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JohnRich

UK: Preacher arrested for saying homosexuality is a sin

By JohnRich, in Speakers Corner

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billvon    2,396

billvon
>In my opinion, since no Judeo-Christian society, specifically the
>U.S.A., legally allows marriage with a minor that young, it is sinful.

Well there ya go. Several Judeo-Christian societies (specifically US states) allow gay marriage, and it is not explicitly prohibited by the Bible. Therefore, it's not sinful.

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Andy9o8    0

Andy9o8
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The seventh day is God's Sabbath. There is no other day acceptable in the sight of God.



But do you agree that the Bible does not specify (or clarify) which one of the seven days of our modern week - i.e., Sunday through Saturday - is that day? In other words, is there any biblical guidance as to which of the seven days is the Sabbath day?

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Coreece    190

Coreece
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Well there ya go. Several Judeo-Christian societies (specifically US states) allow gay marriage, and it is not explicitly prohibited by the Bible. Therefore, it's not sinful.



no...just the butt lust
Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

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RonD1120    58

RonD1120
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Not sure why homosexual sex is worse than out-of-marriage sex, but it sure appears to be :S

Wendy P.



From the standpoint of sin, it is not. Sin is sin, see my post to billvon above.


Just curious (honest question)... Does the Bible say anything about age requirements for marriage? Would it be a sin for a 30-year-old man to marry (and then have sex with) a 10-year-old girl?


In my opinion, since no Judeo-Christian society, specifically the U.S.A., legally allows marriage with a minor that young, it is sinful. I have heard that some states allow marriage with females at 14 or 15 years of age. The New Covenant directs us to follow the laws of the land.


I think the flaw in that argument is to link morality with law. They may very well influence each other, but they are not the same (aside from pure theocracies). It is very common for religiously devout people of all religions to condemn certain laws (i.e., re: "unto Caesar") for being immoral and or sinful (i.e., re: "unto God").

Put another way, many laws may derive their existence from morality, but at an absolute level, morality does not - indeed, cannot - derive its very existence from mere laws.


I just composed and lost a lengthy, complementary and explanatory response. Such communique's should be typed and then copied into dz.com.

Stuff to do, later.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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lost_n_confuzd    0

lost_n_confuzd
Back on topic...

...I used to play frisbee in Hyde Park (London) on Sundays (is it Sundays?) and afterwards would listen to all the soapbox speeches and self-proclaimed minsiters spew their shit. I've never heard of anyone getting arrested for what they were doing, but then again, it was mainly Muslims doing all the talking....so I guess its was protected.

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Amazon    7

Amazon
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So if you're gay and eat seafood you're pretty much done for. :P



Oh I am sure the American Taliban will be right there with them..... there are a WHOLE lot of Levitican Abominations that they seem to have chosen to think are ok and they fully embrace them.

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Coreece    190

Coreece
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Oh I am sure the American Taliban will be right there with them..... there are a WHOLE lot of Levitican Abominations that they seem to have chosen to think are ok and they fully embrace them.



Do you understand the difference between the moral law, judicial law, and cerimonial law?

Do you understand how those laws relate to Scribal/Oral Law, the Mish-nah and the Tal-muds?

Do you understand that Chist did not come to abolish the Law but to fullfill it?

Do you understand what it means for Christ to fullfill the law?

Do you understand why Christ even had to state that he did not come to abolish the Law, but to fullfill it?

Do you understand that he charged the scribes and the pharisees as hypocrites for their imposition of scribal law?

Do you understand that Christ fullfilled the moral, judicial and cerimonial laws?

If not, then how can you understand why many of those laws aren't practiced today?

How can you understand that people today can fullfill the moral law through faith in Jesus Christ?

EDIT

Here is some relevant scripture:

Matthew 5: 17-20

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Galatians 3:1-14
O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith—just as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"?

Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "In you shall all the nations be blessed." So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

The Righteous Shall Live by Faith
For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them." Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for "The righteous shall live by faith." But the law is not of faith, rather "The one who does them shall live by them." Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree"— so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

(furthermore)

Galatians 3:15-29

The Law and the Promise
To give a human example, brothers: even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, "And to offsprings," referring to many, but referring to one, "And to your offspring," who is Christ. This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one.

Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.
Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

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Amazon    7

Amazon
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Oh I am sure the American Taliban will be right there with them..... there are a WHOLE lot of Levitican Abominations that they seem to have chosen to think are ok and they fully embrace them.



Do you understand the difference between the moral law, judicial law, and cerimonial law?

Do you understand how those laws relate to Scribal/Oral Law, the Mish-nah and the Tal-muds?

Do you understand that Chist did not come to abolish the Law but to fullfill it?

Do you understand what it means for Christ to fullfill the law?

Do you understand why Christ even had to state that he did not come to abolish the Law, but to fullfill it?

Do you understand that he charged the scribes and the pharisees as hypocrites for there imposition of scribal law?

Do you understand that Christ fullfilled the moral, judicial and cerimonial laws?

If not, then how can you understand why many of those laws aren't practiced today?

