Best and worst jobs

[turtlespeed 212]

Explination:

A motorcycle mechanic was removing a cylinder-head from the motor of a Harley-Davidson when he spotted a well-known Cardiac Surgeon in his shop.

The Cardiac Surgeon was there waiting for the service manager to come and take a look at his bike when the mechanic shouted across the garage, 'Hey Doc, want to take a look at this?' The Cardiac Surgeon, a bit surprised, walked over to where the mechanic was working on the motorcycle.

The mechanic straightened up, wiped his hands on a rag and asked, 'So Doc, look at this engine. I opened its heart, took the valves out, repaired the damage, and then put them back in, and when I finished, it works just like new.

So how come I make $40,000 a year and you make $1,500,000 when you and I are doing basically the same work?'

The Cardiac Surgeon paused, leaned over, and then whispered to the mechanic...

'Try doing it with the engine running'.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Andy9o8 0]

Heh. The version I hear was:
A guy was carving up a turkey at thanksgiving. He was very careful and methodical about it. He said to the doctor sitting at the table, "So what do you think? I'd make a pretty good surgeon, eh?", to which the doctor replied, "Yeah, that's great. Now let's see you put it all back together."

[VincePetaccio 0]

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Yoiu want a surgeon cutting you open that is will to work foe bottom dollar? Surgeons earn every penny!

I did not request they be paupers, or work for an outrageously low salary; just that they are paid an outrageously high salary. (But very typical for some here to put words in other people's mouths).

I understand there are many factors that go into their salary; and the salary is what I am criticizing - not the integrity of the people or the quality of their work.

When the median is nearly 200% of the next highest, there is something very wrong.

What if they work hours twice as long as the next highest? Most of the whiners on here couldn't BEGIN to work those hours, with the same stresses. Surgeons earn every penny they make. Be grateful you have them.

linz

I am currently working towards an MS in Biomedical Engineering in hopes to become a surgeon, and I already work way too much.

Specifically, in the field I hope to go into (neurosurgery), surgeons typically work 100+ hour weeks.

In terms of hourly pay (based on this report), a surgeon makes about as much as a "bank officer."

Generally, I don't expect I'd be comfortable putting my life in the hands of a bank officer.

Come, my friends! 'Tis not too late to seek out a newer world!

[VincePetaccio 0]

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Yes, I did miss her job description.
And I have never met her.
As I mentioned, I have worked many weeks over 100 hours and know just how ineffective a person becomes from sleep deprivation. Motor skills and judgement deterriate, concentration wanders, etc.
Sorry and nothing personal, but no thank you.

Not necessarily true. Residents work outrageous hours for a reason- it's called conditioning.

Just as a mountain climber must go up a mountain slowly to allow his lungs time to adjust to lower air pressure (by developing more alveoli and increasing efficiency of profusion), so does a surgeon develop more efficient sleep cycles.

Come, my friends! 'Tis not too late to seek out a newer world!

[billvon 2,396]

>Just as a mountain climber must go up a mountain slowly to allow his
>lungs time to adjust to lower air pressure (by developing more alveoli and
>increasing efficiency of profusion), so does a surgeon develop more
>efficient sleep cycles.

Residents admit that fatigue causes problems. 1 in 5 residents say they've been so tired they made a mistake that led to a patient injury or worsened outcome; 1 in 20 say they've been tired enough to contribute to someone's death.

Surgeons, OTOH, get more sleep - and make fewer mistakes due to fatigue.

I've never seen any study showing that 'sleep deprivation acclimation' means you can function better on irregular and insufficient sleep.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Yes, I did miss her job description.
And I have never met her.
As I mentioned, I have worked many weeks over 100 hours and know just how ineffective a person becomes from sleep deprivation. Motor skills and judgement deterriate, concentration wanders, etc.
Sorry and nothing personal, but no thank you.

Not necessarily true. Residents work outrageous hours for a reason- it's called conditioning.

Just as a mountain climber must go up a mountain slowly to allow his lungs time to adjust to lower air pressure (by developing more alveoli and increasing efficiency of profusion), so does a surgeon develop more efficient sleep cycles.

Sorry, you are mistaken. There is no way to condition a human into a super human. There is no way to condition a person to avoid the cumulative effects of sleep deprivation combined with stress.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Explination:

A motorcycle mechanic was removing a cylinder-head from the motor of a Harley-Davidson when he spotted a well-known Cardiac Surgeon in his shop.

The Cardiac Surgeon was there waiting for the service manager to come and take a look at his bike when the mechanic shouted across the garage, 'Hey Doc, want to take a look at this?' The Cardiac Surgeon, a bit surprised, walked over to where the mechanic was working on the motorcycle.

