I'm becoming an atheist

[RALFFERS 0]

After years of believing in God (as a kid I had a general belief in God), & then becoming a devout Evangelical Cristian 10 years ago, at the age of 19 - and yet now I find myself steadily becoming an atheist. There are things I just can't blindly accept anymore - hell & the eternal torment that comes with it for starters. The doctrine of pre-destined 'election' would be another. I also think that God is for those who can't explain why certain things happen in their lives; while others need a sense of purpose. All these things are fine - I just can't do it anymore though. If you want something out of life, than it's your responsibility to go out & get it! This is all kinda' weird & new to me still; hell, I've even had a few discussions/debates as to why should one believe in God.

My only issue is explaining my newfound position to my friends & family; without fail I will get the "you changed your mind again?..." thing (I've been struggling with belief on & for a while - but this feels like the final nail in the coffin). Strangely enough, the people I know at church are good people, with whom I have developed friendships over years; so I don't want to lose contact with them, somehow though I think that is inevitable

The only funny thing is my mom keeps rambling on about how God is going to punish me, just like he did years ago... Well, I call bullshit.

I do have one question though - as atheists, have you ever wondered the 'what if... after death? Stupid I know, but valid nevertheless, since none of us have ever been there. Fuck if I know, but I don't really care anymore either. Feels refreshing.

Dialogue/commentary between Divot, Twardo & myself -

"from your first Oshkosh when the three of us were riding to or from one of

[quade 3]

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I do have one question though - as atheists, have you ever wondered the 'what if... after death?

I look at that question the same way I looked at the following question when I was about seven, "What if there really is a Santa Claus?" Once you finally come to the conclusion there is no Santa Claus, then the "what if" question is moot.

If you feel like the entire process is getting a bit heavy you might want to check out Letting Go of God.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[RALFFERS 0]

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"Revelation is John on acid"

LMFAO!

Oh, & good point with the Santa Claus example.

edited: to add quotation marks. Yes, I'm that much of a perfectionist.

Dialogue/commentary between Divot, Twardo & myself -

"from your first Oshkosh when the three of us were riding to or from one of

[RonD1120 58]

Good for you. Show them who is boss. God doesn't love you. Love is a figment of the imagination. Have you ever received a blessing or unmerited favor? Jesus said you need to be hot or cold but, if you are lukewarm He'll spit you out of his mouth. Take a stand, damn't. Becoming an atheist is like becoming pregnant. You either are or you aren't.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RALFFERS 0]

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Good for you. Show them who is boss. God doesn't love you. Love is a figment of the imagination. Have you ever received a blessing or unmerited favor? Jesus said you need to be hot or cold but, if you are lukewarm He'll spit you out of his mouth. Take a stand, damn't. Becoming an atheist is like becoming pregnant. You either are or you aren't.

Your post seems paradoxical, seeing that you have a Christian Skydivers Association logo as your avatar. I'm confused.

Dialogue/commentary between Divot, Twardo & myself -

"from your first Oshkosh when the three of us were riding to or from one of

[Andy9o8 0]

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Good for you. Show them who is boss. God doesn't love you. Love is a figment of the imagination. Have you ever received a blessing or unmerited favor? Jesus said you need to be hot or cold but, if you are lukewarm He'll spit you out of his mouth. Take a stand, damn't. Becoming an atheist is like becoming pregnant. You either are or you aren't.

Given that your religious faith, I understand why you disagree with him. What I don't understand is why you use the device of mockery and sarcastic scorn to express it to him. I know that you and the other very religious folks resent it when you/they are mocked disrespectfully about their beliefs. Are you trying to spiritually wake him up by using the device of shaming him? I doubt that it will work; in fact, I'd predict it will have the opposite effect. In other words, if you're trying to harden his heart by making him resent the judgmental abuse, that's a good way to go about it.

I respectfully urge you to reflect, and then change your approach to him.

[gjhdiver 0]

Well done. You're becoming more evolved.

Let the frightened cling to their gods and monsters, there's nothing that can hurt you, now or after death.

The superstitious will whine a lot and promise great retribution, but they have no more idea of what's out there then you do. In fact, they have a lot less, because a lot of them are resistant to the undending march of Science.

(However, it is hilarious to listen to them when they try to claim the earth is 6000 years old and such).

Let 'em complain. They live their life in fear of a delusion. You're now free to live your life as a human being, free of fear and superstition.

[RonD1120 58]

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Your post seems paradoxical, seeing that you have a Christian Skydivers Association logo as your avatar. I'm confused.

