SkyDekker 1,121 #26 October 4, 2010 QuoteThe dropzone is an adult playground. In many places, it's not kid friendly, with lots of sex, drugs, alcohol, and "free spirited" behaviour. We don't have to change to the standard of the most prudish. And if the DZ is stifling, many upjumpers will go to a more fun place. I some how doubt that will stand up as a defence in a sexual harassment lawsuit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,119 #27 October 4, 2010 Yep. The DZ might be an adult playground, but the tandem operation is most definitely a public business, catering to anyone who walks in. Even if they don't jump, the DZ wants them to leave with a positive impression, and send other people there. You can be funny without being inappropriate; TIs should take a hint from the demeanor of their students. One size does not fit all. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VTmotoMike08 0 #28 October 4, 2010 So, aside from not making crude jokes, how do you guys prevent touching them inappropriatly? I always tighten the leg straps myself, then have the student tuck the extra strap under the elastic keepers so that I don't end up touching their groin. For females, I will tell them how to tighten the chest strap, or route it down near their stomach and have them pull it up to their chest and tighten. Any other ideas? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #29 October 4, 2010 DID HE GRAB HER VAGINA ?scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,391 #30 October 4, 2010 >how do you guys prevent touching them inappropriatly? Back when I did tandems I was just very clear about what I was doing. Tandem students aren't dumb; they understand that they're going to have a harness between their legs and across their chest, and they don't want to risk problems with an ill-fitting harness. In my experience tandem students react very differently to exactly the same process depending on how you explain it: "OK Janet I'm going to put this harness on you and adjust it. We want it to be a little snug but not painful; tell me if anything's uncomfortable." "Woo hoo! I guess we're married now!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #31 October 4, 2010 Quote One size does not fit all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #32 October 5, 2010 Quote Quote One size does not fit all. sure it does... just slap it around a little in there :)-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airman1270 0 #33 October 5, 2010 We're losing the definition of the word. "Harassment" suggests a PATTERN of behavior. Doing/saying something once, no matter what, may be rude but it's not harassment. A company should have the right to hire & fire for whatever reason, without having to explain the decision to a judge. I've been in the workforce since 1970, if you count my days delivering Newsday in my Long Island community. I've always treated people with respect. Several years ago we had a 16 year-old girl work a shift at our store. I welcomed her, shook her hand & kissed my own wrist, in a parody of the classic "kiss her hand" greeting, then went about my business. Shortly afterward the night manager called me into the office to tell me that the girl had complained about me, saying I "made her uncomfortable." I learned that they had been trained to react to those words and assume I was guilty. I was stunned, asking what exactly was the problem. I said we should all talk and sort this out. They said "No! You can't talk to her!" I asked why. They couldn't answer, other than to say it was "company policy." It took awhile before I realized what the kid was complaining about in the first place. Unbelievable. If I had kissed HER hand it would have been a gesture of respect, but instead I kissed my own. No boundaries had been crossed. Who trained this kid to say those words in the first place? And why did nobody have the courage to speak some common sense to a brain dead high school cunt? As the conversation went on I told the manager that the way I was being treated amounted to harassment, that I was offended, that this was making me uncomfortable and that by treating me this way she was creating a hostile environment. At this point she didn't know what to do. This spawned a debate among two managers & a former manager, while the stupid kid was oblivious to the trouble she had caused. All because nobody had the guts/common sense to ask her "Why are you uncomfortable? What did he do?," give her a chance to articulate her concern, and explain that I hadn't done anything wrong in the first place and that she was being petty. Nobody gave a crap about my feelings. If their motive was to avoid a lawsuit, slandering a man's reputation was not the way to handle the situation. All of this can be avoided by employing some common sense. Ray M. has the right to fire a TI for any reason or no reason at all. There is no reason for a lawyer to get involved. "Discrimination" laws may be well intended, but they are eroding private property rights and should be reconsidered. Any woman worth her menstrual cycle knows how to deal with unwanted/inappropriate attention w/out whining to a supervisor. Also, the fact that the TI is gay is irrelevant. Cheers, Jon S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #34 October 5, 2010 Given the use of the term "cunt" and reference to "menstrual cycle", you clearly have an unbiased view. You'd get slaughtered by an attorney. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #35 October 5, 2010 The story made it onto Fark.com: http://www.fark.com/ Linked here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1317721/Gay-skydiving-instructor-fired-groping-female-student-strapped-him.html Another good example of choosing your FB pictures wisely (or poorly in this case, as it may be)!--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,119 #36 October 5, 2010 Intent doesn't make groping or inappropriate; groping or words are perfectly capable of being inappropriate on their own. The only thing that gives me a hinky feeling is the statement that he's not been allowed to view any incriminating video. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airman1270 0 #37 October 5, 2010 Quote Given the use of the term "cunt" and reference to "menstrual cycle", you clearly have an unbiased view. You'd get slaughtered by an attorney. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Hee hee. What did I say that isn't true? Of course, you have a point. I can imagine a lawyer trying to convince a carefully hand-picked jury of clueless dolts that, while I hadn't done anything wrong, I deserve to be found "guilty" because I used such words to describe the situation. Cheers, Jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,119 #38 October 5, 2010 QuoteAny woman worth her menstrual cycle knows how to deal with unwanted/inappropriate attention w/out whining to a supervisor. Unless that unwanted attention comes from her supervisor (or TM). Then they can (or maybe can) make the consequences for objecting forcefully disproportionate. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #39 October 5, 2010 Quote>Absolutely there is no way you can fire a contractor for reasons such as >race, creed or religious beliefs and that fits into your "any reason" category. Agreed. But if they do something like sexually assault a woman, excuses like "I'm black" or "I'm gay" don't fly. >Like I said I've been through situations like this dozens of times and in >my opinion it doesn't look good for the DZO. I disagree. The TM admitted to the sexual harassment (he said "we all do it") and he is not an employee; just a contractor. Contractors can be let go for any reason at all, including none. Yes, contractors can be let go for no reason - usually. If there really is a contract in place, and it calls for a specific length of service, then the letting go would need to be in compliance with the other terms of the contract. If the term of the contract is up, or if there is no term, or no contract at all; then there is no other reason needed then "We are done." However, if there is a specific term for which they contracted, then "Because you are gay" or "Because you are black" etc will not wash. For the person who has been thru this dozens of times; what have you been doing to warrant dozens of incidents?" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #40 October 5, 2010 QuoteIntent doesn't make groping or inappropriate; groping or words are perfectly capable of being inappropriate on their own. The only thing that gives me a hinky feeling is the statement that he's not been allowed to view any incriminating video. If a formal discrimination complaint with the EEOC and/or state equivalent agency is filed, or if a lawsuit comes out of it, the video will be subject to mandatory disclosure via the "discovery" process (as long as it doens't magically "disappear"). BTW, there's at least a fairly good chance that his "salty" comments in this thread, now being in the public domain and published, would be admissible into evidence in court, too. If anyone thinks that's impossible, study, for example, the Skyride litigation. We're famous! Attaboy, killer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
banesanura 1 #41 October 5, 2010 I guess I'm going to the wrong dropzone. Any word on where this guy works? Maybe I should pay a visit. I'd like to complain that my TI don't touch me ENOUGH! WTF. Seriously lets get on this shit boys! Best Girl Scout Ever. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #42 October 5, 2010 QuoteGiven the use of the term "cunt" and reference to "menstrual cycle", you clearly have an unbiased view. You'd get slaughtered by an attorney. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Hee hee. What did I say that isn't true? Of course, you have a point. I can imagine a lawyer trying to convince a carefully hand-picked jury of clueless dolts that, while I hadn't done anything wrong, I deserve to be found "guilty" because I used such words to describe the situation. Ah, but you don't define the legal issue, there, Jon, the law does. And, in the context of discrimination law, what he'd be trying to convince them is that what you did - even if you claimed it was totally innocuous - was was wrong because of what your intent was. And then he'd use those words of yours (which are admissible) as evidence of your true intent. And then you'd have to look those dolts in their eyes and explain yourself. ("Well, see... I didn't mean "cunt" in the derogatory sense...") You better hope all those clueless dolts are white men over 65 who have never gone to college. What do you suppose the chances of that are? Hee hee. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #43 October 5, 2010 QuoteThe dropzone is an adult playground. I hate that phrase - I've never seen it used in a constructive way. It's used mostly by assholes to justify themselves being assholes, juvenile or to justify even criminal behavior. It's an oxymoron in that it's an excuse for adults to justify being anything but. I'd rather just talk about behavior in a thread like this and leave the impotent cliches to the newbies waiting to grow up. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #44 October 5, 2010 QuoteThe dropzone is an adult playground. I only use it when explaining the giant slide and heavy duty jungle gym. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #45 October 5, 2010 QuoteQuoteThe dropzone is an adult playground. I only use it when explaining the giant slide and heavy duty jungle gym. This One?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
banesanura 1 #46 October 5, 2010 Ugh. I want a ball pit, because MAYBE just MAYBE, I can stay awake during a fuck session. I gotta no-doze during foreplay or something.Best Girl Scout Ever. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #47 October 5, 2010 Quote Ugh. I want a ball pit, because MAYBE just MAYBE, I can stay awake during a fuck session. I gotta no-doze during foreplay or something. You're doing it wrong.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
banesanura 1 #48 October 5, 2010 Well unlike you, I don't like it in the butt. well maybe if it was like a vibrating butt plug or something. Best Girl Scout Ever. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #49 October 5, 2010 Quote Well unlike you, I don't like it in the butt. well maybe if it was like a vibrating butt plug or something. If that is the only way you can stay awake and involved during foreplay . . . YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG!I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,340 #50 October 5, 2010 Quote Quote Well unlike you, I don't like it in the butt. well maybe if it was like a vibrating butt plug or something. If that is the only way you can stay awake and involved during foreplay . . . YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG! I disagree with this, Turtle. If she can't stay awake during foreplay, then HER PARTNER is doing it wrong. If he can't find the spots that keep her awake and involved then he needs some help. Or she needs a new partner... I would volunteer. (to be the new partner, not help the current, unqualified one)"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
