Baby boy survives for nearly two days after abortion

[Andy9o8 0]

I'm a moderate-to-lib, and a Dem. Always have been. But I'm also a father of two. And when my wife became pregnant with our first, the issue of abortion became as clear as mud. I'm very conflicted about it: I think it ends a life (particularly after the 1st trimester), I think it's an ethical tragedy, especially after a significant amount of foetal development; and yet I feel it ultimately should be legally the choice of the mother. Very conflicted.

Anyhow, in all fairness, I think this story should be seen and discussed.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/7646540/Baby-boy-survives-for-nearly-two-days-after-abortion.html

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Baby boy survives for nearly two days after abortion

A baby boy abandoned by doctors to die after a botched abortion was found alive nearly a day later.


By Simon Caldwell
Published: 4:29PM BST 28 Apr 2010

The 22-week infant died one day later in intensive care at a hospital in the mother's home town of Rossano in southern Italy.

The mother, pregnant for the first time, had opted for an abortion after prenatal scans suggested that her baby was disabled.

However, the infant survived the procedure, carried out on Saturday in the Rossano Calabro hospital, and was left by doctors to die.

He was discovered alive the following day – some 20 hours after the operation – by Father Antonio Martello, the hospital chaplain, who had gone to pray beside his body.

He found that the baby, wrapped in a sheet with his umbilical cord still attached, was moving and breathing.

The priest raised the alarm and doctors immediately arranged for the infant to be taken to a specialist neo-natal unit at the neighbouring Cosenza hospital, where he died on Monday morning.

Italian police are investigating the case for "homicide" because infanticide is illegal in Italy.

The law means that doctors have had an obligation to try to preserve the life of the child once he had survived the abortion.

[bluesilver30 0]

22 weeks... damn. is it common for people to abort that late in the pregnancy? aborition is an issue i try to avoid in political discussions, and as a result of never knowning anyone to go through with one i don't know much about the specifics. But, damn, isn't it a bit late by that point?

[rushmc 18]

A topic where you and I are very much in agreement.

While I do not believe in free for all abortions I also do not feel that I have the right to make that decsion for others

What I have settled with (for lack of a better description) is to fight to keep tax dollars from paying for. Worth anything? I doubt it

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Channman 2]

Not having read through the story, my first thoughts were the Doctor and or mother returning to finish the job.

But after careful review, it appears the initial attempt at terminating this boy's life was finally successful. The doctors that made the effort to save his life, must have been at lunch during the time a doctor was trying to take his life.

[Darius11 12]

I am with the others who have posted. I don’t pretend to know when a humane life is a humane life, and would love to protect life. At the same time I think it is a personal choice that one should make for them self.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[wmw999 2,114]

22 weeks is very late for an abortion. Especially if the diagnosis is not fucked up, and especially if the abortion is fucked up.

At 22 weeks some doctors are calling the baby premature, others stillborn. The chances for devastating problems due to prematurity are high, but the science of keeping really premature babies alive is improving.

I'm definitely pro-choice. But that's really late, and and to me, into the time where it's too late to change your mind.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[sundevil777 93]

I suppose the lesson to be learned for abortion providers is to make sure to kill the baby before it comes out. It would be nasty to kill it after it comes out, much better, and completely different when done before...NOT!

Pro-abortion activists want to have no restrictions, anti-abortion activists want complete restriction. This really awful type of case wouldn't happen if there were some agreed upon middle ground. Neither side would be happy, but they aren't happy now.

If this instance is going to have to be accepted as OK - just something that must be expected/tolerated, then starting the abortion procedure after birth should be allowed. There is no important difference.

The crap I hear about "it is my body...", is bogus because there are a lot of things that we are prevented from doing to our own bodies.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[headoverheels 291]

90 days (13 weeks) is the legal limit in Italy, if I understand correctly. I have no idea whether cases of deformity, etc. allow for later terminations.

[rnicks 0]

While this is a terrible story, its also very interesting. In the US, a fetus is not considered viable until 23 weeks. If a baby is born prematurely at 22 weeks, nothing will be done even if the parents had wanted medical intervention. 23 1/7 weeks is the cutoff for calling the NICU team for deliveries. It terrible when they don't die immediately, but it does happen. So its very interesting they tried to revive it in the first place.

[Coreece 189]

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He was discovered alive the following day – some 20 hours after the operation – by Father Antonio Martello, the hospital chaplain, who had gone to pray beside his body.

Wow...what a strong little fella...makes me wonder what he could've survived (accomplished/overcome) had he a chance...even being disabled.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Coreece 189]

If I may...I would like to name this little guy Gioventù Forte.

Man...i'm bout to cry...

This is murder!

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[councilman24 36]

Do I wish abotions didn't happen? Yes. The best anti abortion stance is supporting pregnancy prevention through sex ed, contraception ed, morning after pill, etc.

But, I don't thinks its any of my (read society's) business to tell a woman what to do. It's between a woman, her doctor, her religion, and hopefully the father. Everyone else should stay out of it.

