normiss 769 #126 January 9, 2011 Closely agreed. There are a number of fields of study that become critically important when those skills are in need. If I'm personally lucky enough to never need the use of a surgeon, what critical use are they to me? I wouldn't say their skills outweigh any others, just that their market value in our economy allows them to earn more. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #127 January 9, 2011 I can almost agree with that except for one point...we could still function as a society with some not-so-minor changes if we had no surgeons. If we had no weldors our society would come to a screaching halt. Virtually every product made today is either welded or made with or transported to you by equipment that is welded. It is almost IMPOSSIBLE to get through your day without YOUR LIFE depending upon the skill of a weldor at some point during that day. Surgeons play a critical role when their skills are needed, which is relatively rare in a persons life. Skilled tradesmen play a critical role in every persons life every day....and get little thanks for it.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #128 January 9, 2011 QuoteIt is almost IMPOSSIBLE to get through your day without YOUR LIFE depending upon the skill of a weldor at some point during that day. I'll be the first to acknowledge that. I just wish people would give the same recognition to the little brownish guy named Jose who puts all that food on our table every day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #129 January 9, 2011 Quote I can almost agree with that except for one point...we could still function as a society with some not-so-minor changes if we had no surgeons. If we had no weldors our society would come to a screaching halt. Virtually every product made today is either welded or made with or transported to you by equipment that is welded. It is almost IMPOSSIBLE to get through your day without YOUR LIFE depending upon the skill of a weldor at some point during that day. Surgeons play a critical role when their skills are needed, which is relatively rare in a persons life. Skilled tradesmen play a critical role in every persons life every day....and get little thanks for it. Suck huh?Maybe I can rise up with some righteous indignation and say that the General contractors that managed the building of the welding shop you work in isn't getting any thanks either - and with out him - yo would have no place to work. I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 769 #130 January 9, 2011 Dude. If the network is down, those e-mails, engineering drawings, phone calls, web orders, EBT's, meetings, and financial transfers ain't happening either. So bow down bitch. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #131 January 9, 2011 Quote Dude. If the network is down, those e-mails, engineering drawings, phone calls, web orders, EBT's, meetings, and financial transfers ain't happening either. Sow bow down bitch. Meh - I still have to build your hub stations and switches to house all your dellicate, dainty equipment - I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 769 #132 January 9, 2011 Nah, I can set up a satellite based network at the initial power plant in your measly third world country in under 10 minutes. Once the power grid is in place we'll let you start building..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #133 January 9, 2011 Quote Dude. If the network is down, those e-mails, engineering drawings, phone calls, web orders, EBT's, meetings, and financial transfers ain't happening either. So bow down bitch. And if the long-haul is down, all you can do is sit and look at the blinky lights. Bow down, indeed!! Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #134 January 9, 2011 Quote Nah, I can set up a satellite based network at the initial power plant in your measly third world country in under 10 minutes. Once the power grid is in place we'll let you start building..... Nope - by that time - all the welders will have taken over the world.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 769 #135 January 9, 2011 Damn boat people and their fiber. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #136 January 9, 2011 Quote Damn boat people and their fiber. Long-haul fiber is the *biggest* pain in the ass - gimme a satelllite shot anyday.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #137 January 9, 2011 Quote Quote Damn boat people and their fiber. Long-haul fiber is the *biggest* pain in the ass - gimme a satelllite shot anyday. Hmm - How much human welder is used to construct my TV remote? Oooh How about this keyboard? Cuz I either want to switch the channel and watch something or continue this game.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 769 #138 January 9, 2011 I can handle the CONUS paths, it's the over-seas BS that I have problems with. Satellite has an inherent delay that pisses people off. Especially when those engineering drawings are layered so much they are YUGE file sizes. Or some genius parks a dump truck in front of the dish. Troubleshooting an intermittent outage at a power plant in South America a few years ago. Train that delivered coal to the plant interrupted the signal path. What brilliant engineer put the damn dish THERE??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 769 #139 January 9, 2011 um...you do realize the industrial aspect of manufacturing our toys, right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #140 January 9, 2011 QuoteI can handle the CONUS paths, it's the over-seas BS that I have problems with. Satellite has an inherent delay that pisses people off. Especially when those engineering drawings are layered so much they are YUGE file sizes. Or some genius parks a dump truck in front of the dish. Troubleshooting an intermittent outage at a power plant in South America a few years ago. Train that delivered coal to the plant interrupted the signal path. What brilliant engineer put the damn dish THERE??? Maybe he was a welding engineer?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #141 January 9, 2011 Quote um...you do realize the industrial aspect of manufacturing our toys, right? Right - but the Construction Manager should only be second to the architect - and those guys have no clue what works in the real world.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #142 January 9, 2011 QuoteI can handle the CONUS paths, it's the over-seas BS that I have problems with. Satellite has an inherent delay that pisses people off. Especially when those engineering drawings are layered so much they are YUGE file sizes. Or some genius parks a dump truck in front of the dish. Been there, seen that - I've had shots with an offset feed where the dish angle was negative. No offense, but my router guys whine about delay incessantly - I remind them that that same damn circuit was originally on satellite and ran fine. QuoteTroubleshooting an intermittent outage at a power plant in South America a few years ago. Train that delivered coal to the plant interrupted the signal path. What brilliant engineer put the damn dish THERE??? Aint it great?? Makes you wonder what the guys that did the site survey were thinking.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 769 #143 January 9, 2011 Delay is everything these days. I find it funny to call a 30ms response a 'slow' path. But it does affect voice and video (and voice within video too). Most jobs provide value, rating that value on a scale is difficult. Unless you're a Disney union worker.