Coreece 189 #26 January 20, 2011 QuoteI think the motives for abortion are far more often fear and incapacity It's certainly hard to determine the thought process of a woman in such a difficult position. All we can do is influence the outcome.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #27 January 20, 2011 Quote Maybe if more people showed love and support to pregnant women, they wouldn't feel like they'd have to make such a terrible decision that should really be last resort. Of course it should be a last resort, but my point is that it should be there as a last resort, because when it wasn't, the last resort was a back-alley butcher with a coat hanger, or finding a doctor who risked being arrested to perform the procedure safely. While a legal abortion isn't a good option, those are worse. And ultimately, I don't want anyone telling a twelve year old child that she has to have her rapists baby. That decision should be hers, her parents' and her doctors, and nobody elses. And once you start making exceptions for rape, then you're encouraging women to lie to get an abortion, and I don't like any law that actively encourages filing a false police report. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #28 January 20, 2011 QuoteQuoteI think the motives for abortion are far more often fear and incapacity It's certainly hard to determine the thought process of a woman in such a difficult position. All we can do is influence the outcome. Influence, of course. Mandate, absolutely not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 189 #29 January 20, 2011 Quote So basically if some guy can get a female pregnant by any means he can force her to have HIS biological child.. Sounds a tad cavemanish to me but that HAS been the norm thru MOST of human existence... so its traditional and very conservative to force biological slavery on the females...she gets no say in what is done to her body Hey as long as YOUR genes go forward to future generations ... its all good right?? You have a very vivid imagination.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyMarko 1 #30 January 21, 2011 Try being adopted. Then take a stance on abortion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #31 January 21, 2011 QuoteTry being adopted. Then take a stance on abortion. I am adopted. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyMarko 1 #32 January 21, 2011 QuoteQuoteTry being adopted. Then take a stance on abortion. I am adopted. My post wasn't a direct response to you, apologies if it looked like that. But now I know you share my viewpoint (hopefully) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #33 January 21, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteTry being adopted. Then take a stance on abortion. I am adopted. My post wasn't a direct response to you, apologies if it looked like that. But now I know you share my viewpoint (hopefully) I made my view pretty clear above, and I know other adoptees that are all over the map with regards to abortion views, so I'm not sure what your viewpoint is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyMarko 1 #34 January 21, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteTry being adopted. Then take a stance on abortion. I am adopted. My post wasn't a direct response to you, apologies if it looked like that. But now I know you share my viewpoint (hopefully) I made my view pretty clear above, and I know other adoptees that are all over the map with regards to abortion views, so I'm not sure what your viewpoint is. Very pro-life.......there, I said it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #35 January 21, 2011 Quote Very pro-life.......there, I said it As am I, in my own life, but like I said above, I'm not going to force someone else into making the same decision I would. Abortion was legal when I was born. My birth mom chose to have me, and I'm glad she did, but I wouldn't have wanted her to be forced to continue a pregnancy if she didn't want to. There are still many women who choose adoption even with abortions being available. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meso 38 #36 January 21, 2011 This thread is in dire need of some misanthropy. Last thing I desire on this world (or we need) is more humans. That said... I would express my views here but it'll boil down to an argument already had before. The idea that humans are somewhat highly more valuable life forms. In my eyes (as a meat eater), if you're pro-life you better be a vegetarian too if you're going to use the 'life is sacred' card. I'd even be willing to skip the idea that a fetus is actually a human. Funny how animals show much more human-like behaviour than a fetus does. During most legal abortions the fetus doesn't have the ability to feel pain, it has no emotions, it doesn't have a developed brain. But apparently the fact that it's of a different species to a cow or pig makes it somewhat holy. I don't see any logic in a parent willingly aborting a fetus being labelled as vile and inhumane- when an animal will have their child which they nurtured killed and it not even be thought about. I can totally respect a human being against abortion in HER body, but trying to stop others from doing it- then you better not be eating meat and spreading bullshit hypocrisy. If life is sacred, make it so across the spectrum not only to what you want to deem worthy life when they share so many characteristics. And don't try saying one is natural and the other isn't. There's plenty you do in your daily life that isn't natural. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 189 #37 January 21, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0&feature=relatedYour secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #38 January 21, 2011 Quote http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0&feature=related i think that is a PA!? it did make me laugh tough.. “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #39 January 21, 2011 I agree with his ultimate conclusion (that it's okay for a woman to be anti-abortion with regards to her own body, but not dictate others choices), but find the reasoning as to how he got there utterly baffling. A fetus is obviously human. Run a DNA test if you're in doubt, and honestly, what else would it be? If you're going to get into the philosophy of what makes us human, are you then going to argue that people with brain injuries are no longer human if their injuries interfere with higher thought processes? That makes no sense at all. And the vegetarian thing doesn't make any sense either. You might as well say "if you oppose killing animals, you should oppose killing plants, because plants are alive too!" Comparing being anti-abortion to being vegetarian isn't just comparing apples and oranges, it's making a fruit salad. Ultimately, none of those arguments are even relevant. Even if the fetus is human (it is), even if it's alive (it is), even if the heart is beating (it is), and even if it has brain waves (probably after about 12 weeks) and can feel pain (probably after 20ish weeks), it doesn't matter. As long as it's inside another person, that other person has the right to say it can't be there anymore. Her rights are greater than the baby's rights. Period. If you are against abortion, don't have one, and don't have sex with someone who would have one. Have a frank discussion with your kids about why you don't want them having sex, but let them know that if there is an unplanned pregnancy that you will support them 100% whether they decide to raise the child or give it to someone else to raise, and that they will be free to make that decision. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #40 January 21, 2011 QuoteI agree with his ultimate conclusion (that it's okay for a woman to be anti-abortion with regards to her own body, but not dictate others choices), but find the reasoning as to how he got there utterly baffling. A fetus is obviously human. Run a DNA test if you're in doubt, and honestly, what else would it be? If you're going to get into the philosophy of what makes us human, are you then going to argue that people with brain injuries are no longer human if their injuries interfere with higher thought processes? That makes no sense at all. And the vegetarian thing doesn't make any sense either. You might as well say "if you oppose killing animals, you should oppose killing plants, because plants are alive too!" Comparing being anti-abortion to being vegetarian isn't just comparing apples and oranges, it's making a fruit salad. Ultimately, none of those arguments are even relevant. Even if the fetus is human (it is), even if it's alive (it is), even if the heart is beating (it is), and even if it has brain waves (probably after about 12 weeks) and can feel pain (probably after 20ish weeks), it doesn't matter. As long as it's inside another person, that other person has the right to say it can't be there anymore. Her rights are greater than the baby's rights. Period. If you are against abortion, don't have one, and don't have sex with someone who would have one. Have a frank discussion with your kids about why you don't want them having sex, but let them know that if there is an unplanned pregnancy that you will support them 100% whether they decide to raise the child or give it to someone else to raise, and that they will be free to make that decision. So, if I understand your opinion, it is really a question of what level of murder you are able to legally commit.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Craterpond 0 #41 January 21, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteTry being adopted. Then take a stance on abortion. I am adopted. My post wasn't a direct response to you, apologies if it looked like that. But now I know you share my viewpoint (hopefully) I made my view pretty clear above, and I know other adoptees that are all over the map with regards to abortion views, so I'm not sure what your viewpoint is. Another Adoptee here, and I am Pro Abortion.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,384 #42 January 21, 2011 >So, if I understand your opinion, it is really a question of what level of murder you >are able to legally commit. Yep. If you redefine words you can claim anything. Heck, if preventing a human life from developing is murder, millions of people do that every day, every time they use a condom (or even masturbate.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #43 January 21, 2011 QuoteSo, if I understand your opinion, it is really a question of what level of murder you are able to legally commit. So, if I understand your opinion, it is really a question of what level of persuasion, lying or rape to imptregnate a woman that you would then see as murder if they will not carry that fetus to term so your genes remain in the gene pool. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #44 January 21, 2011 QuoteQuoteSo, if I understand your opinion, it is really a question of what level of murder you are able to legally commit. So, if I understand your opinion, it is really a question of what level of persuasion, lying or rape to imptregnate a woman that you would then see as murder if they will not carry that fetus to term so your genes remain in the gene pool. No. Look at the synopsis she gave - Human is human - muder is defined, at the most basic level, as taking a human life. Preventing human life is not murder. The question was to her anyway. Why are you so upset?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,621 #45 January 21, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteSo, if I understand your opinion, it is really a question of what level of murder you are able to legally commit. So, if I understand your opinion, it is really a question of what level of persuasion, lying or rape to imptregnate a woman that you would then see as murder if they will not carry that fetus to term so your genes remain in the gene pool. No. Look at the synopsis she gave - Human is human - muder is defined, at the most basic level, as taking a human life. Preventing human life is not murder. The question was to her anyway. Why are you so upset? I suspect you would be upset if you were a 12 y/o female rape victim, and the government forced you to carry and bear the child of the rapist against your will. Haven't you repeatedly written in favor of LESS government intervention?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,621 #46 January 21, 2011 Quote You have a very vivid imagination. This may help you to better articulate your stance.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #47 January 21, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteSo, if I understand your opinion, it is really a question of what level of murder you are able to legally commit. So, if I understand your opinion, it is really a question of what level of persuasion, lying or rape to imptregnate a woman that you would then see as murder if they will not carry that fetus to term so your genes remain in the gene pool. No. Look at the synopsis she gave - Human is human - muder is defined, at the most basic level, as taking a human life. Preventing human life is not murder. The question was to her anyway. Why are you so upset? I suspect you would be upset if you were a female rape victim, and the government forced you to carry and bear the child of the rapist against your will. Haven't you repeatedly written in favor of LESS government intervention? I wouldn't know. As far as less government, Human rights is an issue for which government should be protecting us.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 189 #48 January 21, 2011 Quote Quote You have a very vivid imagination. This may help you to better articulate your stance. I've already articulated my stance about a year ago: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3469374;search_string=abortion;#3469374 Here are some more comments of mine w/r/t abortion since you are so concerned about what I think: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=search_results&search_forum=all&search_string=abortion&search_type=AND&search_fields=sb&search_time=&search_user_username=coreece&sb=score&mh=25Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #49 January 21, 2011 Quote I suspect you would be upset if you were a 12 y/o female rape victim, and the government forced you to carry and bear the child of the rapist against your will. Haven't you repeatedly written in favor of LESS government intervention? Are you saying this happened?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #50 January 21, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteSo, if I understand your opinion, it is really a question of what level of murder you are able to legally commit. So, if I understand your opinion, it is really a question of what level of persuasion, lying or rape to imptregnate a woman that you would then see as murder if they will not carry that fetus to term so your genes remain in the gene pool. No. Look at the synopsis she gave - Human is human - muder is defined, at the most basic level, as taking a human life. Preventing human life is not murder. The question was to her anyway. Why are you so upset? So basically your lieing to get laid and produce offsrping is ok?? In Turtle World I guess that 12 year old is just shit out of luck... just Like Palin would force her to have the child.. even if it could kill her because she is not developed enough. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
