Obama upset about the oil spill "blame game"... Seriously?

[ridestrong 1]

A clearly frustrated President Obama on Friday said that the system for preventing accidents like the April 20 oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico "failed badly," while calling the "blame game" among oil executives at Senate hearings this week "a ridiculous spectacle."

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Just a bit hypocritical since he is the king of the blame game and finger pointing.

BP is at fault and needs to pay every last cent to clean this up, not the US tax payers or anyone else.

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[marks2065 0]

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A clearly frustrated President Obama on Friday said that the system for preventing accidents like the April 20 oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico "failed badly," while calling the "blame game" among oil executives at Senate hearings this week "a ridiculous spectacle."

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Just a bit hypocritical since he is the king of the blame game.

BP is at fault and needs to pay every last cent to clean this up, not the US tax payers or anyone else.

to bad they cannot admit guilt because of the lawyers like obama, because if they admitted guilt the lawyers would have a field day.

[billvon 2,396]

>to bad they cannot admit guilt because of the lawyers like obama

Nice one! You are truly a master of the blame game.

[rushmc 18]

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>to bad they cannot admit guilt because of the lawyers like obama

Nice one! You are truly a master of the blame game.

The irony of his comment can not be measured so

IT MUST BE BUSH'S FAULT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[riddler 0]

Where are the tea-baggers and Palin-wannabes shouting DRILL, BABY, DRILL?

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[quade 3]

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Where are the tea-baggers and Palin-wannabes shouting DRILL, BABY, DRILL?

Didn't you hear? They're now denying they ever said that.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jgoose71 0]

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Where are the tea-baggers and Palin-wannabes shouting DRILL, BABY, DRILL?

Didn't you hear? They're now denying they ever said that.

It was never denied. Where did you get that? DRILL, BABY DRILL!!!!

Hope that makes you happy.

All of the Liberals are still trying to figure out how to side step Supreme Leader Obama's comments on drilling so they can give OPEC more power over the U.S. Energy Independence is still a long ways off.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[idrankwhat 0]

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It was never denied. Where did you get that? DRILL, BABY DRILL!!!!

So I assume that you're for nationalizing our oil supplies then? If not, then drilling for more oil here in the US will do little more than to reduce our reserves. Once it comes out of the ground it will be added to the world market. And if that's going to be the case then we need to make sure, at the very least, that we actually collect on our leases, something that we seem to let slide for some reason.
Besides, if you consume more than you have then you're going to have to import. That's pretty easy to figure out. Using less petroleum and getting our energy from alternatives is the only way to become energy independent. But given the amount of "free speech" that the oil companies have and the fact that bribing politicians is essentially legal, I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for that independence day.

[billvon 2,396]

>Energy Independence is still a long ways off.

Yep. Some of us want that day to come sooner. Oddly a lot of conservatives want to make sure it never comes.

[rushmc 18]

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>Energy Independence is still a long ways off.

Yep. Some of us want that day to come sooner. Oddly a lot of conservatives want to make sure it never comes.

Mr Twister strikes again

Got the same goal but we just have a more common sense way of achiving it

But raising taxes and costs is the best way to go about it huh

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[riddler 0]

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It was never denied. Where did you get that?

From here.

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GOP Whip Jon Kyl (Ariz.) and Sen. Pat Roberts (Kan.) said Senate Republicans have never endorsed the phrase.

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"I don't know about the slogan. The slogan was what, two, three years ago and basically we had a lot of opposition to it anyway."

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[billvon 2,396]

>Got the same goal but we just have a more common sense way of achiving it

Yes, it was mentioned above - DRILL, BABY DRILL!

[RPC1117 0]

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>Got the same goal but we just have a more common sense way of achiving it

Yes, it was mentioned above - DRILL, BABY DRILL!

Seems like those on the left have also embraced this strategy -
"President Obama announced the end of a decades-old ban on oil and gas drilling along much of the U.S. Atlantic coast and northern Alaska on Wednesday, as part of an effort to reduce foreign imports and win support for an energy and climate bill"
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=125378223&ps=rs

[rushmc 18]

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>Got the same goal but we just have a more common sense way of achiving it

Yes, it was mentioned above - DRILL, BABY DRILL!

As opposed to spending an estimated 10 trillion in the carbon markets??