And I'm glad my wife and I didn't have to consider the decision the woman in the story had to make. I also have relatives who have had to make that decision, with an accurate neonatal diagnosis of inability to survive.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[RonD1120 58]

Quote

I'm a moderate-to-lib, and a Dem. Always have been. But I'm also a father of two. And when my wife became pregnant with our first, the issue of abortion became as clear as mud. I'm very conflicted about it: I think it ends a life (particularly after the 1st trimester), I think it's an ethical tragedy, especially after a significant amount of foetal development; and yet I feel it ultimately should be legally the choice of the mother. Very conflicted.

Anyhow, in all fairness, I think this story should be seen and discussed.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/7646540/Baby-boy-survives-for-nearly-two-days-after-abortion.html

***Baby boy survives for nearly two days after abortion

Like so many of our social issues, emotions are unavoidable and most often paramount.

First, this story does not read like an abortion but more like a premature delivery. Following the birth, a viable life form was abandoned. That, to me, is unconscionable.

As you know, I am pro-life and do not believe that abortion is humane at the onset.

Be that as it may, the Italian law allowed for abortion but does not allow infanticide. Therefore, the doctor in charge of the abortion is legally responsible for the death of the premature baby. He should be prosecuted.

That's how I see it.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[rnicks 0]

This procedure was done after finding out the fetus had medical issues probably from a routine ultrasound at 20 weeks. Therefore the procedure was not actually an abortion but an MIP (medical interrupted pregnancy). The result is the same but the actual procedure is severely different.

Also, a 22 week infant is NOT viable so they wouldn't have intubated anyway (see my previous post) so the doctor did not preform infantacide. He should receive some kind of reprimand from the hospital for negligence but not charged with murder.

ETA: After thinking about it, I'm not quite sure if negligence is the right word. Possibly incompetence, but only hearing the media side of it (think how wrong they get it in skydiving) I'm not quite sure. A mix of incompetence and negligence maybe.

These things are not always black and white. I have seen some VERY strange things in the 6 years I worked labor and delivery.

[rnicks 0]

And another thing to ponder:

There is a whole group of people responsible for this, not just the OB. Somehow it was missed by ultrasound that the fetus still had a heartbeat after the MIP. Likely the doctor knew the baby was alive at birth (how could you not). Normal procedure after that would be the doctor would leave after the delivery and let the nurse take care of the dying infant and console the parents. The doctor should have came back and actually declared but in reality that rarely happens. It was likely the nurse that disposed of the infant.

Remember that nurses do not work FOR doctors. They are independent and have their own license. They are just as responsible as the doctor (if the above scenario played out like described).

[Lucky... 0]

Wait a minute, as a liberal you're supposed to be lock-stepped like our counterparts and be for everythign supposedly liberal.

I'm where you are, mod top left, and am also very against abortion as a principle, for abortion rights as practice.

It's ashame that it becomes politicized and people join sides and pull, rather than weigh the issue alone.

The very party that often does things that are sociopathic all of the sudden care about abortions, this is due to the convergence between the fiscal GOP good ole boys and the moral right; they have inherent conflict.

What should happen to satisfy all parties with equal compromise is:

- Single payer HC

- Make abortions illegal other than for mother's medical emergency

- Gov paid condoms, other BC, tubiligations, vasectomies and mandates fo rsex education in high schools.

If it's all about people, which both sides clammer, lefties with HC and abortion with righties, then let's come together and satisfy all with the minor issues being compromised. The only people left out would be the greedy fiscal GOP righties, the LImbaugh-lover types. The moral right would then depart from them and join the left, as this would be the group who are pro-people (anti-abortion and for HC). Do I see it happening? No, because of Roe v Wade, you can't wheel/deal with stare decisis. But look at it, folks, I think all non-sociopaths are for people and to propose 2 simultaneous objectives, no abortion and HC for all, as well as responsible sex education/prevention, it's a win-win-win for all but the Limbaugh types. Right now the moralists are stuck being married to them, but as they see all the gay scandals from the right, I think they throw a disgusted punch to the Repub candidates.

[Andy9o8 0]

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- Make abortions illegal other than for mother's medical emergency

Not a chance that represents compromise. That was the hard-line, conservative aspect of old-style anti-abortion criminal statutes that were effectively invalidated in Roe v. Wade.

[Lucky... 0]

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- Make abortions illegal other than for mother's medical emergency

Not a chance that represents compromise. That was the hard-line, conservative aspect of old-style anti-abortion criminal statutes that were effectively invalidated in Roe v. Wade.

Sure it is, how is the whole list of things not compromise? Wasn't the list more like abortions illegal except:

- Rape

- Incest

- Mother's medical

That is such a crock to have the 1st two, as a fetus conceived as a result of rape or incest is still a human to be, using their logic. I think the old school list stupidly comprised all 3.

But it will never happen, I was illustrating if we had common sense in legislation.