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wolfriverjoe 1,340
Ok, I'm confused.
Are you saying we should stop treating people different than us like subhumans so that they won't take advantage of any opportunity to get back at us?
Or are you saying that the people we treat like shit should never be given any chances at any responsibility because they will take advantage of those opportunities to have their revenge?
Are you saying we should stop treating people different than us like subhumans so that they won't take advantage of any opportunity to get back at us?
Or are you saying that the people we treat like shit should never be given any chances at any responsibility because they will take advantage of those opportunities to have their revenge?
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy
"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo
"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo
jakee 1,254
QuoteOk, I'm confused.
Are you saying...
He's not saying anything, he's just 'putting it out there for discussion'.
That way he gets to judge the responses before he lets us know if he ever actually agreed with it or not
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
winsor 186
The problem with Ann Coulter is that I can not get past her screaming in print to find out whether I agree with her or not. Same thing with Amazon.
The idea that homosexuals are unfit for combat would have kept Alexander the Great at home, had he subscribed to it. The same goes for some of the most brilliant military men (and perhaps women, witness the Amazons...) throughout history.
Some of the problems we have had with security breaches originating with gays have more to do with our society in general than with the military per se. Though an outsider to the "gay world," I have lived in areas with very large gay populations, and have been exposed to some of the realities of their lifestyle.
One guy, who was very gay (he died of cancer), was asked by my brother why he had a wife. He responded that he married to be "normal," since "nobody wants to be a pariah." He later accepted the fact that he was gay, and his wife had already figured it out and was at peace with it.
As a matter of survival, many gays have lived a lie for the bulk of their lives. Since admission to their sexual persuasion could result in expressions of disapproval ranging from shunning to unemployment to severe beatings to imprisonment to death, many gays are understandably leery about letting on their sexual persuasion.
The EPQ (embarrassing personal question) disqualifier for employment with the NSA is "have you had an adult homosexual experience?" Homosexuality is up there with kleptomania and drug use, in that the willingness to engage in proscribed activity is enough to remove one from consideration.
It is, of course ironic, that Alan Turing was one of the most gifted cryptanalysts that ever lived, and he was destroyed for his homosexuality.
Would I share a foxhole with a homosexual? If they could shoot straight and stay awake on watch, you had better believe it. When you're up to your ass in gomers and things are going bang around you, the last thing I am worried about is who someone does or does not sleep with.
Similarly, my only objection to women in combat is if they are not strong enough to carry me back to safety should I be wounded. If you have a woman who can saddle up a 65 pound rucksack plus a machine gun and hump it 14 miles before nightfall, I want her on my fire team.
As James Webb noted, if you train by touch-football rules it does not help you much when you go up against the Green Bay Packers. When going into combat, it is best to count on facing the Varsity.
In any event, from the standpoint of reliability in combat, the idea that sexual orientation is a factor is absurd. There have always been stellar combat leaders whose homosexuality was accepted, if not openly acknowledged. I have been honored to know a number of them.
From the standpoint of security, however, the track record of gays in the U.S. intelligence services has been less than stellar. Perhaps allowing them to let on that they are gay, while still holding them to "conduct unbecoming" standards (spare me the details, dude, that's too much information...) would change this. If everything one does is a Felony, the whole right/wrong thing is seen from a rather skewed perspective.
Had the person who leaked all these documents openly aligned himself with the Baha'i faith, one could expect rather a groundswell of opinion against the dastardly Baha'i. Unfortunately for the gay community, he is a cranky homosexual.
When voting for a bill, the options are pretty much "aye" or "nay;" there is no box for "it is not that simple."
While I am in favor of universal conscription, and for service as a prerequisite for citizenship a la "Starship Troopers," I think that a form of DADT that protects gays from malicious outing is the best we can do for the moment.
In any event, given all the things I need to worry about, I am glad this is not one of them.
BSBD,
Winsor
The idea that homosexuals are unfit for combat would have kept Alexander the Great at home, had he subscribed to it. The same goes for some of the most brilliant military men (and perhaps women, witness the Amazons...) throughout history.
Some of the problems we have had with security breaches originating with gays have more to do with our society in general than with the military per se. Though an outsider to the "gay world," I have lived in areas with very large gay populations, and have been exposed to some of the realities of their lifestyle.
One guy, who was very gay (he died of cancer), was asked by my brother why he had a wife. He responded that he married to be "normal," since "nobody wants to be a pariah." He later accepted the fact that he was gay, and his wife had already figured it out and was at peace with it.