Damn that is a hard choice if you have to make them seperated but, one or the other seems to be the only choices when talking about it with cap n tax liberals

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,396]

>Damn that is a hard choice if you have to make them seperated but, one
>or the other seems to be the only choices when talking about it with cap n
>tax liberals

Why is that an either-or choice? You can't drill or mine your way to energy independence, nor will implementing cap and trade (or a straight carbon tax) do it alone. It will take efforts in several different areas to achieve our goals of not relying on foreign energy, providing energy for people here and not polluting the environment.

[rushmc 18]

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>Damn that is a hard choice if you have to make them seperated but, one
>or the other seems to be the only choices when talking about it with cap n
>tax liberals

Why is that an either-or choice? You can't drill or mine your way to energy independence, nor will implementing cap and trade (or a straight carbon tax) do it alone. It will take efforts in several different areas to achieve our goals of not relying on foreign energy, providing energy for people here and not polluting the environment.

With that I agree so Drill baby drill is still in place

It has to be a transition not an either or.......

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,396]

>With that I agree so Drill baby drill is still in place

And like I said, that's not a solution, although we will have to keep pumping oil for a while.

>It has to be a transition not an either or.......

Exactly. And while we make that transition, we have the currently producing wells to provide that ever-diminishing need for oil.

[rushmc 18]

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>With that I agree so Drill baby drill is still in place

And like I said, that's not a solution, although we will have to keep pumping oil for a while.

>It has to be a transition not an either or.......

Exactly. And while we make that transition, we have the currently producing wells to provide that ever-diminishing need for oil.

The point is there is currently NO solution. But it is not usually presented that way

IMO the trillions being spent on these wind farms is going to in the end be shown to be a huge waste of capital dollars that may have eventually been used to find something with more potential.

I am living with and around these things in huge numberes and they are looking more and more like a joke everyday. But they are in favor with the tree huggers and thier cronies in the government so we build them.

I personally dont want to be within one or two miles of the noisy bastards but soon here in Iowa I may not have a choice if I want to continue to live out in the rural areas.

But, they are being build for tax incentives and future carbon offsets trades should that mess come into being
A waste of money

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,396]

>The point is there is currently NO solution.

Of course there is a solution. We just don't want to implement it because oil is so cheap.

>IMO the trillions being spent on these wind farms is going to in the end be
>shown to be a huge waste of capital dollars that may have eventually been
>used to find something with more potential.

The opposite is generally true with wind. It is a very costly initial investment, but in the end you get free power for as long as you maintain the equipment. Over the life of the equipment, you see wind costs of 4 to 6 cents per kilowatt-hour, compared to 4.8-5.5 cents/kwhr for coal or 11-14 cents/kwhr for nuclear. (Again, biased heavily towards initial investment.)

If we want more power right now wind isn't the way to go. But if we want to plan for a future of energy independence it's a good investment.

>I am living with and around these things in huge numberes and they are
>looking more and more like a joke everyday.

Well, coal plants are even uglier.

>But they are in favor with the tree huggers and thier cronies in the
>government so we build them.

Uh, many treehuggers are protesting them like crazy:

"While the Obama Administration today dealt a blow to all of us who care deeply about preserving our most precious natural treasures - this fight is not over," said Audra Parker, president and CEO of the Alliance to Protect Nantucket Sound. "Litigation remains the option of last resort. However, when the federal government is intent on trampling the rights of Native Americans and the people of Cape Cod, we must act. We will not stand by and allow our treasured public lands to be marred forever by a corporate giveaway to private industrial energy developers."

Lawsuits will be filed on behalf of a coalition of environmental groups - including the Alliance to Protect Nantucket Sound, Three Bays Preservation, Animal Welfare Institute, Industrial Wind Action Group, Californians for Renewable Energy, Oceans Public Trust Initiative (a project of the International Marine Mammal Project of the Earth Land Institute), Lower Laguna Madre Foundation - against the federal Fish and Wildlife Service and Minerals Management Service for violations of the Endangered Species Act."

>I personally dont want to be within one or two miles of the noisy bastards

Better than being within one or two miles of a coal plant! Wind power won't give you emphysema - and at a mile they are quieter than trees.

[wmw999 2,120]

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I am living with and around these things in huge numberes and they are looking more and more like a joke everyday.

What makes them look like a joke to you?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rushmc 18]

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>The point is there is currently NO solution.

Of course there is a solution. We just don't want to implement it because oil is so cheap.

>IMO the trillions being spent on these wind farms is going to in the end be
>shown to be a huge waste of capital dollars that may have eventually been
>used to find something with more potential.