The mechanic straightened up, wiped his hands on a rag and asked, 'So Doc, look at this engine. I opened its heart, took the valves out, repaired the damage, and then put them back in, and when I finished, it works just like new.

So how come I make $40,000 a year and you make $1,500,000 when you and I are doing basically the same work?'

The Cardiac Surgeon paused, leaned over, and then whispered to the mechanic...

'Try doing it with the engine running'.

You do realize that if a person DID try to do a valve job on a Harley with the engine running he would probably lose a finger or two, maybe an eye, probably get severely burned,......
Cute story, but hardly accurate or relevant.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[ridestrong 1]

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Explination:

A motorcycle mechanic was removing a cylinder-head from the motor of a Harley-Davidson when he spotted a well-known Cardiac Surgeon in his shop.

The Cardiac Surgeon was there waiting for the service manager to come and take a look at his bike when the mechanic shouted across the garage, 'Hey Doc, want to take a look at this?' The Cardiac Surgeon, a bit surprised, walked over to where the mechanic was working on the motorcycle.

The mechanic straightened up, wiped his hands on a rag and asked, 'So Doc, look at this engine. I opened its heart, took the valves out, repaired the damage, and then put them back in, and when I finished, it works just like new.

So how come I make $40,000 a year and you make $1,500,000 when you and I are doing basically the same work?'

The Cardiac Surgeon paused, leaned over, and then whispered to the mechanic...

'Try doing it with the engine running'.

You do realize that if a person DID try to do a valve job on a Harley with the engine running he would probably lose a finger or two, maybe an eye, probably get severely burned,......
Cute story, but hardly accurate or relevant.

You do realize it was a f'n joke right.

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[Lindsey 0]

A person can work really long hours without being sleep-deprived. They just may not have time for anything besides work and sleep. This whole thread is silly though. Arguing about whether a welder should make as much money as a surgeon? HAHA! There are few people who have what it takes to become a good surgeon, who are even capable of it. The surgeon, OTOH, would have NO problem learning to weld...lol.

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[1969912 0]

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You do realize that if a person DID try to do a valve job on a Harley with the engine running he would probably lose a finger or two, maybe an eye, probably get severely burned,......
Cute story, but hardly accurate or relevant.

It might even put an eye out. Where is petejones to save our eyes?

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[VincePetaccio 0]

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Sorry, you are mistaken. There is no way to condition a human into a super human. There is no way to condition a person to avoid the cumulative effects of sleep deprivation combined with stress.

Give me some time to dig up the article, but I recently read a paper in which the investigators found that those who consistently sleep less than 8 hours/night enter stage 3 and 4 sleep significantly faster than those who sleep "enough," and remain in those stages longer.

Chronophysiology and biological rhythms are of immense interest to me, and this is something I'm going to look more into! I hope the paper I read is accurate (I read it in passing, more or less); I'd hate to be under the knife of a sleep-deprived surgical resident who can't deal with it!

Come, my friends! 'Tis not too late to seek out a newer world!

[turtlespeed 212]

Surgeon recentlt told my dad, that he would rather go at his session under the knife when he is well rested and in 100% of his faculties.

He could have done the surgery before new years, but elected to do it on the 5th so that there was no stress from family or the holiday season.

I respect that.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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A person can work really long hours without being sleep-deprived. They just may not have time for anything besides work and sleep. This whole thread is silly though. Arguing about whether a welder should make as much money as a surgeon? HAHA! There are few people who have what it takes to become a good surgeon, who are even capable of it. The surgeon, OTOH, would have NO problem learning to weld...lol.

linz

Anybody can learn to weld. Even a surgeon.
Few have what it takes to be good at it and perform the job day in and day out in extreme conditions that would make most people run home to mommy.
A rare few have the ability to look at any job, analyze it, and make a perfect repair the first time every time. To reach that stage of perfection takes years of study,practice, and dedication to learning the unique requirements of every conceivable alloy in any conceivable situation.
Sure I could teach a surgeon to weld. I've done it. But would I trust him enough to send him into a hot section of a nuclear power plant to do a critical repair on a nickel based superalloy? Not anymore than I'd trust the worlds best weldor to do a heart transplant.
In fact, I'd sooner let a weldor do the heart transplant. That way only one person dies.