As a matter of survival, many gays have lived a lie for the bulk of their lives. Since admission to their sexual persuasion could result in expressions of disapproval ranging from shunning to unemployment to severe beatings to imprisonment to death, many gays are understandably leery about letting on their sexual persuasion.
The EPQ (embarrassing personal question) disqualifier for employment with the NSA is "have you had an adult homosexual experience?" Homosexuality is up there with kleptomania and drug use, in that the willingness to engage in proscribed activity is enough to remove one from consideration.
It is, of course ironic, that Alan Turing was one of the most gifted cryptanalysts that ever lived, and he was destroyed for his homosexuality.
Would I share a foxhole with a homosexual? If they could shoot straight and stay awake on watch, you had better believe it. When you're up to your ass in gomers and things are going bang around you, the last thing I am worried about is who someone does or does not sleep with.
Similarly, my only objection to women in combat is if they are not strong enough to carry me back to safety should I be wounded. If you have a woman who can saddle up a 65 pound rucksack plus a machine gun and hump it 14 miles before nightfall, I want her on my fire team.
As James Webb noted, if you train by touch-football rules it does not help you much when you go up against the Green Bay Packers. When going into combat, it is best to count on facing the Varsity.
In any event, from the standpoint of reliability in combat, the idea that sexual orientation is a factor is absurd. There have always been stellar combat leaders whose homosexuality was accepted, if not openly acknowledged. I have been honored to know a number of them.
From the standpoint of security, however, the track record of gays in the U.S. intelligence services has been less than stellar. Perhaps allowing them to let on that they are gay, while still holding them to "conduct unbecoming" standards (spare me the details, dude, that's too much information...) would change this. If everything one does is a Felony, the whole right/wrong thing is seen from a rather skewed perspective.
Had the person who leaked all these documents openly aligned himself with the Baha'i faith, one could expect rather a groundswell of opinion against the dastardly Baha'i. Unfortunately for the gay community, he is a cranky homosexual.
When voting for a bill, the options are pretty much "aye" or "nay;" there is no box for "it is not that simple."
While I am in favor of universal conscription, and for service as a prerequisite for citizenship a la "Starship Troopers," I think that a form of DADT that protects gays from malicious outing is the best we can do for the moment.
In any event, given all the things I need to worry about, I am glad this is not one of them.
BSBD,
Winsor
mnealtx 0
Well said, Winsor.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
Amazon 7
Another one that just cain't hep hissef
Just keep it up shurly... cause I am that woman that can pick up your scrawny ass while carryin that pack and all the other stuff.
I have seen plenty of guys that can't hack that standard you set.
Personally I think EVERY job should be open to ANYONE who wishes to volunteer for it. If you have the apptitude for it.. and you can hack the same standard, you get the job.
mnealtx 0
QuoteAnother one that just cain't hep hissef
Evidently you missed the part where he said he had no problems serving with gay people.
Reading really *is* fundamental.
QuoteJust keep it up shurly... cause I am that woman that can pick up your scrawny ass while carryin that pack and all the other stuff.
I have seen plenty of guys that can't hack that standard you set.
Then they shouldn't have the job.
QuotePersonally I think EVERY job should be open to ANYONE who wishes to volunteer for it. If you have the apptitude for it.. and you can hack the same standard, you get the job.
Then the three of us agree on the subject.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
winsor 186
QuoteAnother one that just cain't hep hissef
Just keep it up shurly... cause I am that woman that can pick up your scrawny ass while carryin that pack and all the other stuff.Quote
If my weight is reduced by traumatic amputation and I need a little help getting to a medevac, I will most assuredly appreciate your demonstration of said ability.
I have seen plenty of guys that can't hack that standard you set.Quote
Me too. The washout rate from my class in Jump School, of those who qualified to get in in the first place, was 70%.
Personally I think EVERY job should be open to ANYONE who wishes to volunteer for it. If you have the apptitude for it.. and you can hack the same standard, you get the job.
Roger that. I do not give a rat's ass WHAT kind of special privilege someone claims - whether they are from a favored ethnic group or their daddy was a Senator - if they can not deliver. If, however, someone is from a favored ethnic group or their daddy was a Senator and they do a brilliant job, all I care about is the fact that they are committed to doing a brilliant job and deliver.
Screw it - as Joe Namath said, "If you've got it, flaunt it!"
BSBD,
Winsor
Amazon 7
QuoteQuoteAnother one that just cain't hep hissef
Evidently you missed the part where he said he had no problems serving with gay people.
Reading really *is* fundamental.QuoteJust keep it up shurly... cause I am that woman that can pick up your scrawny ass while carryin that pack and all the other stuff.
