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QuoteQuoteI personally saw this arrest as I was driving by on the way to breakfast Tuesday. I joined the crowd for a few minutes and participated in applauding the cops.
How did you know, while driving by, that these men were being arrested for being illegal immigrants?
They were brown, weren't they?
Lucky... 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteI personally saw this arrest as I was driving by on the way to breakfast Tuesday. I joined the crowd for a few minutes and participated in applauding the cops.
How did you know, while driving by, that these men were being arrested for being illegal immigrants?
First, their profile of a bunch of Mexicans in a long window van with 5 squad cars drew me to that conclusion; Yes, it was racial profiling by me.
Once I parked and joined the others I was informed that one of the cops mentioned it, this confirmed my profiling suspicions.
Furthermore, I recalled hearing a news release the night before where a similar van was stopped and some of the suspected illegals bailed. The ones they caught were confirmed illegals.
Racial profiling IS a form of racism.
Lucky... 0
QuoteQuoteQuote
QuoteIt seems as though few politicians take our borders seriously. There is an unknown agenda within the upper levels that I simply do not understand.
It's rather simple, cheap labor for the the right, and a clean social conscience for the left.
Now, that's closer to the truth. In state and national politics, 99% of the Right exists to serve the Corporate Owners of America. (Whereas for the Dems, that's only about, eh, 87%.) And illegal workers who work well below minimum wage, w/o bennies, and know how to STFU are good for business. And as Silent Cal said, what's good for business is good for America.
Only the Right won't be (indeed, cannot be) intellectually honest about it in public. Rather, it creates and funds "news" outlets like FoxNews and the Wall Street Journal to program conservative people (and not a few bigots) into thinking that their social outrage (and bigotry) makes a goddamn bit of difference. It's all sleight-of-hand: "Look at the birdie (while I f*** you up the ass)." The Left, on the other hand, is more honest about it: "Look, guys: they're here; they give us cheap goods at the store; deal with it."
If that's truly the case, why is Arizona doing something about it? Surely they have corporations there that would rather not see this succeed.
Neither the left nor right are honest with people and while they may employ separate tactics to accomplish nothing, they are both "f***(ing) you(us) up the ass"
Becuase this is a backwards, redneck state. We were the last state to adopt MLK day and that was only due to getting the Superbowl. Voters rejected it on the first vote, not sure if it was an executive deal or what to get it done.
Lucky... 0
QuoteI challenge anyone who opposes AZ's law to actually investigate it and see what it says.
I've read it.
Quoteit is pretty close to the same laws used to catch drug dealers and runners.
Ridiculous.
QuoteThey need probrable cause to ask someone for their papers.
ARS 11-1051
B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY
21 OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS
22 STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS
23 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,
24 WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE
25 PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
26 PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).
Challenge over, you lose. If I thought you understood to the slightest what the 4 standards of proof were, I get further into it.
QuoteBesides, they are illegals. Yes, they are here illegally. I think they deserve human rights in every way but I dont care at all what their political views are. You dont live here, you are not supposed to be here.
OK, and when legal Mexican-Americans, esp born Mexican-Americans, not the good white people like you and me, not the bad brown people get harrassed constantly due this lowest Reasonable Suspicion, or as you errantly call it, probable cause, is that ok with you too?
Oh and here's this so you can read and understand it: http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf
Also, you can even stop a brown person in a car, lowering the SOP (standard of proof) from Probable cause to reasonable suspicion in traffic violation cases. IOW's, brown people have their requirement for traffic stops at Reasonable Suspicion, whitey still at Probable Cause. Yea, nothing violative of that
. E. NOTWITHSTANDING ANY OTHER LAW, A PEACE OFFICER MAY LAWFULLY STOP
21 ANY PERSON WHO IS OPERATING A MOTOR VEHICLE IF THE OFFICER HAS REASONABLE
22 SUSPICION TO BELIEVE THE PERSON IS IN VIOLATION OF ANY CIVIL TRAFFIC LAW AND
23 THIS SECTION.
http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf
jgoose71 0
Quote
However, there are also a lot of myths flying around about illegals and their cost to the economy. The only govt. services available to illegals are emergent health care and education for children (many of whom ARE US citizens by birth). Most employed illegals have taxes withheld but don;t file returns to get rebates - the govt. makes a profit on them. They also have SS and Medicare taxes taken but again are not entitled to the services.
Most of the Illegals I have seen get paid $2 an hour under the table while working 18 hour days. The employer makes out off of their backs. I would like to see a poll that shows what % pays taxes and what % doesn't.
The Illegals that have a Social Security number and don't file returns that I know of don't because those SS numbers are stolen. Illegals have funded the identity theft trade really well over the last many years.
I really haven't heard of anything good coming from Illegal Immigrants. "Illegal" is not a race.
Its already been said, the left wants them to vote and not work, the right wants them to work and not vote, and America is cleaning up the shit storm in the middle. Its a problem that has to be dealt with soon. Any action right now is better than the no action the government is taking.