The opposite is generally true with wind. It is a very costly initial investment, but in the end you get free power for as long as you maintain the equipment. Over the life of the equipment, you see wind costs of 4 to 6 cents per kilowatt-hour, compared to 4.8-5.5 cents/kwhr for coal or 11-14 cents/kwhr for nuclear. (Again, biased heavily towards initial investment.)

If we want more power right now wind isn't the way to go. But if we want to plan for a future of energy independence it's a good investment.

>I am living with and around these things in huge numberes and they are
>looking more and more like a joke everyday.

Well, coal plants are even uglier.

>But they are in favor with the tree huggers and thier cronies in the
>government so we build them.

Uh, many treehuggers are protesting them like crazy:

"While the Obama Administration today dealt a blow to all of us who care deeply about preserving our most precious natural treasures - this fight is not over," said Audra Parker, president and CEO of the Alliance to Protect Nantucket Sound. "Litigation remains the option of last resort. However, when the federal government is intent on trampling the rights of Native Americans and the people of Cape Cod, we must act. We will not stand by and allow our treasured public lands to be marred forever by a corporate giveaway to private industrial energy developers."

Lawsuits will be filed on behalf of a coalition of environmental groups - including the Alliance to Protect Nantucket Sound, Three Bays Preservation, Animal Welfare Institute, Industrial Wind Action Group, Californians for Renewable Energy, Oceans Public Trust Initiative (a project of the International Marine Mammal Project of the Earth Land Institute), Lower Laguna Madre Foundation - against the federal Fish and Wildlife Service and Minerals Management Service for violations of the Endangered Species Act."

>I personally dont want to be within one or two miles of the noisy bastards

Better than being within one or two miles of a coal plant! Wind power won't give you emphysema - and at a mile they are quieter than trees.

NIMBY's are not the same as the tree huggers in the admin and gov.

And you mention maitenance on the wind generators. There are huge costs per KWH that will offset the production numbers you post. They are high maintenace and that is not going to change.

Free they are not. And the costs will be far greater than the intial investment dollars you posted about

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

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I am living with and around these things in huge numberes and they are looking more and more like a joke everyday.

What makes them look like a joke to you?

Wendy P.

The noise, the installation cost and the maintenace costs. (not to mention they are ugly when you are around them 24/7) They will (at this point) will not return the invenstment costs unless the price per KWH is raised signifcantly which, is the end goal after all

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[wmw999 2,120]

Noise and appearance I can understand.

Installation and maintenance -- well, they are notorious for being expensive up front, but (as Bill mentioned) potentially cheaper in the long run. As a lot of new technologies are until people figure out how to make them cheaper.

They won't pay for themselves in 2 years without incredible power prices. But in the long run, especially if the cost of other fuels goes up. If you consider only the next 10 years, it might not be such a great idea. But if you think that people might still want power in 100 years, then investing in some of the ways that they might get it besides oil and coal is probably a smart thing to do.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[billvon 2,396]

>NIMBY's are not the same as the tree huggers in the admin and gov.

Nor are they the same as the tree huggers who want to build nuclear plants, or push for research on nuclear fusion. Nevertheless, a great many environmental groups oppose wind turbines.

>And you mention maitenance on the wind generators. There are huge
>costs per KWH that will offset the production numbers you post.

They're pretty small actually. O+M costs on a 5 megawatt turbine run about 20% of the total per-kwhr cost, and maintenance/spare parts are about 25% of that. So maintenance will run around .25 cents/kwhr. Compare that to fuel costs for a coal plant, which run around 2.4 cents/kwhr.

>They are high maintenace and that is not going to change.

It already has.

> And the costs will be far greater than the intial investment dollars you
>posted about

What will the additional costs consist of?

[rushmc 18]

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>NIMBY's are not the same as the tree huggers in the admin and gov.

Nor are they the same as the tree huggers who want to build nuclear plants, or push for research on nuclear fusion. Nevertheless, a great many environmental groups oppose wind turbines.

>And you mention maitenance on the wind generators. There are huge
>costs per KWH that will offset the production numbers you post.

>They're pretty small actually. O+M costs on a 5 megawatt turbine run about 20% of the total per-kwhr cost, and maintenance/spare parts are about 25% of that. So maintenance will run around .25 cents/kwhr. Compare that to fuel costs for a coal plant, which run around 2.4 cents/kwhr.<

reply]

Are those numbers just for the turbines themselves?

By the way, I would like to see where you get your numbers

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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