I have seen plenty of guys that can't hack that standard you set.
Then they shouldn't have the job.QuotePersonally I think EVERY job should be open to ANYONE who wishes to volunteer for it. If you have the apptitude for it.. and you can hack the same standard, you get the job.
Then the three of us agree on the subject.
QuoteThe problem with Ann Coulter is that I can not get past her screaming in print to find out whether I agree with her or not. Same thing with Amazon.
What are those rules again MIKEEE, but I do so love the attention and being the part of any generic slam that anyone wishes to make????
QuoteReading really *is* fundamental.
Yes.... yes it *is*
mnealtx 0
QuoteWhat are those rules again MIKEEE, but I do so love the attention and being the part of any generic slam that anyone wishes to make????
What rules would those be - that you get a free pass on slamming people?
Given that you make more insulting / inflammatory posts than any three other people in this sub-forum, the 'innocent victim' act is a bit...threadbare.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
Amazon 7
QuoteQuoteWhat are those rules again MIKEEE, but I do so love the attention and being the part of any generic slam that anyone wishes to make????
What rules would those be - that you get a free pass on slamming people?
Given that you make more insulting / inflammatory posts than any three other people in this sub-forum, the 'innocent victim' act is a bit...threadbare.
Gee no comment on the rest huh.... go figger
Sorry but if I would get a banning or a warning for something similar pardon me if I point out a similar post... now untwist those little girl panties and suck it up cupiedoll.
mnealtx 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteWhat are those rules again MIKEEE, but I do so love the attention and being the part of any generic slam that anyone wishes to make????
What rules would those be - that you get a free pass on slamming people?
Given that you make more insulting / inflammatory posts than any three other people in this sub-forum, the 'innocent victim' act is a bit...threadbare.
Gee no comment on the rest huh.... go figger
Sorry but if I would get a banning or a warning for something similar pardon me if I point out a similar post... now untwist those little girl panties and suck it up cupiedoll.
Thanks for (yet again) proving my point - and his.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
labrys 0
QuoteThat is EXACTLY why DADT should be revoked. Take away the option of blackmail.
Mike, I served as a lesbian in the somewhat darker years before DADT and I was fully prepared to go to the brig, because that was a not entirely uncommon parking place for gays awaiting dishonorable discharge, before I would allow anyone to blackmail me.
It was, for me and many of my gay and lesbian friends, a topic of discussion. We wanted to serve for many reasons, and as odd as it might sound we were willing to betray an oath in so far as we had to swear we were not gay to enlist, but we would not betray that oath to serve our country otherwise, even if it meant imprisonment and shame.
As far as this jackoff Manning goes, he's just a twit. His sexuality has nothing to do with it.
Owned by Remi #?
mnealtx 0
QuoteMike, I served as a lesbian in the somewhat darker years before DADT and I was fully prepared to go to the brig, because that was a not entirely uncommon parking place for gays awaiting dishonorable discharge, before I would allow anyone to blackmail me.
It was, for me and many of my gay and lesbian friends, a topic of discussion. We wanted to serve for many reasons, and as odd as it might sound we were willing to betray an oath in so far as we had to swear we were not gay to enlist, but we would not betray that oath to serve our country otherwise, even if it meant imprisonment and shame.
Thank you for your service, and for that of your friends.
QuoteAs far as this jackoff Manning goes, he's just a twit. His sexuality has nothing to do with it.
Agreed.
From Admiral Mullen:
QuoteMullen told a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing that the military is based on meritocracy, "what you do, not who you are." He said if Congress changes the don't ask, don't tell policy then the U.S. military will comply.
And if some people have a problem with that, they may not want to join the service.
"Should repeal occur, some soldiers and Marines may want separate shower facilities. Some may ask for different berthing. Some may even quit the service," Mullen said. "We'll deal with that."
Mullen added that "there is no gray area" in the debate when it comes to standards of conduct in the military.
"We treat each other with respect or we find another place to work. Period," he said.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
QuoteAs far as this jackoff Manning goes, he's just a twit. His sexuality has nothing to do with it.
Exactly. Leave it to Coulter and her followers to turn this into an issue about sexuality. Robert Hannsen and Aldrich Ames are two individuals who caused far more damage than Manning.
Skyrad 0
I'm not going to bother to grace that post with a serious response, but
Quote
I'm not a military man, but I think singing along to Lady Gaga would constitute "telling" under "don't ask, don't tell."
That was pretty damn funny
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
COOOL less people under the bed to watch for.
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