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grimmie

Burn the Quran!

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You disagree with the statement that "No matter what we do - it may or may not end in the death of a soldier."



Your statement is not correct related to the Koran burning issue we were discussing.



OK - so let me put it this way. It doesn't matter whether Jones burns the Koran or not, any action or non action will not be directly responsible for the death of a soldier.
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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If I'm at a large indoor event and yell, "There's a bomb! Fire!" and the crowd panics and 20 people die in the stampede, will I get charged with a crime?

If some of our troops get killed as a direct result of this action, will the pastor be charged with a crime?


oldiers will die..

If we don't allow Sheria Law, soldiers will die...

Etc....

Bullshit, it is harmeless protest, they are burning american flags alreaddy and sreaming death to America...and nothing has happened yet!
If we don't allow them to hide thier faces on airplanes, S

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OK - so let me put it this way. It doesn't matter whether Jones burns the Koran or not, any action or non action will not be directly responsible for the death of a soldier.



General Patreus doesn't appear to be agreeing with your statement. He is afraid burning the Koran would be directly reponsible for the death of a or multiple soldier.

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OK - so let me put it this way. It doesn't matter whether Jones burns the Koran or not, any action or non action will not be directly responsible for the death of a soldier.



General Patreus doesn't appear to be agreeing with your statement. He is afraid burning the Koran would be directly reponsible for the death of a or multiple soldier.



How is that Koran going to pull a trigger? How is a bunch of ashes going to float all the way over to Afganistan and ignite an IED? How is the wind going to blow some carbon residue over seas and allow that carbon to push the plunger on a suicide bombers rig?
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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If some of our troops get killed as a direct result of this action, will the pastor be charged with a crime?



If citizens die at the hands of criminals because they are unable to be armed to defend themselves due to gun-grabbing liberal laws, will those liberal law-makers be charged with a crime?

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General Patreus doesn't appear to be agreeing with your statement. He is afraid burning the Koran would be directly reponsible for the death of a or multiple soldier.



then he's wrong when he says 'directly'.

the person that pulls the trigger is directly responsible - and it's their responsibility also if they allow some random action somewhere remote to even be considered as an unreasonable justification for their actions

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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If he was forced to not burn the koran . . . it would be much much worse.



That's a completely different statement.

(you must have a horrible case of ADD, cause every statement you make is off in a new direction)



Maybe you just don't understand the intellectual argument he's making.

He's saying that if the government can deny the citizenry the right to free speech, then that is a far worse thing than just having some people upset about a person exercising their free speech in a tasteless manner.

Doh! Try thinking more, and insulting less.

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Dekker and some others seem to think a butterfly flapping its wings in Africa is DIRECTLY responsible for a hurricane hitting Florida.



Actions have consequences. General Patreus understands that. Apparently many here do not.

In light of the logic displayed by you, turtle and others I have to ask: exactly how is Islam responsible for 9/11? Wouldn't only the hijackers be responsible according to the logic being displayed here?

How did Islam fly a plane?

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Dekker and some others seem to think a butterfly flapping its wings in Africa is DIRECTLY responsible for a hurricane hitting Florida.




no - everybody pretty much agrees that the law should be followed but these people are assholes for doing what they are saying.

the rest of these postings seems to be a bunch posters trying to win the "who's a bigger hypocrit" argument based on which side of the political spectrum they are on (even though they agree with the basic concepts and opinions) and which extrapolations and stereotypes they can leverage based on what's acceptable bigotry under their own political leanings

it's actually funny, but I can't have popcorn this week, so it's funny, but not sating.

the whole thing would be a non-issue if the liberal press would have just ignored the asshole and his teeny tiny congregation as the non-news that he really is

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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In this case the right to burn the Koran may well have the price of an American or Canadian soldier.


It is just as likely that not burning it would have worse consequenses.


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Being forced to not burn the koran is only one way of not burning the koran.



A highly publicized Qur'an burning is pretty likely to result in peaked-up violence. If it's just as likely that not burning it would have worse consequences, and the likelihood of this guy being forced by law not to burn the text is pretty much zero (at least not in any way that would be held up by the courts), does that mean you think him not burning the Qur'an by choice will have worse consequences?

I guess it might depend on what he says in regards to why he decided against burning it. This raises an interesting question. Can this guy say anything that would be condescending and/or derogatory enough about Islam in regards to why he refrained such that it incites more violence from extremists than the actual burning act itself would have? Could he blow off his steam just as effectively with such a statement?

As an aside, does anyone really want Sept 11 to become "world-wide religious and cultural intolerance day"? How is that not more offensive to the 9/11 victims' families than a mosque / community center in lower Manhattan?

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Dekker and some others seem to think a butterfly flapping its wings in Africa is DIRECTLY responsible for a hurricane hitting Florida.



Actions have consequences. General Patreus understands that. Apparently many here do not.

In light of the logic displayed by you, turtle and others I have to ask: exactly how is Islam responsible for 9/11? Wouldn't only the hijackers be responsible according to the logic being displayed here?

How did Islam fly a plane?



Still having issues with "directly" are you? I guess putting it in all caps wasn't enough.

Please pay attention to the word DIRECTLY.

And what are you talking about with the Islam and plane isues. How is that relevant here? We are talking about a fuckwit in Florida doing something stupid. A religion doesn't do things. It is a collection of books and ideas and (at the expense of pissing people off) superstitions. You can say radical wahabis were resposible for 9-11. You can say terrorists were responsible for 9-11. You can say the financiers were responsible for 9-11. You can say certain governments were responsible for 9-11. You can say a bunch of sociopaths preaching a perverted version of Islam were responsible for 9-11. You can't say Islam was responsible.

But again, in this case, talking about fuckwit in Florida, you don't really expect someone to think his burning books will be DIRECTLY responsible for soldiers dying, do you? GEN petraeus doesn't think so either. He recognizes that the fuckits actions will piss off people and provide propaganda for radicals. But those people are responsible for their actions, not the fuckwit.

Is he a fuckwit? I think we all agree he is. Should he be allowed to do this? Anyone who respects individual rights thinks he should. Should the government attempt to stop him or disuade him? That depends on what role you want government to play, but me, I don't want the government to take steps to stop him. If they are asked, ok, let's be realistic, when a person in government is asked, I would expect them to say they are disgusted, they disapprove, they think it is wrong. But they shouldn't try to talk him out of it. Remember the old soldier's quote: "I disagree with you and hate everything you say, but I'll fight to the death to protect your right to say it."

I'll ask again, since there hasn't been an answer. If you think fuckwit should be held responsible for the violence of radicals, should the media that reports and broadcasts it be responsible too?
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Our General should have commented saying...that due to the fact that Muslims are not capable of tolerating ridicule, criticism, or hostility directed toward them, as every other religion is able to tolerate without making death threats, that he really wishes that the pastor would not call off the burning and apologize.

That would be the simple truth. The dumbass pastor is causing a threat to our military because of Muslim hyper-sensitivity.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

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>Pastor Jones' goal should be to win people to his faith. How does this help his cause?

Oh, I bet there are plenty of bigots across the US who will support him 100%.



I wish we could get all of them together... put them on C-17's and let them out for their Quran roast in downtown KANDAHAR

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If you think fuckwit should be held responsible for the violence of radicals, should the media that reports and broadcasts it be responsible too?



I don't think they should be held responsible. I do think both parties would have some responsibility towards the outcome.

I'll forego a semantics argument on directly. The end result is some one could die as a result of the Koran burning, the media reporting on it and some extremist acting on his emotions.

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If I'm at a large indoor event and yell, "There's a bomb! Fire!" and the crowd panics and 20 people die in the stampede, will I get charged with a crime?



That is a really, really crappy analogy. Billvon might be proud to have proposed that worthless bit of comparison.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

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>Pastor Jones' goal should be to win people to his faith. How does this help his cause?

Oh, I bet there are plenty of bigots across the US who will support him 100%.



Not only in the US. Few years ago, that *false prophet* had his fans in my own hometown - we made our own experience with him, look here:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,716409,00.html

dudeist skydiver # 3105

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My point exactly.

We have no issues with churches, why the sudden outrage with one?
We have had no issues with mosques, why the sudden outrage with one?
We have lots of issues with muslim extremists, why not with christian extremists?



Here Here!



But we do have issues with mosques. A significant number have been shown to be part of an Islamofacist underground in the US. I understand that many do not want to acknowledge that.

But we do have issues with Christian extremists. When they break laws, such as abortion center bombings, they are quite vigorously prosecuted.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

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>But we do have issues with mosques. A significant number have been
>shown to be part of an Islamofacist underground in the US. I understand
>that many do not want to acknowledge that.

Correct, just as we have problems with Christian priests molesting young children. Most people are smart enough not to blame all Christians for the actions of their leaders.

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As stated in the other thread....

Jones Interview

Jones is a Extremist Christian, who clearly does not understand the true teachings of Christianity. He is not only pissing off the Extremist Islamic groups, but he is also ticking off many people of various religions as well as US Citizens (religious or not).

I understand the point he is trying to get across about enough being enough, but the fact of the matter is he is going about it the wrong way and putting a lot of people at unnecessary risk.
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>Pastor Jones' goal should be to win people to his faith. How does this help his cause?

Oh, I bet there are plenty of bigots across the US who will support him 100%.



I wish we could get all of them together... put them on C-17's and let them out for their Quran roast in downtown KANDAHAR


Sounds like a great plan!!!! While they are having the Quran roast, we can place snipers around the area with .50 cals and pick off the radicals as they are funneled into the kill zone:ph34r:!!!

Like baiting a trap!!!:)
"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
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