Hunting

[rushmc 18]

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So killing because of over-population makes you feel as thought hunting is an enjoyable activity. Fun with the friends eh?

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If deer are not controlled they overpopulate, transmit disease, suffer and die a terrible death

Wow that sounds a lot like this other species I know... Except this other species doesn't have anyone to end their over-population.

The idea that the deer would 'over-populate' is one that is caused by human over-population. And as we populate even more we're going to keep pushing the amount of 'allowed' animals down, because as we expand we'll take over their habitats (as we've done) and then where what was once their home will turn to farms, because as we populate we will need more sources of food.

We're lucky there isn't anyone smarter or stronger than us, or we'd have been culled ages ago.

If anything it is our ethical responsibility not to breed. And don't try say "It's the reason why we're here, our sole purpose is to breed... not doing so would be morally wrong"... Because every animal has the same reason to exist, to procreate, but somehow because we reproduce like destructive rabbits we can now dictate what is more worthy to live.

I'm a misanthropist, it's no secret. But it's these facts that make me one.

No
Hunting is just enjoyable
As is trapping

I hunt only that I will clean and eat (except for cyotes) so I do not hunt deer as I do not like the flavor of them

But I enjoy seeing those who believe as you do post
Makes me happy I beleive as I do

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[skyrider 0]

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People who hunt in order to save money, or survive, are almost non existent in most of the world. If I wanted food, I would go to a nice warm McDonalds and pig out for $3, instead of walking through snow in the freezing cold. Right now, I have hundreds of dollars invested in weapons, hunting licenses, ammunition, etc etc. So there is no way I can deny that it is for recreation.
Recreation is suppose to be something you enjoy right??
Personally, I have only been upland game hunting (pheasant) and some unsuccessful pig hunts. These are animals that I would (and do) thoroughly enjoy eating. I suppose the reason I enjoy hunting, is the challenge of it. Shooting a fast moving target takes skill, as does stalking an animal which has far superior senses to your own. Training to do something which is hard, and then successfully completing that thing, will always give you some sort of satisfaction.

Hunters reduce the overall pain felt by animals, by killing them before they die long deaths usually by starvation, and also by helping fish and game departments by regulating populations. They contribute more money to animal health and population studies than any other source as well, so it certainly isn't all on the "take" side of things.

All of the hunters I have met have been very down to earth and respectful of animals and the environment. They certainly are not so fucked up in the head as to think that killing an animal is on the same level as killing a human being.

Well said, Other than the "non exsistant " part, I know many people that still live by the gun for their food! Y ajust wont find them at many DZ's!

[skyrider 0]

Deer in South Dakota are Wayyyyy over populated to the point of having no fear of humans, we had daily visitors to ur house while at Sturgis..up to 14 in one group one day..
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v400/onekick/sturgis/?action=view&current=081.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v400/onekick/sturgis/077.jpg

And that was the back door to all this noise in front...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v400/onekick/sturgis/IMGP6517.jpg

[Lindsey 0]

LOL...hasn't this turned into a funny thread. OMG!

One thing I love about being a parent is helping my son develop his interests and talents...HIS, not mine. This fall, I've been proud of how he's matured, and it was a really big day for him...and for me...for him to be able to hunt without his mother's supervision. I'm proud of my boy. And though it's not my thing, I'm glad he has fun hunting. He's good at it. :)

Peace~
linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[skyrider 0]

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LOL...hasn't this turned into a funny thread. OMG!

One thing I love about being a parent is helping my son develop his interests and talents...HIS, not mine. This fall, I've been proud of how he's matured, and it was a really big day for him...and for me...for him to be able to hunt without his mother's supervision. I'm proud of my boy. And though it's not my thing, I'm glad he has fun hunting. He's good at it. :)

Peace~
linz

Plus a day he will be thinking back on, when he takes his son out! Now th e"fun" thing makes sense, Passing on the torch...I missed that earlier!

[Nightingale 0]

Personally, I'd be a vegetarian if I had to kill my own food. I'm too much of a softie for the critters and am happy to live in my delusion that meat comes from a grocery store. Philosophically, I don't have a problem with being higher on the food chain. I just couldn't handle it looking at me. I certainly don't judge hunters who can. Provided they eat what they shoot, or make sure it is eaten, or the hunting is done for wildlife conservation reasons. I don't condone sport killing. If it gets killed, it deserves to be eaten.

That said, I don't like the idea of children hunting alone or using firearms unsupervised at all, without an adult, simply because children aren't equipped with the decision making capacity of adults. I have absolutely no objection to teaching kids to shoot. However, I think that allowing them to do so without an adult present may not be the most responsible choice, particularly as there will be nobody capable of rendering aid or carrying a child to safety should an accident occur. However, that's my opinion, and I'm not going to tell anyone else how to raise their kids, as I'm sure you've evaluated the situation and made the best choice for your situation, and things are different in different areas of the country.