"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything
Life, the Universe, and Everything
QuoteQuoteI challenge anyone who opposes AZ's law to actually investigate it and see what it says.
I've read it.Quoteit is pretty close to the same laws used to catch drug dealers and runners.
Ridiculous.QuoteThey need probrable cause to ask someone for their papers.
ARS 11-1051
B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY
21 OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS
22 STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS
23 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,
24 WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE
25 PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
26 PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).
Challenge over, you lose. If I thought you understood to the slightest what the 4 standards of proof were, I get further into it.QuoteBesides, they are illegals. Yes, they are here illegally. I think they deserve human rights in every way but I dont care at all what their political views are. You dont live here, you are not supposed to be here.
OK, and when legal Mexican-Americans, esp born Mexican-Americans, not the good white people like you and me, not the bad brown people get harrassed constantly due this lowest Reasonable Suspicion, or as you errantly call it, probable cause, is that ok with you too?
Oh and here's this so you can read and understand it: http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf
Also, you can even stop a brown person in a car, lowering the SOP (standard of proof) from Probable cause to reasonable suspicion in traffic violation cases. IOW's, brown people have their requirement for traffic stops at Reasonable Suspicion, whitey still at Probable Cause. Yea, nothing violative of that.
E. NOTWITHSTANDING ANY OTHER LAW, A PEACE OFFICER MAY LAWFULLY STOP
21 ANY PERSON WHO IS OPERATING A MOTOR VEHICLE IF THE OFFICER HAS REASONABLE
22 SUSPICION TO BELIEVE THE PERSON IS IN VIOLATION OF ANY CIVIL TRAFFIC LAW AND
23 THIS SECTION.
http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf
Who said that "Illegal Immigrants" were all BROWN....They come in all colors and from other countries than just MEXICO....
I don't see anything wrong with asking ANYONE for there Identification. If you're not breaking the law it shouldn't matter if you have to show your ID/CITIZENSHIP.
How many people from the middle east are stopped and patted down for bombs??????????
This reminds me of the people that oppose public cameras being used by a city. They say that there privacy is being threatened and the only ones opposing are the ones breaking the law,,,,,,HEY PEOPLE You're in PUBLIC not PRIVATE,,,, and in PUBLIC any citizen can be made by the LAW to produce Identification...
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RonD1120 58
I received this hypothetical illustration this AM. It seems to describe the problem.
QuoteARIZONA GOT IT RIGHT, LET'S HELP THEM.
JOE vs. JOSE
You have two families: "Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal".
Both families have two parents, two children, and live in California .
Joe Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number and makes $25.00 per hour with taxes deducted.
Jose Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".
Ready? Now pay attention...
Joe Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000.00 per year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; Joe Legal now has
$31,231.00.
Jose Illegal: $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week, or $31,200.0 0 per year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes. Jose Illegal now has
$31,200.00.
Joe Legal pays medical and dental insurance with limited coverage for his family at $600.00 per month, or $7,200.00 per year. Joe Legal now
has $24,031.00.
Jose Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through the state and local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.
Joe Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps or welfare. Joe Legal pays $500.00 per month for food, or $6,000.00 per
year.. Joe Legal now has $18,031.00.
Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps and welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.
Joe Legal pays rent of $1,200.00 per month, or $14,400.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $9,631 .00.
Jose Illegal receives a $500.00 per month federal rent subsidy. Jose Illegal pays out that $500.00 per month, or $6,000.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $ 31,200.00.
Joe Legal pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 for insurance. Joe Legal now has $7,231.00.
Jose Illegal says, "We don't need no stinkin' insurance!" and still has $31,200.00.
Joe Legal has to make his $7,231.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, etc.
Jose Illegal has to make his $31,200.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, and what he sends out of the country every month..
Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after work.
Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.
Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same school. Joe Legal pays for his children's lunches while Jose Illegal's children get
a government sponsored lunch. Jose Illegal's children have an after school ESL program. Joe Legal's children go home.
Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire services, but Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.
Do you get it, now?
If you vote for or support any politician that supports illegal aliens...
You are part of the problem!
It's way PAST time to take a stand for America and Americans!
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
QuoteQuoteSome say it's racial profiling. Who gives a shit, as long as the end result gets them deported.
This kinda explains it all.
And when legal Mexican-Americans get stopped, keeep getting stopped I think that's ok for you too, right?
Sure, its OK with me. Sometimes you have to make sacrifices in this life. I agree with what Spock said; "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few".
You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime
Furthermore, I recalled hearing a news release the night before where a similar van was stopped and some of the suspected illegals bailed. The ones they caught were confirmed illegals.
Racial profiling IS a form of racism.
Call it what you want. I certainly am not a racist, but if you want to call me one it really doesn't matter.
I can't understand why people are so afraid of being called a racist. If that's what they are, this is America and they every right to be.
Furthermore, the majority of people in the US according to what I just read are in favor of Arizona's new law and want their States to enact similar laws.
You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime
QuoteDealing with those already here and working is not going to be a simple or inexpensive matter, regardless of what you may think.
I agree that it would not be simple or inexpensive but......
Just because it is not simple or expensive should not be a valid reason to not enforce laws, regardless of what you may think.
Coreece 190
QuoteI don't see anything wrong with asking ANYONE for there Identification. If you're not breaking the law it shouldn't matter if you have to show your ID/CITIZENSHIP.
And when legal Mexican-Americans get stopped, keeep getting stopped I think that's ok for you too, right?
Sure, its OK with me. Sometimes you have to make sacrifices in this life.
WOW...Just WOW!!!!
My heart is pounding, my palms are sweating, I feel as though my head is gonna explode!
I don't even know where to begin...
It's like throwing peas at a wall!!!
I'm far to emotional to respond accurately to this right now and I think it's gonna take some superior linguistic skills like those from the UK to put a dent in this one...
I think i'm gonna go puke now...
Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...
turtlespeed 212
I have no problem being pulled over and asked for ID. I actually think that the DUI checkpoints are a good idea, they are a nuisance and a pain in the keester, but I have no issue with it.
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun
tkhayes 126
there are a lot of 'ifs' in that hypothetical situation. One, you assume that illegals get all kinds of govt assistance and I doubt that is true, given that most of those services require many forms of identification and such.
Many, if not most agencies of that kind have tightened up their requirements and screening - (have you tried to renew a drivers license lately?)
While illegals have no place in this country, the federal government has the job to do, not the local militia with the swastikas on their arms......
Stopping people just because of what they look like to ask for ID is simply WRONG. What about the illegal UK, French, Hungarian people who all look 'white and normal'?
The problem is solved by securing the borders. The borders get secured by patrols and troops. The government pays for that through TAXES. No one (it seems) in this country is willing to pay TAXES to the government, even if it means getting REAL work done, yet most complain that the government is not doing a good enough job.
The problem is simple to solve. We have 100,000 troops in foreign countries when they could be here guarding our borders. But once again, America and its politicians cannot see the forest for the trees.
Many, if not most agencies of that kind have tightened up their requirements and screening - (have you tried to renew a drivers license lately?)
While illegals have no place in this country, the federal government has the job to do, not the local militia with the swastikas on their arms......
Stopping people just because of what they look like to ask for ID is simply WRONG. What about the illegal UK, French, Hungarian people who all look 'white and normal'?
The problem is solved by securing the borders. The borders get secured by patrols and troops. The government pays for that through TAXES. No one (it seems) in this country is willing to pay TAXES to the government, even if it means getting REAL work done, yet most complain that the government is not doing a good enough job.
The problem is simple to solve. We have 100,000 troops in foreign countries when they could be here guarding our borders. But once again, America and its politicians cannot see the forest for the trees.
Quotethere are a lot of 'ifs' in that hypothetical situation. One, you assume that illegals get all kinds of govt assistance and I doubt that is true, given that most of those services require many forms of identification and such.
--------------------------------------------------------------
TK,
They do indeed get all kinds of govt assistance. They have caused severe financial hardships for many communities around the US. They get medical care at the local hospitals, they send their kids to our schools. They "do not" pay their bills either.
What about the cost to incarcerate them in our jails? This costs me money and I am sick and tired of it.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Stopping people just because of what they look like to ask for ID is simply WRONG. What about the illegal UK, French, Hungarian people who all look 'white and normal'?
Illegal UK, French, Hungarians and those who look white are not prone to violence and do not fill our jails and take from society like the others. A racist statement? probably but I don't care, I can deal with the truth.
You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime
kallend 1,623
QuoteQuoteDealing with those already here and working is not going to be a simple or inexpensive matter, regardless of what you may think.
I agree that it would not be simple or inexpensive but......
Just because it is not simple or expensive should not be a valid reason to not enforce laws, regardless of what you may think.
Where did I write that it would be? Do pay attention, dear boy.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
kallend 1,623
QuoteQuotethere are a lot of 'ifs' in that hypothetical situation. One, you assume that illegals get all kinds of govt assistance and I doubt that is true, given that most of those services require many forms of identification and such.
--------------------------------------------------------------
TK,
They do indeed get all kinds of govt assistance. They have caused severe financial hardships for many communities around the US. They get medical care at the local hospitals, they send their kids to our schools. They "do not" pay their bills either.
What about the cost to incarcerate them in our jails? This costs me money and I am sick and tired of it.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Stopping people just because of what they look like to ask for ID is simply WRONG. What about the illegal UK, French, Hungarian people who all look 'white and normal'?
Illegal UK, French, Hungarians and those who look white are not prone to violence and do not fill our jails and take from society like the others. A racist statement? probably but I don't care, I can deal with the truth.
Good, you'll be willing to pay more taxes to do a better job of securing the borders.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Quoteand in PUBLIC any citizen can be made by the LAW to produce Identification...
This is simply untrue.
"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"
This kinda explains it all.
And when legal Mexican-Americans get stopped, keeep getting stopped I think that's ok for you too, right?
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