WHY NO SALUTE BY OBAMA @ MoH CEREMONY?

[normiss 620]

You keep trying and you keep failing.
I don't want to play the childish games of pointing out the folly of either side. It's just too easy.

[jakee 1,254]

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Thank you.

Damn, we Tea Party people have to find better examples.

Or even better, just stop looking.

Every example you people have of Obama hating the US has turned out to be a severely twisted, if not downright false, version of events and/or historical precedent. That should be a clue: he really doesn't hate the USA.

As nightingale said, policies, not person.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Nightingale 0]

I think Obama probably loves the US just as much as the posters here love their countries. His vision of where the US ought to be headed is different than many of ours, that's all.

Do I love my country? Yes. Do I want to change things about it's current laws/government/policies? Yes.
Will everyone agree with me about that? No.
Do I think they're wrong? Well, duh.
Does that mean they love America less than I do? No.

There are a lot of opinions here, and we're free to express them, and disagree with each other. That's part of being American, and I think it's one of the coolest parts. It's even written into the First Amendment.


I'd love to have the chance to sit down with Obama and debate his policies. It'd be fun.

[RonD1120 58]

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Thank you.

Damn, we Tea Party people have to find better examples.

Nah, you should just keep making stuff up.

Since the article in the OP was authored by an ACLU lawyer, which I equate with Liberal, I assumed his position was accurate. Just another example of mistrust in the left. MY bad.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Skyrad 0]

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Foreign opinions are without honor.

LOL... You can't even spell the word

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[RonD1120 58]

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Foreign opinions are without honor.

LOL... You can't even spell the word

Excuse me, which word are you referring to?

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[jakee 1,254]

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Foreign opinions are without honor.

LOL... You can't even spell the word

Excuse me, which word are you referring to?

Fuchsia.

No-one can spell fuchsia.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[livendive 8]

Was Obama in uniform, and covered?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[livendive 8]

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FWIW,
When I was in, we were specifically told to salute only when in uniform, and only when wearing a 'cover'.

This.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Nightingale 0]

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Intentional. Common sense will not lead you to salvation in Christ Jesus.

However, not on topic.

Also not on topic, but I would disagree. (sorry. can't resist an argument. ) I'm not so sure "common sense" would be the right word, but maybe "logic"?

Consider the following:

"Ars qutedam necessaria est, quae sit directiva ipsius actus rationis, per quam scilicet homo in ipso actu rationis ordinate faciliter et sine errore procedat. Et haec ars est logica, id est rationalis scientia."

or in other words:

"Logic is the science and art which directs the act of the reason, by which a man in the exercise of his reason is enabled to proceed without error, confusion, or unnecessary difficulty."

-Thomas Aquinas (Expositio libri Posteriorum Analyticorum, liber I)



Have you read Thomas Aquinas's Summa Theologica? I found it fascinating. (and an annoying reminder that my Latin has gotten really rusty, so I found the English translation on line here: http://www.ccel.org/ccel/aquinas/summa.toc.html)

[Nightingale 0]

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Since the article in the OP was authored by an ACLU lawyer, which I equate with Liberal, I assumed his position was accurate. Just another example of mistrust in the left. MY bad.

He was a FORMER ACLU attorney, according to... him. I can't find a record of anything he did with the ACLU (admittedly, it was a ten minute google search, so something more exhaustive may produce something), so I'm guessing it was something he did for a short while.

Looks like everything he's written that has been published on the internet has been from a very Republican point of view, and generally very anti-ACLU.


Rule #8: Never take anything for granted.

[GeorgiaDon 340]

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Consider the following:

"Ars qutedam necessaria est, quae sit directiva ipsius actus rationis, per quam scilicet homo in ipso actu rationis ordinate faciliter et sine errore procedat. Et haec ars est logica, id est rationalis scientia."

or in other words:

"Logic is the science and art which directs the act of the reason, by which a man in the exercise of his reason is enabled to proceed without error, confusion, or unnecessary difficulty."

-Thomas Aquinas (Expositio libri Posteriorum Analyticorum, liber I)



Have you read Thomas Aquinas's Summa Theologica? I found it fascinating. (and an annoying reminder that my Latin has gotten really rusty, so I found the English translation on line here: http://www.ccel.org/...uinas/summa.toc.html)

Thank you for the link. Thomas Aquinas is essential reading for anyone who wants to actually think about these issues.

I agree with you about "common sense". I know people for whom "common sense" has led them to religion, and people who have had the opposite experience. RonD1120's intentional rejection of "common sense" on the grounds that it won't lead to "salvation in Jesus Christ" seemed to me to be an outrageous (although unintentional) condemnation of religion.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[RonD1120 58]

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Intentional. Common sense will not lead you to salvation in Christ Jesus.

However, not on topic.

Also not on topic, but I would disagree. (sorry. can't resist an argument. ) I'm not so sure "common sense" would be the right word, but maybe "logic"?

Consider the following:

"Ars qutedam necessaria est, quae sit directiva ipsius actus rationis, per quam scilicet homo in ipso actu rationis ordinate faciliter et sine errore procedat. Et haec ars est logica, id est rationalis scientia."

or in other words:

"Logic is the science and art which directs the act of the reason, by which a man in the exercise of his reason is enabled to proceed without error, confusion, or unnecessary difficulty."

-Thomas Aquinas (Expositio libri Posteriorum Analyticorum, liber I)



Have you read Thomas Aquinas's Summa Theologica? I found it fascinating. (and an annoying reminder that my Latin has gotten really rusty, so I found the English translation on line here: http://www.ccel.org/ccel/aquinas/summa.toc.html)

No argument, in your contextual construct the substitution of logic for common sense is applicable.

In my world and in my former profession, I try to persuade behavior change by guiding the soul through the barrier of pain. That is, no one changes behavior until they realize that the pain of change is less than the pain of staying the same. Or another old saying, if you keep doing what you've always done you will keep getting what you've always got.

In the response to TKHayes et.al., he is generally arrogant and sarcastic with me so I try to reply in like manner without being sanctioned by the moderators. I enjoy the intellectual challenge.

I have never read Thomas Aquinas. My faith is based in personal experience with Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Following the miracle of salvation at Mono Lake, I have concentrated on the study and application of the New Testament with the guidance of the Holy Spirit in my life and the lives of others. I accept the Word of God as absolute truth that can be directly relied upon. It is a choice. That choice has been very beneficial for me and I do not think for a minute that I am unique.

Maybe in retirement I will find the time to study some of the great theologians and teachers.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 58]

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Rule #8: Never take anything for granted.

Admonishment accepted. For me, romantic, in the classical sense, motivation is the spice of social interaction. It is not whether we win or lose but how much dust we can kick up on the playing field.

How much logic and common sense resides in those choices? It depends on the perspective. There are separate realities and we choose where we like to play. For example, Michael Phillips Seventh Law of Money, "The are worlds without money." He was referring to worlds within the U.S. I made the choice to play in that arena a long time ago and thus avoided many of the headaches of the first six laws.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[rehmwa 2]

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My faith is based in personal experience with Jesus Christ of Nazareth

you must be older than twardo

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[RonD1120 58]

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My faith is based in personal experience with Jesus Christ of Nazareth

you must be older than twardo

Yep, I think somewhere around 15 years.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Nightingale 0]

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I have never read Thomas Aquinas. My faith is based in personal experience with Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Following the miracle of salvation at Mono Lake, I have concentrated on the study and application of the New Testament with the guidance of the Holy Spirit in my life and the lives of others. I accept the Word of God as absolute truth that can be directly relied upon. It is a choice. That choice has been very beneficial for me and I do not think for a minute that I am unique.

Maybe in retirement I will find the time to study some of the great theologians and teachers.

Summa Theologica is a surprisingly easy read (at least, the English translation), in the form of questions and answers, most less than a page long, starting out with "Is there a God?" and going from there to the nature of God, the Trinity, the nature of good and evil, the nature of Christ, etc..., putting Biblical concepts alongside tangible observations. You would probably find parts 1 and 3 most interesting.

I think a lot of protestants avoid things like the Summa, because it does rely on things outside the Bible, like logic and observation to provide strength to its points (and, as it is pre-reformation, it was obviously written by a Catholic), and uses these things alongside the Bible. However, they forget that to a non-Christian, the Bible alone is as meaningless as the Vedas or the Koran is to a Christian, so spouting off Bible verses to an atheist with absolutely nothing else is probably going to be very ineffective. In speaking with them, the arguments found in the Summa may be very useful. There is a vast difference between belief as an act of faith and believing as an act of blind faith.

[gjhdiver 0]

Many presidents have not saluted at MoH ceremonies, many of them Republican.

Of course, anyone who believes that an imaginary 2000 year old carpenter is keeping tabs on everyone, already has what can most kindly be described as a nodding acquaintance with reality.

[RonD1120 58]

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I have never read Thomas Aquinas. My faith is based in personal experience with Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Following the miracle of salvation at Mono Lake, I have concentrated on the study and application of the New Testament with the guidance of the Holy Spirit in my life and the lives of others. I accept the Word of God as absolute truth that can be directly relied upon. It is a choice. That choice has been very beneficial for me and I do not think for a minute that I am unique.

Maybe in retirement I will find the time to study some of the great theologians and teachers.

Summa Theologica is a surprisingly easy read (at least, the English translation), in the form of questions and answers, most less than a page long, starting out with "Is there a God?" and going from there to the nature of God, the Trinity, the nature of good and evil, the nature of Christ, etc..., putting Biblical concepts alongside tangible observations. You would probably find parts 1 and 3 most interesting.

I think a lot of protestants avoid things like the Summa, because it does rely on things outside the Bible, like logic and observation to provide strength to its points (and, as it is pre-reformation, it was obviously written by a Catholic), and uses these things alongside the Bible. However, they forget that to a non-Christian, the Bible alone is as meaningless as the Vedas or the Koran is to a Christian, so spouting off Bible verses to an atheist with absolutely nothing else is probably going to be very ineffective. In speaking with them, the arguments found in the Summa may be very useful. There is a vast difference between belief as an act of faith and believing as an act of blind faith.

You have presented a convincing argument to read it. Maybe right after I finish Decision Points by George W. Bush.

As I have said many times before, I do not think you can logically persuade anyone to accept Jesus by debate. I believe you can only plant the seeds. Then somewhere down the line the Holy Spirit will put them at the defining crossroads where the life assurance decision is a viable alternative. At that juncture they either accept or reject Christ. If they accept Jesus in their humble heart they will receive undeniable validation and confirmation. If they reject Him they will receive an increase of satanic evidence that they have made the right choice and they are truly masters of their fate.

I believe there are those among us here on SC that have chosen the latter course of action. Likewise their are some for whom the decision is pending.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[jakee 1,254]

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As I have said many times before, I do not think you can logically persuade anyone to accept Jesus by debate

I agree.

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If they reject Him they will receive an increase of satanic evidence that they have made the right choice and they are truly masters of their fate.

And that really is why...




But not in the way you meant.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[shermanator 3]

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Foreign opinions are without honor.

right wing conservative christian opinions are without common sense.....

Intentional. Common sense will not lead you to salvation in Christ Jesus.

However, not on topic.

So, despite supposedly being "created" with the unique ability to reason (according to the bible you follow), you turn your back on reason and logic and instead advocate blind acceptance of whatever "truth" the conservative blog-o-sphere (or minister, or whatever authority figure feels correct today) vomits up. Too bad we don't have the technology for you to donate some of your cerebral hemispheres to soldiers who have suffered brain injuries, as it seems you don't care to use what you have.

Don

If that is not a PA, then I don't know what is.

CLICK HERE! new blog posted 9/21/08
CSA #720

[RonD1120 58]

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Foreign opinions are without honor.

right wing conservative christian opinions are without common sense.....

Intentional. Common sense will not lead you to salvation in Christ Jesus.

However, not on topic.

So, despite supposedly being "created" with the unique ability to reason (according to the bible you follow), you turn your back on reason and logic and instead advocate blind acceptance of whatever "truth" the conservative blog-o-sphere (or minister, or whatever authority figure feels correct today) vomits up. Too bad we don't have the technology for you to donate some of your cerebral hemispheres to soldiers who have suffered brain injuries, as it seems you don't care to use what you have.

Don

If that is not a PA, then I don't know what is.

Ah! It is just another example of the Peter Principle.

It is good to see you here. There are of a few of us that post well reasoned, Scripturally correct messages. I tend to be cranky and caustic. We need your input. Hang on, its like being the rear floater on a big-way.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[kallend 1,621]

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It is good to see you here. There are of a few of us that post well reasoned, Scripturally correct messages.

That's an oxymoron if ever I saw one.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[RonD1120 58]

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It is good to see you here. There are of a few of us that post well reasoned, Scripturally correct messages.

That's an oxymoron if ever I saw one.

An yet another example of the Peter Principle.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[jclalor 12]

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Thank you.

Damn, we Tea Party people have to find better examples.

Nah, you should just keep making stuff up.

Since the article in the OP was authored by an ACLU lawyer, which I equate with Liberal, I assumed his position was accurate. Just another example of mistrust in the left. MY bad.

Tea bagging and Obama bashing is discerned from obedience to Glen Beck not from rational intellectual understanding. So, why don't you try Glen, you've tried everything else?