[steve1 5]

Good for you Lindsey. Taking an interest in what your boy wants to do. In my mind there is nothing more normal than hunting, fishing, and camping with your kids. It's too bad that so many see your thread as an opportunity to jump on the anti-hunting band wagon......

[champu 1]

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Paying someone to hunt doesn't make you a hunter, it may mean you're no better than he is but it takes a whole different personality to be able to kill an animal while looking at it, as opposed to taking some meat out of the fridge.

Where did I say I'm not a hypocrite? I totally am...

But as I stated, this isn't as much a conversation about eating meat vs not eating meat as it is about being able to kill an animal and try to justify it with flawed theories.

That's why I have no problem paying more for cow than, say, chicken or fish. It trends pretty well with how much I don't want to do it myself.

[Amazon 7]

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Good for you Lindsey. Taking an interest in what your boy wants to do. In my mind there is nothing more normal than hunting, fishing, and camping with your kids. It's too bad that so many see your thread as an opportunity to jump on the anti-hunting band wagon......

Hey I need to jump on YOUR hunting band wagon.... how good of a guide are ya

[nigel99 143]

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Your post makes absolutely no sense.

How do facts change because I eat meat, this isn't about me in any way. Should I get some of my vegan friends to come here and re-post what I said for it to be fact? Or maybe if I just say I'm going vegetarian right now, then will the post be relevant?

Paying someone to hunt doesn't make you a hunter, it may mean you're no better than he is but it takes a whole different personality to be able to kill an animal while looking at it, as opposed to taking some meat out of the fridge.

Where did I say I'm not a hypocrite? I totally am...

But as I stated, this isn't as much a conversation about eating meat vs not eating meat as it is about being able to kill an animal and try to justify it with flawed theories.

It's interesting that you are from RSA and hold this view. I grew up in Zim and generally farmers tended to hunt and city people didn't (I realise that I am generalising here).

I don't have a problem with hunting and generally my experience has been that hunters are "ethical" and genuinely care that the animal suffers as little pain as possible. In fact friends who were enthusiastic about hunting used to get very upset and angry with people who wounded animals and didn't get a clean kill.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[Coreece 190]

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AGAIN with the God?! Seriously...

Ya...but, you ain't seen nothing yet.

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Your entire post was actually pretty worthless, with nothing important or relevant other than more "GOD GOD GOD"

Thanks...

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You need your own evangelical TV show.

I don't know how that would work out...it might have to be on HBO.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[skyrider 0]

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AGAIN with the God?! Seriously...

Ya...but, you ain't seen nothing yet.

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Your entire post was actually pretty worthless, with nothing important or relevant other than more "GOD GOD GOD"

Thanks...

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You need your own evangelical TV show.

I don't know how that would work out...it might have to be on HBO.

I'm athiest, and the mention of God doesn;t bother me one bit...is it supposed to? I never got the memo..(I'd of tossed it anyway)

God is a huge part of many people s lives...I see no problem with that! (other than laws made simply by religious beliefs)

[rehmwa 2]

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I don't have a problem with hunting and generally my experience has been that hunters are "ethical" and genuinely care that the animal suffers as little pain as possible. In fact friends who were enthusiastic about hunting used to get very upset and angry with people who wounded animals and didn't get a clean kill.

this is also what I see - Hunters are the non-hypocritical environmentalists - they actually understand conservation and mean it and not just spout off on it in an unmeaningful way to to make points with the others sitting at the expresso shop.

I would hunt for self defense - you ever see a cow or chicken staring at a school bus? You just KNOW they'd kill and eat everyone on board if they could just purchase ammo and tenderizer.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[wmw999 2,120]

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Hunters are the non-hypocritical environmentalists

I wouldn't go so far. I know hunters who only care about the availability of deer for them to shoot, who leave crap behind. And I know non-hunters who try to live in a non-wasteful manner themselves, without preaching to others.

Conserving only the items that one is interested in isn't environmentalism, it's self-interest.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[billvon 2,394]

>Hunters are the non-hypocritical environmentalists -

Some are, some aren't. Some understand the need to preserve open space to allow hunting to go on forever. Some simply want to hunt as much as possible, and don't really care if their kids have anywhere (or anything) left to hunt. Some even drink espresso (o the horror.)

[skyrider 0]

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>Hunters are the non-hypocritical environmentalists -

Some are, some aren't. Some understand the need to preserve open space to allow hunting to go on forever. Some simply want to hunt as much as possible, and don't really care if their kids have anywhere (or anything) left to hunt. Some even drink espresso (o the horror.)

Happenes in all sports, how many days have you woke up to a totla mess at the DZ from slobs that left evry piece of trash behind...or found beer/soda/water bottles on a mountains trail...Trash at the bottom of the ocean while scuba diving...seems impossible to keep the slobs out of a sport!

[steve1 5]

I'm proud to say that I hunt. That doesn't mean that I like all hunters. I know there is such a thing as slob hunters. Some hunt with little or no ethics. I hate people like that. I don't think the majority of hunters are like that though.

