"I don't want non-whites in my country in any form or fashion or any status"
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kallend, in Speakers Corner
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GeorgiaDon 340
Well, of course, Chuck. Just a little hyperbole to make a point. Still, what measures (short of a ridiculous wall such as I described) would suffice to physically "seal the borders"? And, surely you will agree that closing the borders to tourists, legal immigration, and trade will have a pronounced adverse effect on the US? The point is, attractive as the notion is (on a superficial level), "sealing the borders" is not a realistic venture. That's not to say that I think the borders should be wide open, of course we need to control/know who is coming in.QuoteI think, you're going just a little over-board.
I think the danger of "seal the borders" is that it distracts attention from less direct but ultimately more effective and practical courses of action. One you mentioned, penalties for employers who hire illegals, is right at the top of my list. If jobs were not available to illegals, the attraction that draws people here would be dramatically reduced. Gangs are obviously a different sort of problem, and maybe there we could take some lessons from prohibition, where violence related to alcohol smuggling all but disappeared when prohibition was repealed. Of course, another lesson there is that organized crime didn't disappear, they just shifted markets to prostitution, drugs, gambling, etc, and todays gangs would likely do the same. So stepped-up law enforcement will have to be one component of whatever we do. However, thinking of the problem in terms of economics (what is the "demand" the "supply" of illegals is pegged to?)and human motivations is more likely to yield workable, sustainable solutions.
They do live in my neighborhood. I'd like to see the problem fixed, I just don't see "seal the borders" (if that is meant literally) to be a constructive element of the discussion.QuoteThe 'let 'em all in' attitude is going to ruin this country. I guess it's o.k. too as long as they don't live in your neighborhood.
Don
_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)
I'm not saying, keep-out tourists or those who intend on becoming U.s. citizens. All you drug supporters coe-out with all the prohibition talk and so-on. I think maybe, some folks in this country need to quit the 'recreational' dope... that would really cut-back on demand. Supporting illegals is to me, the same as 'aiding and abetting'. Whatever it takes to get control of who is coming into this country. The damned politicians might have to give-up some bit gifts or money under the table but they need to start doing their jobs and fix this country!
Chuck
Chuck
GeorgiaDon 340
Well sure it would cut back on demand. What do you imagine are the chances that will ever happen? If recreational drug users (and I am not one) aren't motivated to stop by the damage to their own health/cognitive abilities/jobs/relationships etc, do you think they will stop "for the good of the country"? Did people stop their demand for alcohol because of Prohibition? How hard is it for obese people to stop eating to excess? "Solutions" that run contrary to human nature are bound to fail.QuoteI think maybe, some folks in this country need to quit the 'recreational' dope... that would really cut-back on demand.
We do want the same things, and especially I'm sure we both want the gangs out of here. I'm just fishing for ideas that might have a chance of working.
Have a good weekend,
Don
_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)
RonD1120 58
QuoteI believe we will see more and more of these lunatic fringe types associated with the "Tea Party" movement in an attempt to discredit it. There is a significant backlash by hard working, tax paying Americans that have seen enough. This movement scares the hell out of liberal democrats, and the Obama administration. They can't refute the message, so they must resort to "demonizing" the movement itself.
Example of a sound, logical and, I might add, absolutely correct response.
+1
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
sundevil777 93
QuoteWhere's the right wing outrage? Remember how upset the right wing was because Muslims weren't denouncing 9/11 every day? Silence gives assent, you know.
I have no problem denouncing the guy as a total racist piece of shit.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am
kallend 1,622
It's OK, Mike, I really believe JR, airdiver and the others who, out of the blue, told us that not ALL Tea Party members are racists.
I don't believe the guy who seems to believe it's all a plot by Obama.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Amazon 7
QuoteQuoteWhere's the right wing outrage? Remember how upset the right wing was because Muslims weren't denouncing 9/11 every day? Silence gives assent, you know.
I have no problem denouncing the guy as a total racist piece of shit.
I'm good with that
mnealtx 0
QuoteIt's OK, Mike, I really believe JR, airdiver and the others who, out of the blue, told us that not ALL Tea Party members are racists.
It's OK, John, I really believe you, billvon, lucky and the others who, out of the blue, told us that not ALL Democrat party members are Communists.
QuoteI don't believe the guy who seems to believe it's all a plot by Obama.
Probably for the best, since that was YOUR strawman.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
You're right there. The increase in 'dope' usage grows bigger every day. I guess, the idea of legalizing it just makes me nervous. I wish, I had all the answers but I don't. You've made some very good points and worth considering. The sad thing is, those in control aren't going to listen to us. We definately have some problems in this country. Mostly, we are just spoiled and wasteful.
Chuck
Chuck
kallend 1,622
QuoteQuoteIt's OK, Mike, I really believe JR, airdiver and the others who, out of the blue, told us that not ALL Tea Party members are racists.
It's OK, John, I really believe you, billvon, lucky and the others who, out of the blue, told us that not ALL Democrat party members are Communists.
Links, please?
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
QuoteThis week Tea Party leaders such as Sarah Palin and FreedomWorks President Matt Kibbe had the opportunity to prove their commitment to the color-blind society they say they believe in; instead they took the low road, encouraging Tea Party foot soldiers to believe that the NAACP this week condemned them, wholesale, as racist. And, of course, that's not what happened in Kansas City, when the NAACP drafted a resolution addressing racism in the Tea Party movement.
What the NAACP draft resolution pointed out are the individual incidents of racism observed at some Tea Party gatherings, and it asked movement leaders to "repudiate the racist element and activities within the tea party,“ according to Hilary Shelton, director of the NAACP’s Washington bureau. "With increased influence comes increased responsibility," writes NAACP President Benjamin Todd Jealous on CNN's Web site. "It is long past time for Dick Armey and the Tea Party leadership to take a stance."
It would have been a simple gesture -- a demonstration of true patriotism -- one that in the eyes of most Americans would render the Tea Party movement much more palatable as an alternative to establishment GOP. Just take the NAACP up on its challenge, and condemn any and all expressions of racism that have turned up at movement gatherings, or out of the mouths of self-proclaimed movement leaders. But Tea Party leaders such as Palin and Kibbe apparently decided that greater fortune lay in ginning up the base they already have.
That racism has been in evidence at Tea Party gatherings is irrefutable.
http://www.alternet.org/teaparty/147576/why_won%27t_sarah_palin_and_tea_party_leaders_condemn_racism_in_their_midst/
stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding
Your understanding of straw man is only equaled by lucky's understanding of ad hominem.
(hint) This reply is neither a STRAW MAN nor AD HOMINEM. It is however a gramtical/personal attack as you both lack the fundementals of organon logic..
P.S ...>than you
(hint) This reply is neither a STRAW MAN nor AD HOMINEM. It is however a gramtical/personal attack as you both lack the fundementals of organon logic..
P.S ...>than you
mnealtx 0
QuoteYour understanding of straw man is only equaled by lucky's understanding of ad hominem.
"A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position."
By all means, educate me - show where flyerer said that Roper was a Dem plant in his post.
Quote(hint) This reply is neither a STRAW MAN nor AD HOMINEM.
You're batting .500, anyway. I suggest you look up "Ad hominem abusive". Lucky's problem is that he does the same thing and then cries when he gets it in return.
QuoteIt is however a gramtical/personal attack as you both lack the fundementals of organon logic..
When you're crowing about how much smarter you are than someone else (ooooh, Aristotle, even), your point is generally ruined when you make simple spelling mistakes.
QuoteP.S ...>than you
And this makes no sense at all.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
"When you're crowing about how much smarter you are than someone else (ooooh, Aristotle, even), your point is generally ruined when you make simple spelling mistakes. "
It'z two ezy to find when u diskovered teh sepel cheque. Tanks fur da exampull straw man
pleaze noute teh proper sepelnig
When you udnresatnd dat youinz are < tahn eye. Than you might begin to grasp logic
eduted_fer seepilng
It'z two ezy to find when u diskovered teh sepel cheque. Tanks fur da exampull straw man
pleaze noute teh proper sepelnig
When you udnresatnd dat youinz are < tahn eye. Than you might begin to grasp logic
eduted_fer seepilng
"By all means, educate me - show where flyerer said that Roper was a Dem plant in his post."
Your inability to understand why/how a straw man is used has not been addressed.
2nd hint(this could be described as ad hominem if you had not already proved your ignorance)
Your inability to understand why/how a straw man is used has not been addressed.
2nd hint(this could be described as ad hominem if you had not already proved your ignorance)
Skyrad 0
Who made it 'his' country?
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Andy9o8 0
QuoteWho made it 'his' country?
The Chinks who built the railroad that helped his forefathers violently conquer the Injuns.
http://health.usi.edu/faculty/India/India%20Family.jpg
No, not those Injuns.
http://www.old-picture.com/indians/pictures/Indian-Warriors.jpg
yeah, those.
QuoteQuoteWho made it 'his' country?
The Chinks who built the railroad that helped his forefathers violently conquer the Injuns.
http://health.usi.edu/faculty/India/India%20Family.jpg
No, not those Injuns.
http://www.old-picture.com/indians/pictures/Indian-Warriors.jpg
yeah, those.
...and what about your forefathers? I notice, you taking-up for Native people, quite often. Are those your forefathers? What have you done or what do you do for them today? I'm just asking.
Chuck
Chuck
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