sabrepilot25 0 #1 September 4, 2010 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10509127 So we as taxpayers are paying a ridiculous fund for this old homophobic twat to come and preach his idiotic beliefs, meanwhile the national health system is drastically in need of funds, and our troops are fighting in the highly counter productive war on terror with inadequate body armor (no taking thousands of innocent muslim lives does not decrease the threat of islamic terrorism). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #2 September 4, 2010 F.T.P If 'they' want him here, let the Rich Catholic church pay the FULL amount. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sabrepilot25 0 #3 September 4, 2010 +1, but i guess they need their own money for funding the luxurious lifestyles of the vatican priests. I wonder if Jesus would have approved of their rich (material) way of living. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #4 September 4, 2010 Quote If 'they' want him here, let the Rich Catholic church pay the FULL amount. +1When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ian84 0 #5 September 4, 2010 I won't dispute that there are pressing demands on public funds. However, as a visiting head of state (which is what I believe he is treated as), should he not receive the same security provision as any other head of state? There is a pretty good track record of attempts on his and other Popes' lives so I think such a provision is prudent. I think we provide security to plenty of more dubious leaders so picking on the Pope because of his role as the head of the Catholic Church seems a little vindictive. I say all this as an atheist by the way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 186 #6 September 4, 2010 QuoteF.T.P If 'they' want him here, let the Rich Catholic church pay the FULL amount. They need to save their money to pay settlements for their clergy having a penchant for an activity, the mention of which is banned on this site. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #7 September 4, 2010 I looked at the article to see whether the Pope invited himself, or was invited. Turns out he as invited by your Queen. Now, given that the UK is a constitutional monarchy, if the invitation was in the name of the Queen but at the behest of the elected Government, that's one thing. But if the Queen extended that invitation on her own (even if she got the PM to sign-off on it), that's a bit of another. The Queen's personal wealth is estimated at around $650 million US, which converts to roughly £422 million GBP. Can't she pay the tab? A drop in the old bucket, eh, wot? ============ Separate interesting point: The article says: QuoteThe visit has, however, caused controversy in the UK because of the cost and the scandal surrounding child abuse within the Catholic Church. At a news conference on Monday, Archbishop of Westminster Vincent Nichols said it should be up to the Vatican to decide whether the Pope should meet some of those who had suffered abuse at the hands of Catholic clergy. "It's easy for people to call for some great public gesture, such as meeting victims, but that in itself is a very difficult process for someone who has suffered abuse," he said. "And we must not use those who have suffered abuse for some kind of public agenda. You have to give these guys (the Vatican) props for sheer gall. In other words, if The Pope chooses not to meet with abuse victims, it's because he doesn't want it to be too difficult for the victims. And they wonder why their non-lapsed membership is declining. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #8 September 4, 2010 Yeah, but money is tight at the moment, so why waste it? It's not like he's going to do or say anything remotely useful. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #9 September 4, 2010 QuoteI won't dispute that there are pressing demands on public funds. However, as a visiting head of state (which is what I believe he is treated as), should he not receive the same security provision as any other head of state? There is a pretty good track record of attempts on his and other Popes' lives so I think such a provision is prudent. I think we provide security to plenty of more dubious leaders so picking on the Pope because of his role as the head of the Catholic Church seems a little vindictive. I say all this as an atheist by the way. From the article "The cost to taxpayers of the Pope's visit to Britain could rise to £12m - up to £4m higher than previous figures, the government has said. That bill for the September trip does not include policing costs for the government, Lord Patten said."Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #10 September 4, 2010 Quote as a visiting head of state (which is what I believe he is treated as), should he not receive the same security provision as any other head of state? Actually to be fair when you put like that you make a compelling argument.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ian84 0 #11 September 4, 2010 QuoteYeah, but money is tight at the moment, so why waste it? It's not like he's going to do or say anything remotely useful. But that argument can be made for all sorts of things. Personally I don't think £8m (or £12m as Jakee's post seems to suggest) is worth the snub, or indeed the very real security risk. Can you imagine the embarrassment for the country if he were injured or killed on our watch? You should also remember that he holds significant sway over Catholics in the UK, who make up a fairly sizeable proportion of the population. That in itself makes him a diplomat of some significance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #12 September 4, 2010 I see your point, I just don't happen to agree with it , sorry mate. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remibond 0 #13 September 4, 2010 QuoteQuote as a visiting head of state (which is what I believe he is treated as), should he not receive the same security provision as any other head of state? Actually to be fair when you put like that you make a compelling argument. Ditto, I was against it at first but when you look at it from that perspective... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #14 September 4, 2010 Quoteas a visiting head of state (which is what I believe he is treated as), should he not receive the same security provision as any other head of state? No. Although it's by a 1929 international treaty (recognizing Vatican City as a sovereign state), it's a modern-day joke that the Pope is accorded head of state status. He's essentially the mayor of a small town of about 110 acres, with about 800 residents, about 500 of whom are classified as citizens. Put another way, he's like the dean of a small college-sized church campus. He travels to spread the message of a single religion, and to buck-up its troops, as it were. Let the Church foot the bill for his security. Unlike others, I do not find your point compelling. "Avoidance of embarrassment" is a flimsy excuse to spend that kind of badly-needed taxpayer money on a special interest group's public relations campaign. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #15 September 4, 2010 QuoteQuote If 'they' want him here, let the Rich Catholic church pay the FULL amount. +1 + billions of dollars Their useless indugences should be able to pay for it all...It sickens me that every year my family gives these crooks money for a mass that's supposed to get my dead grandmother closer to heaven... I mean c'mon...our belifs are hard enough to swallow without the Catholic World Theocracy adding their mumbo Jumbo to it all... Thank God Catholocism is a religion based on ignorance of their own beliefs...it means real Catholoics can still be true brothers!Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #16 September 4, 2010 My Nan was the same ... she wouldn't hear a bad word against the Roman Catholic bank I mean church. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #17 September 4, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuote If 'they' want him here, let the Rich Catholic church pay the FULL amount. +1 + billions of dollars Their useless indugences should be able to pay for it all...It sickens me that every year my family gives these crooks money for a mass that's supposed to get my dead grandmother closer to heaven... I mean c'mon...our belifs are hard enough to swallow without the Catholic World Theocracy adding their mumbo Jumbo to it all... Thank God Catholocism is a religion based on ignorance of their own beliefs...it means real Catholoics can still be true brothers! I've met a few Roman Catholics that were actually Christians. That is they read the Holy Bible all by themselves and pray in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. They attend RC Mass out of tradition, good folks.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #18 September 4, 2010 QuoteQuoteYeah, but money is tight at the moment, so why waste it? It's not like he's going to do or say anything remotely useful. But that argument can be made for all sorts of things. Personally I don't think £8m (or £12m as Jakee's post seems to suggest) is worth the snub, or indeed the very real security risk. Can you imagine the embarrassment for the country if he were injured or killed on our watch? You should also remember that he holds significant sway over Catholics in the UK, who make up a fairly sizeable proportion of the population. That in itself makes him a diplomat of some significance. If it is so important for the Pope to be there, let the Pope pay his own way. It's not like he can't afford it.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #19 September 4, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote If 'they' want him here, let the Rich Catholic church pay the FULL amount. +1 + billions of dollars Their useless indugences should be able to pay for it all...It sickens me that every year my family gives these crooks money for a mass that's supposed to get my dead grandmother closer to heaven... I mean c'mon...our belifs are hard enough to swallow without the Catholic World Theocracy adding their mumbo Jumbo to it all... Thank God Catholocism is a religion based on ignorance of their own beliefs...it means real Catholoics can still be true brothers! I've met a few Roman Catholics that were actually Christians. That is they read the Holy Bible all by themselves and pray in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. They attend RC Mass out of tradition, good folks. I find it interesting that most of the evangelical/protestant churches I've visited had a majority of their congregation consisting of those who were former Catholics...Even more interesting is that the pastors of these churches say the the former Catholics in their congregation are the most fruitfull...I believe it's because of an appreciation of finally understanding that which has been hidden by the Catholic athorities for all those years...especially the Latin years... I think the best thing the Catholic Church could do is change the Mass to preaching and teaching an understanding of the Bible similar to that of Bishop Fulton J. Sheen.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #20 September 5, 2010 QuoteQuoteas a visiting head of state (which is what I believe he is treated as), should he not receive the same security provision as any other head of state? No. Although it's by a 1929 international treaty (recognizing Vatican City as a sovereign state), it's a modern-day joke that the Pope is accorded head of state status. He's essentially the mayor of a small town of about 110 acres, with about 800 residents, about 500 of whom are classified as citizens. Put another way, he's like the dean of a small college-sized church campus. please. The Pope is the most significant religious leader on the planet, represents the largest of the Christian sects, with over a billion members. To ignore its history in Europe over the past 2000 years is also silly. Economically, it's probably foolish to complain about this expense, as it should generate a considerable amount of tourist activity. The pope certainly is worth more than a visit from the American President, for example. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,382 #21 September 5, 2010 Quote If 'they' want him here, let the Rich Catholic church pay the FULL amount. Maybe there is another way to look at this; How much would the UK need to pay him not to come?"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #22 September 5, 2010 QuoteThe Pope is the most significant religious leader on the planet, represents the largest of the Christian sects, with over a billion members. To ignore its history in Europe over the past 2000 years is also silly. This BS is why they continue to have so much power and influence...This system needs to be crushed once and for all. Though I belive in many unbelivable things...I can destroy anybody who dares to debate the legitamacy of the Catholic reign. I'm so infuriated with these authorities that i contemplate daily about infiltrating their system for the soul pupose of destroying it. This system is the epitomy of evil... I know, cause I was there....I've seen it. There is no God here....just money, power, greed, pride and control. I would give my life to free the world from this deception.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #23 September 5, 2010 Quote How much would the UK need to pay him not to come? Oh...I'm sure he would be willing to work out a deal...How about a 1,000,000 souls...Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #24 September 5, 2010 QuoteQuoteThe Pope is the most significant religious leader on the planet, represents the largest of the Christian sects, with over a billion members. To ignore its history in Europe over the past 2000 years is also silly. This BS is why they continue to have so much power and influence...This system needs to be crushed once and for all. So no freedom to choose your religion in your ideal world, eh? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #25 September 5, 2010 Quote Quote Quote The Pope is the most significant religious leader on the planet, represents the largest of the Christian sects, with over a billion members. To ignore its history in Europe over the past 2000 years is also silly. This BS is why they continue to have so much power and influence...This system needs to be crushed once and for all. So no freedom to choose your religion in your ideal world, eh? Hardly anyone every chooses to be Catholic...Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
