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nigel99

Prof Hawkins views

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This morning on the radio they were discussing Prof Hawkins views that physics and biology have advanced to the point where both religion and philosophy are redundant. In my view he is being narrow minded and rather elitist.

Firstly - many people NEED religion to keep them sane and functioning as individuals. As my dad put it they simply aren't emotionally strong enough to contemplate the alternatives.

Secondly - philosophy addresses things such as what is conciousness and some of the more nuanced side of our existence.
Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

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This morning on the radio they were discussing Prof Hawkins views that physics and biology have advanced to the point where both religion and philosophy are redundant. In my view he is being narrow minded and rather elitist.



How so? I mean, I guess it's fine for you to bandy about the word "elitist" in an attempt to knock him down a peg, but how can you really support that position with your following statements?

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Firstly - many people NEED religion to keep them sane and functioning as individuals. As my dad put it they simply aren't emotionally strong enough to contemplate the alternatives.

Secondly - philosophy addresses things such as what is conciousness and some of the more nuanced side of our existence.



In the first case, that's not his problem, that's the problem of those that, as you and your father have suggested "need" it as a crutch. You've come to the same conclusion he has, that religion itself isn't supported, but somehow feel it's ok as long as it's a useful crutch for people that can't cope with reality. So really, he's no more "elitist" than yourself.

In your second point you speak of a "nuanced side of our existence" but offer no examples. If a person doesn't believe in ghosts, demons, ufos, thetans, angels, what-have-you, then why even attempt to address something as vague as "consciousness" or what some people might call the "soul"? Why NOT look at it as just another collection of chemical reactions that have evolved for the purposes of survival and procreation?

Too clinical? Maybe, but, how exactly is that elitist? In fact, it's the exact opposite. It means we're not all "god's gift to the world", but simply another organism.

To me, the basis of EVERY religion is elitist. Every single one of them places themselves above all other "non-believers" on the planet. Even the crummy little goat brained stupid ones that worship a ham sandwich believe they're the ONLY truly moral people in the entire universe and "God's chosen people." That's pretty elitist right there.

How about this . . . we're all just meatbags . . . a collection of chemical reactions that have evolved well enough for the purposes of surviving long enough to boff a member of the opposite sex, have a few babies, maybe build a nice home, but that's really about it. There's no grand plan, no afterlife for the "special snowflakes."

Oh . . . wait . . . now I see the problem . . . religious people WANT to feel special. Seems pretty elitist to me.
quade -
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Steven Hawking is anover rated physicist, who really doesnt have a clue about anything. What a first class jerk !!!

How he bluffed his way into making people everywhere think he is some kind of know it all, is the stuff hollywood films are made of.

He can'd really do anything, so he likes to stir the pot.




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>Steven Hawking is anover rated physicist, who really doesnt have a
>clue about anything. What a first class jerk ! He can'd really do anything . . .

Exactly. I mean, what's he done? Discovered Hawking Radiation and the theory of quantum gravity. Wrote a bestselling book. Won the Eddington Medal, the Albert Einstein Medal, the Franklin Medal, the Wolf Prize in Physics and the Presidential Medal of Freedom. All while completely paralyzed. Anyone could do that.

Now, if he had predicted that the world would end in 2007, then he'd really have accomplished something.

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I mean elitist in the sense that taking the viewpoint that his area of science explains the meaning of life, conciousness etc.

I don't need or want religion - my point is that many people depend on their belief structures to get through their day. Exploring whether religious dependence is the "correct" approach is not something that falls under physics and micro-biology - but quite probably falls under philosophy.

Examples - I don't know emotions might be a good start, codes of ethics another. Definition of philosophy is "Philosophy is the study of general and fundamental problems concerning matters such as existence, knowledge, values, reason, mind, and language" (from Wikipedia). I don't see how advances in physics have solved all of those areas.
Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

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>Definition of philosophy is "Philosophy is the study of general and
>fundamental problems concerning matters such as existence, knowledge,
>values, reason, mind, and language" (from Wikipedia). I don't see how
>advances in physics have solved all of those areas.

They certainly haven't - but have also unquestionably contributed to them. The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, top-down cosmology and the many-worlds interpretation all have had significant influence on philosophy.

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Steven Hawking is anover rated physicist, who really doesnt have a clue about anything. What a first class jerk !!!

How he bluffed his way into making people everywhere think he is some kind of know it all, is the stuff hollywood films are made of.

He can'd really do anything, so he likes to stir the pot.




Didn't I see you in the movie, "Idiocracy" ?
Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossilbe before they were done.
Louis D Brandeis

Where are we going and why are we in this basket?

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This morning on the radio they were discussing Prof Hawkins views that physics and biology have advanced to the point where both religion and philosophy are redundant. In my view he is being narrow minded and rather elitist.

Firstly - many people NEED religion to keep them sane and functioning as individuals. As my dad put it they simply aren't emotionally strong enough to contemplate the alternatives.

Secondly - philosophy addresses things such as what is conciousness and some of the more nuanced side of our existence.



I found it interesting how he backs up his claim that God is now unnecessary based on an untestable speculation of the M-Theory and by an unattainable Theory of Everything. And rationalized it by "well, because, there are to many variables and conditions that change things, it is impossible for one set of physical laws to be applicable to every situation," or some such crap. Sounds to me that the holy grail of science has some mighty big holes that are only plugged with a lot of blind faith mixed with a lot of arrogance(elitism).

http://www.math.columbia.edu/~woit/wordpress/?p=3141


...

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I found it interesting how he backs up his claim that God is now unnecessary based ...

Why is this a bad thing? The point about God is that it requires faith. Faith means lack of proof. You have to be strong enough to choose to believe.

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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Sounds to me that the holy grail of science has some mighty big holes that are only plugged with a lot of blind faith mixed with a lot of arrogance(elitism).



No, the holes in science are generally plugged by the scientific method.
There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

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Steven Hawking is anover rated physicist, who really doesnt have a clue about anything. What a first class jerk !!!

How he bluffed his way into making people everywhere think he is some kind of know it all, is the stuff hollywood films are made of.

He can'd really do anything, so he likes to stir the pot.



Isn't repeatedly predicting the end of the world, or at least the country I live in, another example of stirring the pot?

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This morning on the radio they were discussing Prof Hawkins views that physics and biology have advanced to the point where both religion and philosophy are redundant. In my view he is being narrow minded and rather elitist.

Firstly - many people NEED religion to keep them sane and functioning as individuals. As my dad put it they simply aren't emotionally strong enough to contemplate the alternatives.

Secondly - philosophy addresses things such as what is conciousness and some of the more nuanced side of our existence.



Basically he is saying, don't believe in God, believe in me.

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Didn't I see you in the movie, "Idiocracy" ?



That sounds like a personal attack to me.



It was not meant as a personal attack. I was just wondering if the members of the Flat Earth Society had a sense of humor. :)
Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossilbe before they were done.
Louis D Brandeis

Where are we going and why are we in this basket?

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Now, if he had predicted that the world would end in 2007, then he'd really have accomplished something.



You didn't get the memo? It's been moved up to 12/21/2012.


The Annual End Of The World prediction. :D

The Jehovahs Witnesses own this one. They've been doing it for nearly a 100 years.
:D

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