Sorry, but your claim that 100 hr work weeks for doctors are ok doesn't cut it. Your own JAMA has published articles showing how long work hours and/or lack of sleep negatively affect a doctors performance including critical decisions such as diagnosis. When the number of deaths due to doctors mistakes falls below the number of deaths due to drunk drivers, then you might have an argument.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Yeah, I realize it was a joke.
But there is one question....
Can the surgeon do a valve job on a Harley with it running?
I highly doubt it.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[billvon 2,396]

>Can the surgeon do a valve job on a Harley with it running?
>I highly doubt it.

Give us 20 years and a very good reason to do it - and yes, we could do it. But it would take a lot of training and a lot of equipment, and it would not be cheap.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

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Yeah, I realize it was a joke.
But there is one question....
Can the surgeon do a valve job on a Harley with it running?
I highly doubt it.

They don't do valve jobs on hearts that are running either. They put the patient on a heart-lung machine, stop the heart, do the valve job, then restart the heart. My mom had one done. I understand the basics of it.

(and yes, I realize it was a joke too)

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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>Can the surgeon do a valve job on a Harley with it running?
>I highly doubt it.

Give us 20 years and a very good reason to do it - and yes, we could do it. But it would take a lot of training and a lot of equipment, and it would not be cheap.

Damn it, Bill. Not you've set me to thinking of how to do it. Now I won't be able to sleep until i figure it out.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Surgeon recentlt told my dad, that he would rather go at his session under the knife when he is well rested and in 100% of his faculties.

He could have done the surgery before new years, but elected to do it on the 5th so that there was no stress from family or the holiday season.

I respect that.

Now that surgeon deserves every dollar he makes. I hope your dad is doing well.
If they all did that then there would be far fewer mistakes. Fewer mistakes would lead to lower insurance which would let them earn more while working less. But that is probably too simple an idea and will never catch on.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[VincePetaccio 0]

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Now that surgeon deserves every dollar he makes. I hope your dad is doing well.
If they all did that then there would be far fewer mistakes. Fewer mistakes would lead to lower insurance which would let them earn more while working less. But that is probably too simple an idea and will never catch on.

Not all surgeons have quite the same luxury- certainly this is only possible for elective- or at least planned- procedures.

Simpler does not always = better.

Come, my friends! 'Tis not too late to seek out a newer world!

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Now that surgeon deserves every dollar he makes. I hope your dad is doing well.
If they all did that then there would be far fewer mistakes. Fewer mistakes would lead to lower insurance which would let them earn more while working less. But that is probably too simple an idea and will never catch on.

Not all surgeons have quite the same luxury- certainly this is only possible for elective- or at least planned- procedures.

Simpler does not always = better.

Agreed. However, in this case it does.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[ridestrong 1]

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I'd sooner let a weldor do the heart transplant. That way only one person dies.

You keep trying to make the argument that if a welder FUCKS UP he could kill hundreds of people with his shotty work. Which in turn somehow makes his skill set as, or more important than the surgeons.

but

By that logic, a commuter train conductor could also kill hundreds of people if he/she fucks up. No offense to train conductors, but you can teach a monkey to conduct a train.

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[VincePetaccio 0]

Also, I feel there's a huge difference between having the potential to end a life and having the potential to save a life.

Anybody can kill large sums of people while acting negligently, and it doesn't have anything to do with profession.

Could a weldor save a dying person? Maybe, but probably not.

Could a surgeon save a dying person? Absolutely- in fact, that's the job description.

Come, my friends! 'Tis not too late to seek out a newer world!

[billvon 2,396]

>If they all did that then there would be far fewer mistakes.

Unlikely, since people decide on surgery based on assumed risk. If there's a surgeon out there who can do a very risky procedure more safely than others, then people less likely to have the surgery will go to him - and it all evens out. (The old 'risk homeostasis' theory.)

Sure, you could get around that by saying "you can't have very risky surgery, ever." But that's a tough sell. Then you'd have a _real_ death board - an organization who tells you "sorry, we're not willing to risk it; you'll have to die."

[stitch 0]

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Could a surgeon save a dying person? Absolutely- in fact, that's the job description.

Really ?!? Sounds like a fairly broad classification to me. So you would trust a Urologist to perform open heart surgery on yourself or another family member. Good luck with that.

"No cookies for you"- GFD
"I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65
Don't be a "Racer Hater"

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Also, I feel there's a huge difference between having the potential to end a life and having the potential to save a life.

Anybody can kill large sums of people while acting negligently, and it doesn't have anything to do with profession.

Could a weldor save a dying person? Maybe, but probably not.

Could a surgeon save a dying person? Absolutely- in fact, that's the job description.

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Could a weldor save a dying person? Maybe, but probably not.

Can a surgeon prevent the catastrophic deaths of hundreds of people at the same time?
Maybe, but probably not.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.