How can you understand that people today can fullfill the moral law through faith in Jesus Christ?


Why yes... yes I do...:ph34r::ph34r:

8 years of a private parochial school tends to give one a very good basis for understanding and a good foundation in comparative religion.

The problem my dear stems from so many who do NOT understand and wish to pick and choose the abominations they wish to bludgeon their fellow human beings with.

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chuteless    1

chuteless
There is so much evidence that the Sabbath Day is the seventh day of the week , you would have to be blind not to find it.

God created the world in six days, and he rested on the seventh day, which is HIS SABBATH.

I will send you an email with other more clear references....right now I am in a ru8sh....have to pick my granddaughter up from school.

Bill




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Andy9o8    0

Andy9o8
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The seventh day is God's Sabbath. There is no other day acceptable in the sight of God.



But do you agree that the Bible does not specify (or clarify) which one of the seven days of our modern week - i.e., Sunday through Saturday - is that day? In other words, is there any biblical guidance as to which of the seven days is the Sabbath day?




Quote

There is so much evidence that the Sabbath Day is the seventh day of the week , you would have to be blind not to find it.



Thank you, but that's not what I meant. What I meant was: is there evidence that the seventh day of the week is necessarily the modern Sunday, as most Christians believe, or Saturday, as Jews believe, or Friday, as Muslims believe, etc.?

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billvon    2,396

billvon
>There is so much evidence that the Sabbath Day is the seventh day
>of the week , you would have to be blind not to find it.

Agreed. But on my calendars, the weeks all start on Sunday; the seventh day is Saturday.

That's also where the name came from. Sunday was named after the Sun, the first (and biggest) object in the Solar System. Saturday came from Saturn, the seventh object in the Solar System (the first six being the Sun, Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars and Jupiter.)

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chuteless    1

chuteless
Andy908: After the sixth day of creation, God rested on the SEVENTH DAY, and blessed it and sanctified it as HIS SABBATH DAY.

It is the only day from which one can look back at the great creation, and view God's handiwork in all that He created in the six days of creation.

You cannot do that from any day except the seventh day.

Now if you listen to such as Billvon, then you will easily be lead astray, because his calendars all have Saturday as the seventh day, a perfect example of how mankind has taken the things of God and re-arranged them to suit man.

Similarly, mankind has taken God's " day " which is EVENING and MORNING, and re-arranged it to be Morning and EVENING. The day according to God's plan, begins at what we know as NOON.

There is nothing that will confuse mankind quicker than to establish a susbstitute for what God had ordained.

Even the newer Bibles are a sign of Satanic influence, trying to re-write the Holy WORD of God, to suit man's objectives. These re-write versions are nothing but perversions.

God was certainly able to create this entire world and everything in it, and He also is quite capable of writing a single book with His perfection and Divine Guidance through His Holy Spirit and He didnt need men to correct the mistakes He never made.

And the Lord God spake unto Moses,saying:

Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily MY SABBATHS ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you, throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.

Exodus 31:13 . Read the continuing verses to verse 18, and see how God uses the seventh day, His Sabbath Day, as a sign between God and the children of Israel for ever., wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe as a perpetual covenant.

A PERPETUAL COVENANT....totally binding, unbreakable by God, but like mankind, anything is breakable. Man's word is never truth....God's WORD is always TRUTH.

There was a Jewish king, Jeroboam, who changed it from the seventh day to the first, in honour of the pagan sun god, and sun worship.

As I stated, ONLY the 7th Day points back to te six days of creation, NOT Sunday, the first day of the week.

No other day is a memorial to the preceeding days of creation, and a reminder of who it was that created the world and everything in it.

Satan has deluded the world into supposing that Christ was resurrected on a Sunday morning at sunrise, the very time of pagan sun worship, but it is a false doctrine, and not of God.

_______________________

Now let me throw another subject into this discussion that may shock some ( if not all ) of you.

I suppose you have heard of the 10 lost tribes of Israel.

Well, just so you know, all Jews are Israelites, but not all Israelites are Jews.

The only tribes of Israel that are Jews are the tribes of Benjamin, Levi and Judah , the last one is where the name JEW came from.

The ten lost tribes of Israel were originally taken caprtive/slaves, by the Assyrians, and after a lengthy time, they wandered further north and west.

The two most important tribes were those of Ephriam and Manasseh, the two sons of Joseph who had ruled in Egypt in the last days of Jacob's lifetime.

As the tribes of Ephriam and Manasseh, their tribes ( as well as other Israeli tribes) ended up populating places like Turkey, then further north to Poland, Germany, Holland, Belgium, Denmark, Sweden, and later, across the English channel to Ireland, then to Scotland, and then finally to England. By this time, they had lost their Israeli heritage, and thought of themselves as Gentile.

Later, the tribe of Manasseh left England, and sailed for the shores of New England and landed at Plymouth Rock., and the exploration of North America really got serious ( with God's help).

Even as late as the War of 1812, England and the USA ( Ephriam and Manasseh) were at war with each other, which helped spur on the extablishment of America that began in 1776.

The main stock of the United States of America, is the tribe of Manasseh ( Israeli), and although many other people have drifted into the " melting pot" America is generally speaking, the Israeli tribe of Manasseh.

God had blessed America and Britain more than any other nation in history, but now, after rejecting God, thinking America is in charge of this world, you are about to get a real lesson to the contrary.

This will also explain to those who may doubt it, why England and the United States of America are so close...they are brothers through the blood lines of Joseph, son of Jacob ( Israel was his later name) who was the son of Issac, who was the son of Abraham.

This should also help explain to you why America and England have a very tight bond with Israel of today, and they defend Israel at every opportunity.

However, one last thing yet to come of this, Read Isaiah 9;21.....where it says the bond between America/Britain and Israel will break, and that in the not too distant future.

However, as I said before, the days of the United States and Britain are numbered, and they will fall. Both nations are a pit of evil and indecency, promoting their faggot parades, same sex marriage, and every abomination imaginable. They have thrown God out of the schools, the Government buildings, the Supreme Court decisions, and then they wonder why God's rage comes at them in the form of God made floods, Tsunamis, forest and brush fires, tornadoes,drought , hailstorms, avalanches, and all other terrible things.

The worst is yet to come: plagues, pestilence for which there is no cures. Read what God brought on the Pharaoh of Egypt, and the world will get much worse than Egypt received.

Water becomes blood...undrinkable, plagues of frogs, lice,, flies,the death of the Egyptian cattle, and the firstborn of all things including people, locusts, and a plague of inky black darkness,

Be sure to worship God on His Sabbath.....Saturday, not Sunday, and Billvon...perhaps you should get a new calendar and a new mentality.


Bill Cole

___________________________

To wonder if Saturday is the first or last day, is like asking of a red crayon is really blue....or perhaps green, and someone got the colors wrong away back when.

Sunday was named after the sun, and pagan sun worship, and has no place being used to reflect the creation of Almighty God.

This is man's doing, under Satan's influence. Argue it if you wish, but it plainly shows who it is you serve as your God.




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DanG    1

DanG
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Even the newer Bibles are a sign of Satanic influence, trying to re-write the Holy WORD of God, to suit man's objectives. These re-write versions are nothing but perversions.

God was certainly able to create this entire world and everything in it, and He also is quite capable of writing a single book with His perfection and Divine Guidance through His Holy Spirit and He didnt need men to correct the mistakes He never made.

And the Lord God spake unto Moses,saying:

Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily MY SABBATHS ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you, throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.

Exodus 31:13 . Read the continuing verses to verse 18, and see how God uses the seventh day, His Sabbath Day, as a sign between God and the children of Israel for ever., wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe as a perpetual covenant.



Why would you quote us a pervesion?

Or do you believe God wrote the Scriptures in English?

- Dan G

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jakee    1,254

jakee
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However, as I said before, the days of the United States and Britain are numbered, and they will fall.



Oh yeah? When? Bush has been and gone, but we're both still here...

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The worst is yet to come: plagues, pestilence for which there is no cures. Read what God brought on the Pharaoh of Egypt, and the world will get much worse than Egypt received.



So you've definitely stopped putting dates on things then? Now we only get 'soon'?

Quote

perhaps you should get a new calendar and a new mentality.



My existing calendar is more than enough to let me know how often your biblical interpretation has failed. What is it that's supposed to happen to false prophets?
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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billvon    2,396

billvon
>Now if you listen to such as Billvon, then you will easily be lead astray,
>because his calendars all have Saturday as the seventh day . . .

Apparently Episcopalian liturgical calendars do as well:

http://www.io.com/~kellywp/

So do the Catholics:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.wilmotlutheran.info/Media/Feb_Calendar_2010.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.wilmotlutheran.info/Pages/Calendar.html&usg=__Eh3pUMm4PWH9JIcqIVZsj6AQKnI=&h=570&w=716&sz=23&hl=en&start=3&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=Ph7GcEDbqikTnM:&tbnh=111&tbnw=140&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dlutheran%2Bcalendar%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26tbs%3Disch:1[

So do Catholics:

http://www.americancatholic.org/Features/Saints/bydate.aspx

So do Mormons:

http://www.lds.org/calendar/1,5049,27,00.html

Which Christian religion lists Sunday as the seventh day on the calendar?

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chuteless    1

chuteless
Seventh Day Adventists are the only ones who obey the Commandment of God :

Remember the Sabbath Day : to keep it holy.

Those churches who fail to do so, are being disobedient to God on one of two commandments, that are generally referred to as the " Test Commandments".


Most churches today are disobedient to God in many ways...especially the Catholic Church and the Mormons.

As much as they deny it, the Catholic Church worships images , statues, crosses, and anything considered a relic of someone who died.

They pray to people who are still in their grave including the Popes, who will need all the help they can get on judgment day.

They ask their deceased reelatives to talk to God on their behalf...what paganism.

No one but Jesus Christ is able to speak to God on anyone's behalf.




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