I grew up living in a rural area. Hunting was something most of us did. It was rarely easy. You learned to respect nature and everything in it. I feel that many have lost that respect by living in an urban setting.

If you could experience a quality hunt, I think you would be hooked on the sport. Hunting is a lot more than killing. I don't even enjoy that part of hunting any more. What I do enjoy is being afield with my family.....The meat is an added bonus.

[wmw999 2,120]

I've been on a quality hunt (with my ex-husband and some friends). It's not really for me, but I have absolutely no objection to hunting -- if nothing else, well, I do eat meat, and specifically enjoy venison. Although I'm not real big on javelina or possum .

I was objecting to the categorization of hunters as being "the non-hypocritical environmentalists." Mainly because they aren't all that way, and there are non-hypocritical non-hunting environmentalists out there as well.

It's hard to say that someone is an entirely non-hypocritical environmentalist, because we all eat, drink, breathe, crap, and the vast majority of us wear clothing (thank goodness ).

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rehmwa 2]

what? you object to the blanket stereotype
well, I never.....

As for your little statement - man, talk about blanket generalizations...

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we all eat, drink, breathe, crap

well, I know SOME people that eat, drink, breath, and crap, but I know some other people that.........well.....nevermind

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[skyrider 0]

The only hunting I look down on, Is Trophy hunting....I mean, WTF? if you are not going to eat it, use a camera...it takes even more skill to get a good photo, than it does to make a good shot!

[wmw999 2,120]

Hey -- I did leave the option for clothes open .

I guess if someone is on TPN eating, drinking and crapping shouldn't apply to them. But they'd still pee (I think)

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rhaig 0]

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The idea that the deer would 'over-populate' is one that is caused by human over-population. And as we populate even more we're going to keep pushing the amount of 'allowed' animals down, because as we expand we'll take over their habitats (as we've done) and then where what was once their home will turn to farms, because as we populate we will need more sources of food.

so what you're saying is that it's a territory war. Gee... that never happens in nature between two species.

Deer are one of the many natural resources we (the human species) have decided to exploit for our use. It is our responsibility to care for the natural resources we (as a species) decide to exploit so that they will be around for others in a few generations. It is also our responsibility to train those next generations to have the same attitude towards preservation of natural resources (note that preservation and conservation are not synonyms). To that end, it is possible to responsibly hunt deer and other species while both preserving the species and enjoying the exploitation of them.

--
Rob

[skyrider 0]

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Truth be told, I try not to kill any animals- whether it be insects- whatever... I generally catch them and put them outside. Only time I kill em is when it's something that can potentially attack me, and even then it's a last resort.

From what I've read insects for the most part don't feel pain, which is a big factor in it. I've also not aware of insects having the same emotional distress/mourning that other larger animals have shown. I'd assume it's something that comes with brain size and the ability for certain brain activity. Though one may prove me wrong.

And even with the killing of an insect, if the mind-set is one of "yeah I totally just killed it, I'm so bad ass right now", it's equally as retarded in my view.

Insects don't feel pain???

Is this the fantasy you want to believe so you don'tt feel bad? (my guess)

Anyone that has ever seen a injured insect, "Knows" they feel pain, just as we do, They will do everything to try to survive, they are no more or less than we are! They WANT to LIVE...Animals want to live, People want to live..

For now, we are the top of the food chain, we are no better, nor worse than any creature on this planet , we ALL kill to survive, even plant eaters, kill plants!

[steve1 5]

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The only hunting I look down on, Is Trophy hunting....I mean, WTF? if you are not going to eat it, use a camera...it takes even more skill to get a good photo, than it does to make a good shot!

I used to trophy hunt all the time, even with a bow. It was more of a challenge than just hunting for the first doe that steps out. I don't like to end my season the first day out.

Usually the toughest animal to get is one that has a big rack. They don't get old by being stupid.

And that doesn't mean that I waste the meat. I make every effort to salvage any usable meat. I even tan the hide, make gun and coat racks out of the feet, and mount the head.....I don't like to waste anything on the game I take. My dogs get the bones and scraps.

All this ties in to hunting ethics, and having respect for the animal you hunt. I try to never take a shot unless I can make a clean kill. (I don't want anything to suffer.) I wish more hunters hunted like that.....I know many don't.

[Lindsey 0]

I think the excitement of the weekend hunt sans mama did him in. Jay was home today with a migraine...a bad one. Ugh. They saw lots of doe. Reuben shot one. Jay did not. They saw two young bucks, a 5 point and a 6 point that they didn't shoot at--we've seen them a few times this fall, but they're small and will be bigger next year.

Reuben has hunted a lot with his dad, a childhood friend of mine, but this was the first deer he's killed. He was so excited. His dad stayed up late showing Reuben how to clean it. I can't help Jay with that. But Reuben was excited to provide his family with some meals for the winter. :)

linz

Edited to add: and as Jay said tonight, "This is REALLY good chicken, Mom!" I had to think of the birds in the back of those trucks. They always stop next to you at a light and make you look. THEY suffer. Deer don't.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail