SkyDekker 1,121 #151 September 23, 2010 QuoteWas a crime prevented? No: the beating was already underway. Yes: a greater crime may have been averted, and the beating was discontinued. Absolutely correct. And I am happy it happened. And a prime example of how guns do not prevent crime. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #152 September 23, 2010 QuoteQuoteWas a crime prevented? No: the beating was already underway. Yes: a greater crime may have been averted, and the beating was discontinued. Absolutely correct. And I am happy it happened. And a prime example of how guns do not prevent crime. Prevent . . . No . . . GREATLY deter, I'm going with more often than not.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
futuredivot 0 #153 September 23, 2010 QuoteAbsolutely correct. And I am happy it happened. And a prime example of how guns do not prevent crime. So, should one of us exercisers of the 2nd sees you getting your shit kicked in, we should reholster and walk away because statistically you don't matter any more. Good to know.You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,121 #154 September 23, 2010 Incorrect. Deter would, by definition, mean crime is not taking place. If you want to use that you would have to specify how guns deter major crimes, but increase lesser crimes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,121 #155 September 23, 2010 QuoteSo, should one of us exercisers of the 2nd sees you getting your shit kicked in, we should reholster and walk away because statistically you don't matter any more. Good to know. And were back to emotion. (and a complete stretch in logical reasoning) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
futuredivot 0 #156 September 23, 2010 QuoteQuoteSo, should one of us exercisers of the 2nd sees you getting your shit kicked in, we should reholster and walk away because statistically you don't matter any more. Good to know. And were back to emotion. (and a complete stretch in logical reasoning) Nope-you're ignoring that assault can become murder, if parsing and misinterpretation is all you got-useless talking to yaYou are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,121 #157 September 23, 2010 Quoteignoring that assault can become murder Both are crimes. So, regardless of your use of your firearm, you have not prevented or detered crime. Thank you for making my point again. Try again, now without the emotion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #158 September 23, 2010 QuoteI am happy it happened. And a prime example of how guns do not prevent crime. The problem with your repetition of this mantra of yours that "guns do not prevent crime", is that it makes it sound like you therefore conclude that guns are useless, and should not be allowed to be carried by citizens. So if you're going to make that statement, don't be alarmed if we point out that it's not the whole story, and that "the rest of the story", as Paul Harvey would say, shows that guns are indeed quite worthwhile in the hands of average citizens, even if it doesn't change a particular crime statistic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #159 September 23, 2010 QuoteDeter would, by definition, mean crime is not taking place. If you want to use that you would have to specify how guns deter major crimes. How many mass shootings have been attempted at police stations? How many in declared gun-free zones like schools? It seems to me that a station house full of armed cops serves as quite a deterrent. And a schoolhouse full of defenseless victims serves as quite an enticement to the deranged. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,121 #160 September 23, 2010 QuoteThe problem with your repetition of this mantra of yours that "guns do not prevent crime", is that it makes it sound like you therefore conclude that guns are useless, and should not be allowed to be carried by citizens. Not at all, carry guns all you want. Just don't claim you are detering or preventing crime. If you want to feel better about it, claim you are helping lessen the severity of crimes. I have stated many times, I could care less of people in the US carry weapons. Quite frankly, I think there should be absolutely no restriction on the type of weapon allowed either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,121 #161 September 23, 2010 QuoteIt seems to me that a station house full of armed cops serves as quite a deterrent. Then prove correlation and causation. otherwise the statement is just as silly as me asking for the number of drive by knifings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #162 September 23, 2010 Quote Quote Absolutely correct. And I am happy it happened. And a prime example of how guns do not prevent crime. So, should one of us exercisers of the 2nd sees you getting your shit kicked in, we should reholster and walk away because statistically you don't matter any more. Good to know. Sorry - I still have too much of "the right thing" ingrained in me to let it go like that. Remember Hurricane Andrew? In Miami, Kendall area, not hit TOO hard, but no power no water and no phone. Had food and water stockpiled, bathtub was full, a firearm in every room for easy access. I'd like to think we were pretty well prepared. So, here is the point: We were minding our own business, eating our dinner and a loud banging comes from the front door. Three men, ( I would mention thier heritage, but it would turn the thread) were trying to break in to our apartment. The door splintered and came partly open. The locks were holding pretty well considering(Wood frame and metal door) they were about to gain entry when I picked up my hand dandy 6 shooter and told them that I would fire through the door if they didn't leave "RIGHT FUCKING NOW!" They hit the door again, I fired a warning shot into the telephone book to my right. They left. In a really big hurry. Did it prevent A crime - no. Did it deter further crime, absolutely. Will it impact their decision making process in the future? Don't know but one can assume that it would. They had hit 3 other apartments in the building, none of the other aprtment residents had firearms, they lost their electronics, jewelry, and cash, the two men that resisted were beaten. One man was cut pretty bad. The other two apartments were elderly and did not put up a fight, they simply watched thier valuables walk out of their home. We started standing watch and doing small patrols with the rets of the neighbors after that. No one in our complex had any other problems after that.So yes. Firearms do prevent, if not at least deter crime if used correctly. Who here would look me in the eye and honestly tell me that they would have disallowed me my right to bear arms.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,121 #163 September 23, 2010 QuoteDid it prevent A crime - no. QuoteSo yes. Firearms do prevent, if not at least deter crime if used correctly. You're trying to suck and blow at the same time. (by the way it also didn't deter crime, just caused a crime to fall under a different heading) Nice story though, happy you kept your family safe. Last major black out I went through, all the neighbours sat outside and had a giant BBQ. No guns were needed and nothing was stolen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #164 September 23, 2010 BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA Too many people living in nambi-pambi land as Gunny Hartman would say Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #165 September 23, 2010 QuoteQuoteDid it prevent A crime - no. QuoteSo yes. Firearms do prevent, if not at least deter crime if used correctly. You're trying to suck and blow at the same time. (by the way it also didn't deter crime, just caused a crime to fall under a different heading) Nice story though, happy you kept your family safe. Last major black out I went through, all the neighbours sat outside and had a giant BBQ. No guns were needed and nothing was stolen. We did that too - but it was still raining when the breakins were happening. To the point - you believe that us having firearms and walking a patrol did nothing to deter the criminals from coming back and commiting more breakins in our complex?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,121 #166 September 23, 2010 QuoteTo the point - you believe that us having firearms and walking a patrol did nothing to deter the criminals from coming back and commiting more breakins in our complex? No, I am sure it did. Do you believe you scared them into being law abiding citizens and they did not go and commit crime somewhere else? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #167 September 23, 2010 QuoteToo many people living in nambi-pambi land as Gunny Hartman would say How'd that level of overblown bullying work out for him?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #168 September 23, 2010 Quote Quote Too many people living in nambi-pambi land as Gunny Hartman would say How'd that level of overblown bullying work out for him? I just find it funny that so many people who supposedly were to subjected to DI's like him.. get all butt hurt so easily Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #169 September 23, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Too many people living in nambi-pambi land as Gunny Hartman would say How'd that level of overblown bullying work out for him? I just find it funny that so many people who supposedly were to subjected to DI's like him.. get all butt hurt so easily Really? Doesn't surprise me in the least. In the military you HAVE to stand there and take it. Once you're out, seems logical you wouldn't take it from anybody you weren't forced to.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #170 September 23, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote Too many people living in nambi-pambi land as Gunny Hartman would say How'd that level of overblown bullying work out for him? I just find it funny that so many people who supposedly were to subjected to DI's like him.. get all butt hurt so easily Really? Doesn't surprise me in the least. In the military you HAVE to stand there and take it. Once you're out, seems logical you wouldn't take it from anybody you weren't forced to. Yeah but the amount of cheese needed... is funny to go with all of that.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #171 September 23, 2010 QuoteQuoteTo the point - you believe that us having firearms and walking a patrol did nothing to deter the criminals from coming back and commiting more breakins in our complex? No, I am sure it did. Do you believe you scared them into being law abiding citizens and they did not go and commit crime somewhere else? Possibly. Probably not. But it deterred crime in the range of my firearm. Everything has limits.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #172 September 23, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote Too many people living in nambi-pambi land as Gunny Hartman would say How'd that level of overblown bullying work out for him? I just find it funny that so many people who supposedly were to subjected to DI's like him.. get all butt hurt so easily Really? Doesn't surprise me in the least. In the military you HAVE to stand there and take it. Once you're out, seems logical you wouldn't take it from anybody you weren't forced to. It sure is getting cold around here today.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #173 September 23, 2010 QuoteQuoteTo the point - you believe that us having firearms and walking a patrol did nothing to deter the criminals from coming back and commiting more breakins in our complex? No, I am sure it did. Do you believe you scared them into being law abiding citizens and they did not go and commit crime somewhere else? so what is your point? should we all be victims so that some stranger elsewhere doesn't get attacked? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #174 September 23, 2010 QuoteIt sure is getting cold around here today. You say that like previously I haven't understood where some people come from. That's not the case at all. However, their unwillingness to listen to a different opinion does have a tendency to block communication. It stifles real discussion. We're all damaged a bit from the lives we've lead. I'll readily admit that. Not everybody will.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #175 September 23, 2010 Quote Quote It sure is getting cold around here today. You say that like previously I haven't understood where some people come from. That's not the case at all. However, their unwillingness to listen to a different opinion does have a tendency to block communication. It stifles real discussion. We're all damaged a bit from the lives we've lead. I'll readily admit that. Not everybody will. No, I say that like hell froze over and we agreed on something.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
