]

Kevin,
now I know why we don't see any more of your random article posting on ukskydiver, you've decided to give the Americans a taste.

[AdamLanes 1]

Here is a link to the Reason Magazine article: The War on Cameras

[kelpdiver 2]

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before you further promote the 'sensational headline' - let's wait to see what, if ANYTHING he actually gets convicted of.

If he GOT 75 years, yes, the headline would be accurate, and the law would be absurd.

None of that has happened yet, nor for the other two mentioned in the article.

I think it should be mandatory to video record ALL interactions with the police in this country. Maybe that would keep them a little bit honest.

Some articles started floating around a few days ago on this, but it was specific to police on the field, I believe in Illinois.

It's is ridiculous to assert that citizens may not record their interactions with the police, particularly when cops generally are recording the encounter themselves. It is the only protection/defense a citizen can have against cops acting inappropriately in the execution of their job.

The defense of the law is that these recordings are often edited and misrepresented. That's not a valid excuse - hopefully a court will fix this. Sadly, this feels like something that Congress would have to address.

[dreamdancer 0]

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Kevin,
now I know why we don't see any more of your random article posting on ukskydiver, you've decided to give the Americans a taste.

excuse me, nothing random about my threads - each one is precisely researched, chosen and the appropriate 'snippet' presented to the target audience
ukskydiver is a little small and immature for me at the moment
(what do you think of the news of my own dz opening?)

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[captain1976 0]

Because of the vast crimes committed over the years by the State of Illinois and its representatives, many of us consider this Land of Lincoln a criminal organization.

The guy really blew it when asked if his recorder was on, he should have said NO!

I travel through this piece of shit state often and I have hidden cameras in my car. I can turn on and off remotely and any misconduct I see will be on youtube that night.

You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime

[Kennedy 0]

Nope, nothing random about it at all. It's exactly what alternet tells you to think about every little thing, with some extra "hate America" and "hooray for Hamas" thrown in.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[GeorgiaDon 340]

Be that as it may, as someone who works in law enforcement what do you think of the notion that your interactions with the public are "private conversations", and that either deliberately or accidentally recording any police officer, or any officer issuing a ticket or arresting a suspect, should potentially be punishable by life in prison? How is that compatible with America as a free society?

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[airdvr 197]

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before you further promote the 'sensational headline' - let's wait to see what, if ANYTHING he actually gets convicted of.

If he GOT 75 years, yes, the headline would be accurate, and the law would be absurd.

None of that has happened yet, nor for the other two mentioned in the article.

I think it should be mandatory to video record ALL interactions with the police in this country. Maybe that would keep them a little bit honest.

Most law enforcement agencies have dash cams so they can refute the bullshit they're accused of. I'm all in favor on this suggestion.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Kennedy 0]

First, it's with law enforcement, or in a field directly related to and affected by law enforcement. I don't enforce the law right, and I'm not sure whether I will again or not. I haven't hung up the spurs, but they are gathering dust at the moment.

Personally, I think it is asinine to have laws that forbid a person to record his own actions and interactions with others. (third party recording is differen and should require consent of at least one of the recorded)

When dealing with public officers or employees, I don't think there should be any expectation of privacy for the member of the public or the government worker.

How did you come up with life in prison? Wiretapping laws, while felonies, tend to carry less than ten year sentences. Coming to life terms, you have to combine numerous violations of the law, or three strikes type laws.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[lurch 0]

Illinois scares the crap out of me. I passed through once 11 years back.

I have no personal issue with cops. I know a few who are good people, but this particular incident taught me some can be just plain gloatingly, deliberately evil.
I stopped for breakfast at some random pancake diner off I-80. There was a State Police supervisor patrol car in the lot- gunmetal gray Ford. I get inside and as I'm eating I start paying attention to the conversation.

This man of Authority was fondly reminiscing to the truckers about how he missed the good old days of the 80's when you could just shoot drug suspects in the back when they ran from you. He then told them a delightful tale of smashing the shit out of some "potheads" car because they were too scared to get out. This prick was laughing as he described how he smashed the windows, dragged em out and beat em senseless for resisting, deliberately broke up their car searching it, ("well, we hadda do the dash thoroughly, heh heh") and found... nothing. Chuckling, he says "guess they must have smoked it all."

To this day I have never before or since seen or heard of such sheer, giggling malice and unapologetic evil from any human being, ever. To this guy drug laws are just target designators telling him who he is allowed to victimize, and if they're innocent, well, oops, collateral damage, was still fun to fuck em up and break their car apart anyway just to teach em a lesson in obedience. I heard this from the man's own mouth. Casual shooting-the-shit conversation with truckers.

I thought I was gonna puke. I lost my appetite abandoned my breakfast half eaten, paid and left the diner.

And wouldn't you know it this guy pulled out behind me and followed me down I-80 for the next 50 miles. I tried pulling off in gas stations and waiting 10 minutes to get him to either break off the stalking or get it over with and pull me over for something, when I went to get back on the on-ramp he was waiting for me and continued following me until he lost interest and simply disappeared.

I was scared to death. I was innocent of anything but that fact did not matter. I was from out of state, looked like 3 days on the road, driving a beat up 4x4. Prime target.

It took numerous benign encounters with other cops who -could- have hassled me and didn't, plus getting to know a few as skydivers years later to convince me that this may not necessarily represent a common attitude among cops. Strangely, I'd found the cops I encountered in California to be totally cool and laid back, enough so that I was never scared of them or saw them as a threat. At least the ones -I- met, were the good guys and acted like it. Funny, I'd heard so many horror stories about Cali cops, but all I had to do to get along with em was be halfway polite to them.

But so help me I wish I'd had a camera, in Illinois... Criminals don't scare me-I've lived in bad places and I know how to handle "gankstas" and "gang-bangas". But I've never been as scared as I was hearing this guy run his mouth. With good guys like him, who needs bad guys? At least with street crime, its fair and acceptable to defend myself any way I can. If this guy had decided I was his next target, I would have been street meat.

These days the police have an image problem: The message they send is "Anything other than 100% obedience gets a beating and you can argue your rights to the judge." But any message OTHER than that undermines authority and would tend to encourage idiots to think it was ok to get physical with a cop.

I know its got to be a pain in the ass to be a cop and far more so with citizens stridently jamming cameras in their faces. But those cameras are the only means of self defense left to those citizens. I know you're not supposed to think in terms of "defending yourself" from law enforcement, but as the many videos captured by citizens show, SOME means of doing so is necessary. At least the cameras are civilized.

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[captain1976 0]

Sounds like a scary situation Lurch.

Isn't it awful what police have become, especially in Illinois? That propaganda "the policeman is your friend" taught to us as children is just a fairy tale.

They have become nothing more than shameful jack-booted thugs who the general public has grown to fear and hate.

I personally haven't had any problems with cops, but like most of us I know those whose lives have been miserably disrupted by overzealous cops.

We regularly see honest citizens stopped for routine traffic violations. With several squad cars and all their personal belonging scattered around the car, they seem to love dehumanizing people with their misguided authority.

I'm tired of hearing that there are good cops out there. They are supposed to be. Watch how all these so-called good cops will stand by their fellow officer when one gets in trouble.
This stand-by-me practice puts them in the same category; vermin not fit to wipe my feet on.

There is a dis-proportionate amount of crimes committed by law enforcement officers in this Country.
Just look at the atrocities committed by this garbage on youtube, or just read the daily papers.

No wonder people like myself have no use or stomach for them anymore.

There is a little light out there though, ones who are real cops and not just tag-along shit with IQ's bordering that of my cat.
"LEAP" http://www.leap.cc/cms/index.php

You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime

[lurch 0]

I've been aware of the LEAP guys for awhile now. The other group I see as very healthy among that crowd are the Oath Keepers. As I understand it they are military and police who vow specifically to adhere to the constitution and to refuse unlawful orders.

I kinda wonder though, why the vicious level of hate in your posts? You seem to either have a grudge or take it real personal. "vermin" is painting them with a bit of a broad brush. Notice Kennedy's sig? The thing I notice about law enforcement and military is that such occupations tend to attract a few main types. The "representative" type seems to be big on honor, order, decency. They see themselves and their role as the only thing preventing total anarchy. One of the cops I personally know is of this type. An ex-state police captain, this guy is scary precisely because he does not look or act it. He's a slightly grizzly gray hair with a very mild, friendly manner packing a psychology degree, used to be a SWAT team ninja, and many other things. When I got to know him I kept thinking its a damn good thing this guy chooses to work for the light side of the Force because if he felt like it he could easily be the most dangerous man I've ever known.

Unfortunately the other type, commonly seen on youtube and which I personally have only encountered twice, is the type that appear to specifically revel in abuse of their authority for its own sake.

I've lost track of the number of times I've seen a car pulled over, seat cushions torn out and scattered on the pavement... THAT is why even normal honest law abiding citizens have grown to hate and fear cops. You stand as much chance of being victimized by them as you do thugs and street punks. If they even think you -might- have something they can bust you for, you'll get the full-on felony submission shit and your property and privacy violated. And every law on the books regarding these situations is specifically designed to render you helpless so you don't protest or resist, with wildly vindictive penalties piled on for the slightest sign of defiance or resistance or objection. When the legal system is more focused on rendering you helpless than it is on protecting you, people lose all respect for law and order.

When even the most upright citizens fear the cops theres a problem.

I used to occasionally consider BEING a cop. Add to the number of good cops out there by becoming one.
The reason I never pursued it is simple: I would be required to do things to innocent people which I'd find morally repellent.

A thing you hear a lot is "I'm just doing my job, its the law and theres nothing I can do about that."

"its the law" is used to justify anything and everything law enforcement does to people regardless of morality or actual right and wrong.

So if I was a cop and caught some teens in posession of cigarettes, or a 20 yr old in posession of alcohol, I could not bring myself to treat them the way the law would say I must, and put them in chains and totally fuck up their lives for these "crimes". I drank and smoked when I was underage- everyone I knew back then did. I could not in good conscience bust people for these things. My personal moral code and strict sense of right and wrong would not allow me to bust people for things that are not wrong regardless of whether they are illegal. And thats not how being a cop works. If its illegal, you have to bust em. Meaning if I come across some valedictorian wannabe, 17 year old varsity-letter wearing achiever type whos got a joint in his pocket, I am obligated to bust him, knowing full well that I am methodically destroying that kid's life and future over a stupid fucking piece of plant matter. Not because its wrong or harmful but because its against the law.

I would not be able to sleep at night. The faces of all those innocent people I'd fucked over because "its the law" would haunt me for the rest of my life.

Funny thing is, that sense of morality would make me a "good" cop -except- that I'd insist on using my own judgement, and a cop who does a lot of "catch-and-release" and won't enforce what he sees as unjust laws won't last long.
-B

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[happythoughts 0]

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I think it should be mandatory to video record ALL interactions with the police in this country. Maybe that would keep them a little bit honest.

it is illegal to film the police in some places

my fav line - "do you want me to smash it on the ground?"

[captain1976 0]

I kinda wonder though, why the vicious level of hate in your posts? You seem to either have a grudge or take it real personal. "vermin" is painting them with a bit of a broad brush.