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #144 January 9, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote Cooks, janitors, cashiers, dishwasher, welders, surgeons,... all are important in their own way. When it comes to value in training required to gain the knowledge and expertise needed to perform those jobs the surgeons out weigh the other fields in end-value of training/expertise.. there by making their services more valuable. I wonder what welders malpractice insurance runs annualy. Chicken/egg argument. If welders had the same assets to protect as surgeons, their liability insurance would be higher. Assets = Value last time I checked. Welders don't have as much valuable assets hence the risk is less and the fees associated are less. Not that hard to follow. That depends on the critical the job is. I had to run the rail test car that I ran over from the CSX in Kentucky up near Russel to 47 mile NE of Bluefield, W.VA. onto the Norfolk Southern. I'm to test south into the yard and test a portion of the yard. This was an emergency test and out of my general area. The concern the RR had was the butt-welds the Holland Welding truck just made in the last week were bad as they had several broken welds (broke 100%) and a tanker train did go off the rails and partially into the river. The first weld that I hit, I thought that my setting had to be wrong as the pen swings were wide and sharp. I ran it several lengths of rail before signaling the driver to stop. A typical rail length of rail is 39'ft, therefore there is a flash butt weld every 39'ft, each side. In the 47 miles I tested, I marked out over 90% of the welds that Holland made. We had to stop and verify, by hand test, each and every one of them as they indicated on the test tapes. We started testing at 5pm on a Saturday and finished up at near noon on Sunday. Holland Welding's insurance company paid out the nose for everything. The same went for us guys who were testing the rail and welds. The man on the tapes interpreting the indications can be charged with negligence if a rail break after a test and a person dies or there is property damage due to his failure to properly read the test indications. (In 1992. I ran the rail inspection ahead of George H.W. Bush's campaign train.I took over the test from another car in Michiana, MI and inspected the rail for Bush to Grand Rapids to assure that his train didn't derail due to a rail defect.. Another test car took over from there. Would had hated to miss a major defect on that test and derail Bush's train)"...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #145 January 9, 2011 QuoteSkilled tradesmen play a critical role in every persons life every day....and get little thanks for it. When a skyscraper is built, it is the architect who gets reception. Not the the guy who was 50 stories up on a beam doing whatever his trade is. Fact is, most people get no recognition, or even noticed unless they fuck up big time. Then it cost them their job and everything they worked for. Unions, here in MO have typically assured good wages for welders, plumbers, pipe fitters, mill rights, electricians... Now their is a Republican push for the Right to Work Law.. Voted no on it in 1978, the year I turned 18. The article is dead on about on about down here in Southern Missouri. Jobs just up and left starting back around 2007. http://www.news-leader.com/article/20101226/NEWS01/12260355/Right-to-work-bill-again-on-Missouri-legislature-agenda The new threat is to American truckers, as soon Mexican truckers are given the green light to drive loads beyond the 25 mile zone."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #146 January 9, 2011 QuoteQuoteSkilled tradesmen play a critical role in every persons life every day....and get little thanks for it. When a skyscraper is built, it is the architect who gets reception. Not the the guy who was 50 stories up on a beam doing whatever his trade is. Fact is, most people get no recognition, or even noticed unless they fuck up big time. Then it cost them their job and everything they worked for. Unions, here in MO have typically assured good wages for welders, plumbers, pipe fitters, mill rights, electricians... Now their is a Republican push for the Right to Work Law.. Voted no on it in 1978, the year I turned 18. The article is dead on about on about down here in Southern Missouri. Jobs just up and left starting back around 2007. http://www.news-leader.com/article/20101226/NEWS01/12260355/Right-to-work-bill-again-on-Missouri-legislature-agenda The new threat is to American truckers, as soon Mexican truckers are given the green light to drive loads beyond the 25 mile zone. Personally, I don't know why we let the Mexican drivers come in as far as we do. Five miles would be plenty to set up a lot to drop a trailer. As far as right to work...why do you want to deny a person their inalienable right to work for whom they wish without paying a third party for that right? If the unions don't want to negotiate a contract that covers all employees, union and non-union, then they should decline to represent the non-union people and allow them to speak for themselves.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #147 January 9, 2011 Quotewhy do you want to deny a person their inalienable right to work Aha. If people have an inalienable right to work, howcum everyone wants to deprive aliens of the right to work? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #148 January 9, 2011 QuoteQuotewhy do you want to deny a person their inalienable right to work Aha. If people have an inalienable right to work, howcum everyone wants to deprive aliens of the right to work? My head hurts.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #149 January 9, 2011 QuoteSo I went and did a tandem at Adventure Skydiving this weekend! I always wanted to try freefall. It was so expensive though; cost me $249 for a minute of freefall with video. Man, they rape you there. I mean, you're falling out of an airplane for cryin' out loud. Then I was driving home and I see my tandem master stuck by the side of the road. I pull over and ask him if everything's OK. He said his engine just stalled for no reason. I take a look and after about five minutes I notice his distributor cap is cracked and loose. I get some duct tape, tape it up, snap it back on, and he tries it and it works. I figure it will hold him until he gets to a gas station. 'Hey thanks!' he says. 'No problem,' I say. 'That will be $249, same as you charged me for ten minutes of your time.' He couldn't believe it! He was all spluttering about rig costs and how much he makes. He said he only made $25 a jump. So I said 'OK, that was a minute of freefall, and I took ten minutes, so that's $250.' You should have seen his face. He saved you the wrecker fee and getting stuck, in the dark, in the middle of nowhere. Sounds like a fair trade, to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,936 #150 January 9, 2011 QuoteQuotewhy do you want to deny a person their inalienable right to work Aha. If people have an inalienable right to work, howcum everyone wants to deprive aliens of the right to work? No Christian would ever do that. The Bible forbids it.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