I agree.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[beowulf 1]

I have been in your shoes. I found that many religous people are very offended by the thought that anyone doesn't believe in god. The whole turning the other cheek or love thy neighbor quickly goes out the window.

[mutumbo 0]

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I also think that God is for those who can't explain why certain things happen in their lives; while others need a sense of purpose.

couldn't agree more!!

But as far as loosing contact with close friends over something as stupid as differing religions is just plain dumb. Not many believe the way i do, but trust me I still have plenty of friends(many of them DEVOUT and i do me DEVOUT christians), and we get into loads of spirited debates, all in good fun, since none of it can be PROVED, it never ends, hell my girlfriend dosent even believe the same as I do. does it matter? nope. why? because something so trivial as a belief in a differing religion is nothing to throw an entire friendship and in this case, relationship away for.

As far as changing your mind, hell i think i change mine more times than anything i can think of. whats it matter, you gotta go with what works for YOU at the moment you need it.

And finally as per the death thing, youre not alone, tust me, i think of death almost every day of my life (long story, lost a "few" friends over the years), wondering what happens after you die, does it actually hurt? is there a heaven? a hell? or do you just kinda fall asleep, never to wake up, like anesthesia without the waking up part, you dont know your not awake, theres just nothing, or what? in fact "to die would be a great adventure" according to peter pan. I really dont know how to wrap this up, so ill just leave you with this, do what works for you at whatever time you need it, and fuck everyone else, because in the end youre the one that has to "face your music" per se.

Thanatos340(on landing rounds)--
Landing procedure: Hand all the way up, Feet and Knees Together and PLF soon as you get bitch slapped by a planet.

[RALFFERS 0]

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Good for you. Show them who is boss. God doesn't love you. Love is a figment of the imagination. Have you ever received a blessing or unmerited favor? Jesus said you need to be hot or cold but, if you are lukewarm He'll spit you out of his mouth. Take a stand, damn't. Becoming an atheist is like becoming pregnant. You either are or you aren't.

Given that your religious faith, I understand why you disagree with him. What I don't understand is why you use the device of mockery and sarcastic scorn to express it to him. I know that you and the other very religious folks resent it when you/they are mocked disrespectfully about their beliefs. Are you trying to spiritually wake him up by using the device of shaming him? I doubt that it will work; in fact, I'd predict it will have the opposite effect. In other words, if you're trying to harden his heart by making him resent the judgmental abuse, that's a good way to go about it.

I respectfully urge you to reflect, and then change your approach to him.

I feel stupid for not picking up on this poster's mockery, Andy, thank you for pointing it out. For whatever reason, it's hard for me sometimes to pickup people's tones online.

To said poster - mocking me wont work,; it will indeed have the opposite effect. All my Christian friends have tried that; they've also have tried the "you better watch route" that you give children in pertaining to the Santa Claus story. All of this has only served as more reason to become an atheist.

Edited for grammatical mistakes.

Dialogue/commentary between Divot, Twardo & myself -

"from your first Oshkosh when the three of us were riding to or from one of

[ManagingPrime 0]

Sounds more like you are taking issue with your judeo-christian upbringing and leaning towards Agnosticism...not so much athiesm. A skeptical view can be healthy.

Atheism rejects the idea of a god or diety and at the end of the day there is as much to support that belief set as there is to support the belief set of thiests.

Sometimes it's fun to not know and not pick sides....just sit back and watch both sides accuse each othe rof having a cognitive malfuction.

[Butters 0]

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I do have one question though - as atheists, have you ever wondered the 'what if... after death?

Yes, but I've also wondered the 'what if it's not...' after death.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[RALFFERS 0]

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I do have one question though - as atheists, have you ever wondered the 'what if... after death?

Yes, but I've also wondered the 'what if it's not...' after death.

Yeah, I have - plenty of times over the years.. And to be honest, I don't like the concept of death in either case; I like our existence here as we know it. But seeing that we have to die yay or nay, I'm just out now to have the most fun that I can, while i can.

Dialogue/commentary between Divot, Twardo & myself -

"from your first Oshkosh when the three of us were riding to or from one of

[RonD1120 58]

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To said poster - mocking me wont work,; it will indeed have the opposite effect. All my Christian friends have tried that route, & have also tried the "you better watch route" route that you give children in pertaining to the Santa Claus story. All of this has only served as more reason to become an atheist.

Uh, I'm not mocking you. You have 2 jumps and clearly you are trying to impress the older skydivers and become one of the group. Go for it. You will find all sorts of people here to cheer you on. Don't be wimpy, make a stand.

Why
I
Missed
Perfection

Romans 12
Dedicated Service
1Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.
2And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.
3For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.

Philippians 1:6
6For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

As for me, I perform for an audience of one.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[gjhdiver 0]

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Uh, I'm not mocking you. You have 2 jumps and clearly you are trying to impress the older skydivers and become one of the group.

He may only have two jumps, but he's a damn sight brighter than certain posters on the other side of this issue.

Also, you seem to miss the irony of accusing someone of taking a position to be accepted as part of a larger group.

At least he isn't accepting a fairy tale to become part of a cult of self delusion.

[RonD1120 58]

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In fact, they have a lot less, because a lot of them are resistant to the undending march of Science.

If a man wants scientific knowledge, intellectual curiosity is his guide; but if he wants insight into what Jesus Christ teaches, he can only get it by obedience. ~ Oswald Chambers

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[beowulf 1]

So what you are saying is stop questioning and just believe.

I am not impressed.

[RALFFERS 0]

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To said poster - mocking me wont work,; it will indeed have the opposite effect. All my Christian friends have tried that route, & have also tried the "you better watch route" route that you give children in pertaining to the Santa Claus story. All of this has only served as more reason to become an atheist.

Uh, I'm not mocking you. You have 2 jumps and clearly you are trying to impress the older skydivers and become one of the group. Go for it. You will find all sorts of people here to cheer you on. Don't be wimpy, make a stand. .

I'm not trying to impress anyone. If you had a disability, which impacted your ability to make a living, & was an obstacle to over come in terms of skydiving directly than you'd have only 2 jumps for who knows how long as well. No, I'm not here to impress anyone.

Let me clarify something - I could give 2 shits about the fact that I'm disabled; it could be a lot worse, & I'm thankful I have it as good as I do. But if I told you it does not my effect my livelihood (or lack thereof in this case - because of people's perceptions) Than I'd be lying.

I'll get around to jumping when I can - it's torture enough not having a day go by that I don't think about it.

I didn't think you needed jump numbers to post on this forum... Having an interest in, & being passionate about the sport should be enough.

Dialogue/commentary between Divot, Twardo & myself -

"from your first Oshkosh when the three of us were riding to or from one of

[klafollette 0]

When people throw out the the Pascal's Wager as some justification that I'm better off hedging my bets by "believing", I think of it this way:

If there is no God or afterlife or heaven, then when I die, that's it, game over, end of story, I won't know the difference, nothing lost.

If there is a God, and he would punish and deny me entry into heaven or whatever is the afterlife, because I did not put faith in an entity that did not show himself or make himself known, or prove in any indisputable way to me that he exists, or in which I would be punished for having the intelligence to ask questions....well, I would call that BS, a dirty trick, childish and without any moral standing.

From a god like that, I do not want any part of what you are selling. You are by my standards dishonest and immoral for not judging me by the kindness I show to others and good that I do. Which I do BTW without threat of retribution or promise of reward. If you have power over my existence, I will suffer the consequences, for I have held the higher moral ground and will not compromise my ethics.

[fasted3 0]

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I have been in your shoes. I found that many religous people are very offended by the thought that anyone doesn't believe in god. The whole turning the other cheek or love thy neighbor quickly goes out the window.

I think that 'love thy neighbor,' and 'turn the other cheek,' is a good way to live, whether you believe in God or not.

But what do I know?

[beowulf 1]

I agree.
Many Christians seem to get very offended when they find out I am an atheist and are very rude. You would think the love thy neighbor part of their doctrine would kick in at that point but they tend to forget that part pretty easily.


RonD1120's initial reply is a good example. He was being very condescending and mocking. Just because he goes on to claim he wasn't doesn't change the tone of his original post. He needs to reread what he posted.

[RonD1120 58]

You are drifting. And, to confirm the number of jumps is not a qualification for posting.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 58]

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So what you are saying is stop questioning and just believe.

No, be obedient.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[quade 3]

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So what you are saying is stop questioning and just believe.

No, be obedient.

Which is exactly what the Santa Claus indoctrination is all about; isn't it?

Check the lyrics;

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You better watch out
You better not cry
Better not pout
I'm telling you why
Santa Claus is coming to town
He's making a list
And checking it twice;
Gonna find out Who's naughty and nice
Santa Claus is coming to town
He sees you when you're sleeping
He knows when you're awake
He knows if you've been bad or good
So be good for goodness sake!
O! You better watch out!
You better not cry
Better not pout
I'm telling you why
Santa Claus is coming to town
Santa Claus is coming to town

Obey or Santa won't give you any presents.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver