quade 3
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billvon 2,380
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>ALL persons born here are citizens. You might not like it, but there it is none the less.
The US Constitution - frustrating conservatives since 1787.
The US Constitution - frustrating conservatives since 1787.
The correct interpretation of the 14th Amendment is its plain English meaning, just like the rest of the US Constitution.
All persons born in the United states are citizens of the United states.
Any one who doesn't like it can work to have a 2/3 majority of both House and Senate to propose an amendment and 3/4 of the state legislatures to ratify it.
All persons born in the United states are citizens of the United states.
Any one who doesn't like it can work to have a 2/3 majority of both House and Senate to propose an amendment and 3/4 of the state legislatures to ratify it.
quade 3
Quotewhat I don't like is the current interpretation of the 14th, would like to see this tested legally in the proper forum
By "proper forum" you mean what? The US Supreme Court?
I believe they may have already looked at the issue once or twice.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_born_citizen_of_the_United_States#Supreme_Court_cases_relating_to_citizenship
Unfortunately for you, they don't seem to see it the way you'd want.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
You still don't understand what ad hominem means or how they are used.
QuoteI believe they may have already looked at the issue once or twice.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_born_citizen_of_the_United_States#Supreme_Court_cases_relating_to_citizenship
Unfortunately for you, they don't seem to see it the way you'd want.
Agreed about their interpretation but it seems they used English common law to get their precedent:
"were within the allegiance, the obedience, the faith or loyalty, the protection, the power, and the jurisdiction of the English sovereign"
In other words when the parents are not citizens, then the citizenship of the child seems to depend on the parents, while not citizens, at least having some "loyalty" or "allegiance" to their adopted country.
It is very hard to see where the child of an illegal alien fits into the framework that the above quote seems to envision.
I think the basic principle here is that if the parents are playing fully by the rules of the country, then the offspring are full citizens even if the parents are not. But if the parents just forced their way in--all bets are off.
"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014
Lucky... 0
QuoteYou still don't understand what ad hominem means or how they are used.
Oh please, what is so fucking difficult?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
An ad hominem, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "to the man"), is an attempt to persuade which links the validity of a premise to a characteristic or belief of the person advocating the premise
Diablopilot asked, "John, are you a citizen of the US?"
This was supposed to somehow influence the merits of the argument based upon whether Kallend is or is not a citizen, or, even if it was a rhetorical question. John's citizenship is irrelevant to the point. Andy immediatley made this point, I was thinking it as I read Diablopilot ask.
If you need further clarification, I would be glad to help.
So, everybody's posturing aside, are you a US citizen?
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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.
Asking a question is not ad hominem. Using the answere to vilify and/or discredit in the defense of a position may be. Thanks for posting my proof.
Lucky... 0
QuoteAsking a question is not ad hominem. Using the answere to vilify and/or discredit in the defense of a position may be. Thanks for posting my proof.
Asking a question of a person's citizenship as if to qualify them to be fit to answer the question is an ad hominem to people able to sniff out the real intent behind it.
You have zero fucking idea how he was going use the response. Go dig out your high school logic book and find out what suppositions like yours are classically refereed to as.
Lucky... 0
QuoteYou have zero fucking idea how he was going use the response. Go dig out your high school logic book and find out what suppositions like yours are classically refereed to as.
Kallend's or anyone's citizenship hs zero purpose other than to say something like: WHT do you know, you're not even an American, or something as brilliant. He hasn't stepped in to clarify, so maybe now he can pipe in to dream up something innocuous.
You are still wrong.
turtlespeed 212
QuoteQuoteYou have zero fucking idea how he was going use the response. Go dig out your high school logic book and find out what suppositions like yours are classically refereed to as.
Kallend's or anyone's citizenship hs zero purpose other than to say something like: WHT do you know, you're not even an American, or something as brilliant. He hasn't stepped in to clarify, so maybe now he can pipe in to dream up something innocuous.
And here we have mind reading and clarivoyance.
Sweet - Call The psychic Hotline - you have a future in telepsych.
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun
Haha, the end of the world might be forthcoming.
Andy9o8 0
QuoteSo, everybody's posturing aside, are you a US citizen?
OK, let's cut to the chase. Let's assume he's not, and that he's chosen to retain his UK citizenship while, for the past 30 years as a legal resident of the US, being a productive member of the US society and economy, spending a generation educating budding engineers in the US, paying taxes into the US treasury, raising a family in the US, paying his children's college tuition in the US, and worrying as a father while his son, a member of the US Army Airborne, was deployed to Iraq.
So, everybody's posturing aside, would you kindly now answer the previously-asked question about what relevance John's citizenship has to this thread, or to his posts on the issue?
wolfriverjoe 1,340
QuoteQuoteSo, everybody's posturing aside, are you a US citizen?
OK, let's cut to the chase. Let's assume he's not, and that he's chosen to retain his UK citizenship while, for the past 30 years as a legal resident of the US, being a productive member of the US society and economy, spending a generation educating budding engineers in the US, paying taxes into the US treasury, raising a family in the US, paying his children's college tuition in the US, and worrying as a father while his son, a member of the US Army Airborne, was deployed to Iraq.
So, everybody's posturing aside, would you kindly now answer the previously-asked question about what relevance John's citizenship has to this thread, or to his posts on the issue?
Perhaps as an alien living here, he would have a different set of ideas than a person who has gone through the process to legally become a citizen.
An "outsider" willing to stay that way (out of loyalty to his own country or an unwillingness to go through all the bureaucratic hassle) would be coming from a different viewpoint than someone who wants to be a completely integrated part of this country.
I don't see one as better than the other, nor does his citizenship or lack of affect the validity of his views, but it would be nice to know where his views are originating from if he is willing to share that.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy
"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo
"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo
Andy9o8 0
Yea, ok, great.
Since we seem to know what Kallend's legal and societal status is now, I'd just like JP to answer the fucking question already.
Earth to JP?
Since we seem to know what Kallend's legal and societal status is now, I'd just like JP to answer the fucking question already.
Earth to JP?
kallend 1,620
Quoteif the parents are illegal and from country X, then it would seem that the child falls under the jurisdiction of country X, if so they are not citizens of the US
If that jurisdiction thing applies as you state it, it's going to make it really hard to prosecute the children of illegal immigrants for pretty much any crime, since the US wouldn't have jurisdiction over those people.
Andy9o8 0
QuoteQuoteif the parents are illegal and from country X, then it would seem that the child falls under the jurisdiction of country X, if so they are not citizens of the US
If that jurisdiction thing applies as you state it, it's going to make it really hard to prosecute the children of illegal immigrants for pretty much any crime, since the US wouldn't have jurisdiction over those people.
Haha!
Nyeah nyea.
Avoidance. Your credibility suffers yet again.
Edit: Grammar.
Edit: Grammar.
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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.
turtlespeed 212
QuoteAvoidance. You're credibility suffers yet again.
This surprises you? That is his MO. That is how he rolls.
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
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