GeorgiaDon 340 #51 May 25, 2010 QuoteOk, which is why I noted that currently border security is costing a fortune, when some of that money should go towards double layer fencing. No fence has been more than an inconvenient nuisance, illegals manage to climb over, cut through them, or tunnel under them. Drug runners in Douglas AZ have dug tunnels that are hundreds of yards long, longer than the spacing between double fences. The point is that fences without border security are worthless, so you'll be mistaken to assume building a double fence will be cheap border security. QuoteSomething that confuses the fuck outta me is why the hell do left wingers not care about illegal immigration, while right wingers do? The ones that benefit are the companies employing them, while entry level low skilled workers suffer. Totally lopsided. If you actually believe that, you certainly are confused. The left wingers I know do consider illegal immigration to be a problem, and they are proponents of solutions that will have a high likelihood of success without violating the constitution. Right wingers seem more interested in kicking ass, whether or not ass-kicking is effective or constitutional. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #52 May 25, 2010 Quote Do you know how much taxpayer money is being spent on illegals? A huge sum. And illegals also pay a huge sum in taxes.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,396 #53 May 25, 2010 >Ok, which is why I noted that currently border security is costing a fortune, > when some of that money should go towards double layer fencing. Double layer fencing near Tijuana cost between 3 and 10 million dollars a mile, and it's very porous. Our border with Mexico is 2000 miles long. That means it could cost 20 billion. We spend 4 billion a year on Border Patrol total. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmyfitz 0 #54 May 25, 2010 QuoteQuote Do you know how much taxpayer money is being spent on illegals? A huge sum. And illegals also pay a huge sum in taxes. Huge sum? Doubtful. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,396 #55 May 25, 2010 >Huge sum? Doubtful. Not huge but noticeable: ================== As the debate over Social Security heats up, the estimated seven million or so illegal immigrant workers in the United States are now providing the system with a subsidy of as much as $7 billion a year. While it has been evident for years that illegal immigrants pay a variety of taxes, the extent of their contributions to Social Security is striking: the money added up to about 10 percent of last year's surplus. =============================== In the fine print of the 2008 annual report on Social Security, released last week, the program’s trustees noted that growing numbers of “other than legal” workers are expected to bolster the program over the coming decades. We’re not talking chump change. According to the report, the taxes paid by other-than-legal immigrants will close 15 percent of the system’s projected long-term deficit. That’s equivalent to raising the payroll tax by 0.3 percentage points, starting today. ================================= White House Council of Economic Advisers, 2007: The long-run impact of immigration on public budgets is likely to be positive. Projections of future taxes and government spending are subject to uncertainty, but a careful study published by the National Research Council estimated that immigrants and their descendants would contribute about $80,000 more in taxes (in 1996 dollars) than they would receive in public services. The long-term fiscal approach imparts four main lessons: 1) although subject to uncertainty, it appears that immigration has a slightly positive long-run fiscal impact; 2) skilled immigrants have a more positive impact than others; 3) the positive fiscal impact tends to accrue at the federal level, but net costs tend to be concentrated at the state and local level; and 4) the overall fiscal effect of immigration is not large relative to the volume of total tax revenues – immigration is unlikely to cure or cause significant fiscal imbalances. ============================= Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmyfitz 0 #56 May 25, 2010 Quote>Huge sum? Doubtful. Not huge but noticeable: ================== As the debate over Social Security heats up, the estimated seven million or so illegal immigrant workers in the United States are now providing the system with a subsidy of as much as $7 billion a year. While it has been evident for years that illegal immigrants pay a variety of taxes, the extent of their contributions to Social Security is striking: the money added up to about 10 percent of last year's surplus. =============================== In the fine print of the 2008 annual report on Social Security, released last week, the program’s trustees noted that growing numbers of “other than legal” workers are expected to bolster the program over the coming decades. We’re not talking chump change. According to the report, the taxes paid by other-than-legal immigrants will close 15 percent of the system’s projected long-term deficit. That’s equivalent to raising the payroll tax by 0.3 percentage points, starting today. ================================= White House Council of Economic Advisers, 2007: The long-run impact of immigration on public budgets is likely to be positive. Projections of future taxes and government spending are subject to uncertainty, but a careful study published by the National Research Council estimated that immigrants and their descendants would contribute about $80,000 more in taxes (in 1996 dollars) than they would receive in public services. The long-term fiscal approach imparts four main lessons: 1) although subject to uncertainty, it appears that immigration has a slightly positive long-run fiscal impact; 2) skilled immigrants have a more positive impact than others; 3) the positive fiscal impact tends to accrue at the federal level, but net costs tend to be concentrated at the state and local level; and 4) the overall fiscal effect of immigration is not large relative to the volume of total tax revenues – immigration is unlikely to cure or cause significant fiscal imbalances. ============================= Do you have any links to those "facts"? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dunesurfer 0 #57 May 25, 2010 Quote Why do you think that the Mexican govenment encourages immigration? Simply put, we are a dumping ground for Mexico's social issues they will not deal with themselves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,396 #58 May 25, 2010 >Do you have any links to those "facts"? Sure, here's one: http://2001-2009.commerce.gov/s/groups/public/@doc/@os/@opa/documents/content/prod01_003086.pdf In general, if you want to identify the origin of a quote, you can take the first few sentences, copy them into Google and it will find it for you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #59 May 25, 2010 Quote Why do you think that the Mexican govenment encourages immigration? it's called 'free trade' (surely you're for that)stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #60 May 25, 2010 Quote Quote Why do you think that the Mexican govenment encourages immigration? it's called 'free trade' (surely you're for that) So freed trade should includse illegal acts in your opinion?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #61 May 25, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Why do you think that the Mexican govenment encourages immigration? it's called 'free trade' (surely you're for that) So freed trade should includse illegal acts in your opinion? immigration isn't illegal stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #62 May 25, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote Why do you think that the Mexican govenment encourages immigration? it's called 'free trade' (surely you're for that) So freed trade should includse illegal acts in your opinion? immigration isn't illegal Illegal immigration is. You know, the whole crossing the border without permission thing.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #63 May 25, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Why do you think that the Mexican govenment encourages immigration? it's called 'free trade' (surely you're for that) So freed trade should includse illegal acts in your opinion? immigration isn't illegal Illegal immigration is. You know, the whole crossing the border without permission thing. Looks like, Washington got the memo! Obama is sending 1,200 National Guard troops to the Southwest border to assist the Border Patrol. This time, they'd better not give the Guard rubber bullets, like they did the last time. Also, The Texas border is going to have drones flying along it. Things are looking better! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #64 May 25, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Why do you think that the Mexican govenment encourages immigration? it's called 'free trade' (surely you're for that) So freed trade should includse illegal acts in your opinion? immigration isn't illegal Illegal immigration is. You know, the whole crossing the border without permission thing. Looks like, Washington got the memo! Obama is sending 1,200 National Guard troops to the Southwest border to assist the Border Patrol. This time, they'd better not give the Guard rubber bullets, like they did the last time. Also, The Texas border is going to have drones flying along it. Things are looking better! It is truly unfortunate that it has to come to this.Chuck I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #65 May 25, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote Why do you think that the Mexican govenment encourages immigration? it's called 'free trade' (surely you're for that) So freed trade should includse illegal acts in your opinion? immigration isn't illegal Not if, one goes through the proper channels to become a citizen or aquire a work visa. It's when they sneak over our border looking to join gangs or work, that's ILLEGAL. Think! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #66 May 25, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Why do you think that the Mexican govenment encourages immigration? it's called 'free trade' (surely you're for that) So freed trade should includse illegal acts in your opinion? immigration isn't illegal Illegal immigration is. You know, the whole crossing the border without permission thing. Looks like, Washington got the memo! Obama is sending 1,200 National Guard troops to the Southwest border to assist the Border Patrol. This time, they'd better not give the Guard rubber bullets, like they did the last time. Also, The Texas border is going to have drones flying along it. Things are looking better! It is truly unfortunate that it has to come to this.Chuck Sometimes, ya' gotta' do what ya' gotta do. They brought it on themselves. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #67 May 26, 2010 In addition to troops being sent to our Southwest border to stop drug cartesl smuggling dope, the Mexican govt. issued a statement hoping the troops would leave the illegals alone and let them pass freely! What a crock of crap! The Mexican govt. just does not want to deal with their poor, jobless population! They 'want' us to take them. Screw that!!! We have 13,000,000 U.S. citizens out of work and they want us to accept illegals! They're out of their minds! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #68 May 26, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuote Do you know how much taxpayer money is being spent on illegals? A huge sum. And illegals also pay a huge sum in taxes. Huge sum? Doubtful. I just defined "huge sum" the way the previous poster did. It's all relative.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #69 May 26, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Do you know how much taxpayer money is being spent on illegals? A huge sum. And illegals also pay a huge sum in taxes. Huge sum? Doubtful. I just defined "huge sum" the way the previous poster did. It's all relative. hey... look at my bank book... $15K is a huge sum next to it. (I almost went the penis comparison route "compated my my wee little winky..." as it might have gotten a better laugh, but we seem to be so worried about hurting people's feelings around here.)-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LongWayToFall 0 #70 May 28, 2010 In 1996, Illegals payed about 10 billion in taxes. This is quite a bit, however they also collected about 30 billion in social programs, the largest of which is K-12 schooling. This leaves us in the hole about 20 billion. Illegals are costing us a lot, we need to stop them. Green cards need some way of being verified by employers, as well as social security cards. These 2 pieces of ID are bought on the street by illegals, and get this, the social security administration doesn't give a crap. When they receive money from a paycheck under a false social security number, they simple add the number to a file of "unknowns" which they say they will figure out later, but never do. This file is responsible for a large amount of taxes, they don't want to stop those taxes. Every department is trying to cover their own ass, even though the illegals are killing us. Yes tunnels can be dug, and ladders constructed. However, solid fencing will do its part in an overall plan of stopping immigration. It starts with stopping the laws we have in place here that allow illegals to function here. If less illegals are trying to come, border security will have a much easier time dealing with the drug cartels. Oh, and to address my comment about liberals and illegal immigration, it seems many people I know say that "They are taking the jobs that nobody here want" "Who are we to stop them from coming here? We took their land from them!" etc. Granted, these are not indicative of a political view, but it seems like liberals are easier on the whole issue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #71 May 30, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Why do you think that the Mexican govenment encourages immigration? it's called 'free trade' (surely you're for that) So freed trade should includse illegal acts in your opinion? immigration isn't illegal Illegal immigration is. You know, the whole crossing the border without permission thing. Looks like, Washington got the memo! Obama is sending 1,200 National Guard troops to the Southwest border to assist the Border Patrol. This time, they'd better not give the Guard rubber bullets, like they did the last time. Also, The Texas border is going to have drones flying along it. Things are looking better! Chuck Since the Border Patrol has great difficulty recruiting agents (it has had to lower the requirements and is still short of its recruiting goals) maybe those who whine the most should volunteer for a 3 year stint woking in 100 degree temperatures in the desert. Or maybe they should give the jobs to those who are willing to do that for low pay: Mexicans... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #72 May 30, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Why do you think that the Mexican govenment encourages immigration? it's called 'free trade' (surely you're for that) So freed trade should includse illegal acts in your opinion? immigration isn't illegal Illegal immigration is. You know, the whole crossing the border without permission thing. Looks like, Washington got the memo! Obama is sending 1,200 National Guard troops to the Southwest border to assist the Border Patrol. This time, they'd better not give the Guard rubber bullets, like they did the last time. Also, The Texas border is going to have drones flying along it. Things are looking better! Chuck Since the Border Patrol has great difficulty recruiting agents (it has had to lower the requirements and is still short of its recruiting goals) maybe those who whine the most should volunteer for a 3 year stint woking in 100 degree temperatures in the desert. Or maybe they should give the jobs to those who are willing to do that for low pay: Mexicans Are you saying the Border Patrol should hire illegals?A majority of Border Patrol Agents on the Southwest border ARE Hispanic. As are Line Seniors and Chief Patrol Agents. Granted, the Border Patrol has lowered it's standards a bit but one thing you need to consider is, the number of wash-outs and drop-outs. Out of 100 who enter the Border Patrol academy maybe and that's a big maybe, 60 will graduate. It's no walk in the park! Then, after they reach their duty station, more will quit. As for the pay, if anything, it should be increased, considering the duty. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #73 May 30, 2010 ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
