Discovery of life outside earth and religion.

[rehmwa 2]

Well, I recall the supercomputer calculating pi out to, like, FOREVER number of digits and finally it resolved to just 1's and 0's and when we made them into a square grid they actually DREW A CIRCLE

random chance? I think not



(the 3 of you that will get this reference immediately - you know who you are - give the others a chance to recall where they saw it)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Shotgun 1]

Quote

Would your view of religion change if NASA were to discover life (microbial) in outer solar system.
How about if they were to discover another Earth like planet.

I don't think so. My view of religion doesn't seem to have anything to do with whether extraterrestrial life exists or not. But who knows....

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Due to the great availability of supporting material, the only sensible conclusion is that your misunderstand is willful and deliberate.

Like your willful and deliberate ignoring of the words "very simple summation", you mean?

Quote

If you have to misrepresent the theory to argue against it, you have already lost. Try getting a real understanding of the big bang theory then checking back in.

Get a real understanding of the Bible and check back in - specifically, provide the chapter and verse where it states there was NOTHING before the heavens and the earth were created.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[zuluguy 0]

any form of alien civilization (intelligent life) would be far from similar to our own. Significant number of stars in our galaxy are binary or even trinary star systems. For them to find anything in common with our solar system would again be human arrogance to assume that we are some how placed in the cosmic drama and have the central roles somehow defined by God.

It will be hard for some fraction of the folks to come to terms that we are due to a series of accidents for cherish for what you are right now for you won't be able to when you are not around cause you cease to exist.

[VTmotoMike08 0]

Nice backpedling. Another poster misrepresented the big bang theory as saying that something came from nothing. Then you reinforced it. So unless "very simple summation" = "exact opposite of what it really says" then you really don't understand the big bang, do you?

I'm well aware that nothing in the Bible excludes life outside of Earth. And as far as total knowledge of the Bible, I bet I've got you beat there too, although I don't really care. 18 years of forced Christian indoctrination 6 days a week and I guarentee there is not a lot in the Bible that I haven't heard. I know I've got the major points down. Fortunately, I don't just accept everything I am told.

[quade 3]

Quote

Because it would indicate a remarkable level of similarity between our cultures.

Perhaps so, but still proves nothing about god.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billvon 2,396]

>Perhaps so, but still proves nothing about god.

Right. But it would indeed "rock the world" and upset a lot of our current beliefs on how sentient beings perceive the universe they live in.

[champu 1]

Quote

Quote

They aren't finding many (only one system so far according to the report I heard) where the gas giants are in the outer orbits that would allow the life-supporting planets to exist.

Even disregarding the selection bias though, one out of 450 planetary systems suitable for earthlike life would still equates to a simply mind-boggling number of hospitable planets in just one galaxy, let alone the known universe.

I think you mean two out of 450 planetary systems.

Quote

What do you all think would happen to human way of life and thinking if suddenly there were big alien ships over Earth or when some non-Earth civilization with far greater science/tech/mind level would contact us?

1. Would people, faced with idea that we are definitely not alone in the Universe, stop to do all stupid, selfish things, stop being "profit-oriented-earth destroying" beings, and turn to more "Star Trek" utopian society?

2. Or it would be more like District 9? Let`s put the aliens into concentration camps and let`s try to get their technology to get military leverage? Preferably all organized by large multinational corporations for (fun) and profit.

I bet solution #2... (maybe without camps, but multicorps, profit and weapons for sure)

For better or for worse, the same facets of evolution that allow for the emergence of an intelligence capable of interstellar communication or travel will tend to produce highly competitive beings. A utopian end-game of peace in perpetuity after a millennia an ages-long struggle against natural selection does not seem very likely to me.

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

Quote

Quote

They aren't finding many (only one system so far according to the report I heard) where the gas giants are in the outer orbits that would allow the life-supporting planets to exist.

Even disregarding the selection bias though, one out of 450 planetary systems suitable for earthlike life would still equates to a simply mind-boggling number of hospitable planets in just one galaxy, let alone the known universe.

I think you mean two out of 450 planetary systems.

Hah, yes indeed. Forest, trees and all that

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

Quote

Quote

If an alien civilization had not just religious teachings, but if they were nearly identical to some or all of what is taught on earth, I think that would rock the world. Of course it is just a hypothetical, but this thread is about a hypothetical.

Why on earth would it?

Big dude made everything, some kind of afterlife, rules you need to follow to get in... fairly simple concepts, easy to understand why some humans or aliens would think of it.

Can't you imagine there being much more significant parallels?

Not seriously, no.

But if it was the case then yes, I imagine many people would jump all over it. Of course, if there were even the merest superficial parallels then many people would jump over it with much the same intensity.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kallend 1,623]

Quote

Quote

The best explanation that we have for this is evolution. Invoking god to solve the infinite regress presented above is, IMO, a cop out and a non-answer. Saying "I don't understand, it must be magic (i.e. deity)!" is pretty silly.

Let me get this straight. You believe first there was nothing and then there was something. Something came from nothing. Sounds like faith to me.

Sounds like quantum mechanics to me. No faith needed.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

Quote

Quote

The best explanation that we have for this is evolution. Invoking god to solve the infinite regress presented above is, IMO, a cop out and a non-answer. Saying "I don't understand, it must be magic (i.e. deity)!" is pretty silly.

Let me get this straight. You believe first there was nothing and then there was something. Something came from nothing. Sounds like faith to me.

Sounds like quantum mechanics to me. No faith needed.

I think it's improbably probable.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

So far, you've offered no understanding of the BB theory.

Must be a 'brane man.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Guest]

Quote

Would your view of religion change if NASA were to discover life (microbial) in outer solar system.
How about if they were to discover another Earth like planet.
Its almost looking positive, with 400 + planets discovered and counting.
How would you reconcile with life outside earth and religion.

Carl Sagan both hated and feared people with religious (read: Judeo-Christian) convictions, so much so that he portrayed them as psychotics in "Contact" (yes, I read the book).

To this day, that still annoys me, along with a lot of other bullshit he got away with in his lifetime.

However, Professor Mary Schweitzer would likely disagree, already having battled with silly "Young-Earth Creationists" over her discovery of soft tissue in T-Rex bones from the Cretaceous period (68m years ago). Please see also Wikipedia, and especially "Schweitzer's Dangerous Discovery".

Prof. Schweitzer is a Christian, yet she is a scientist, and can see with her own eyes, and can think and reason. What a concept!

In short, I do not believe that anyone with more than a couple of brain cells to rub together would consider such findings of extraterrestrial life to be some kind of "threat" to their faith (not Jews and Christians, for the most part, anyway. However, there is an Abrahamic sect which shall go unnamed here that is quite reactionary about damn near anything, and would likely nuke the world in order to keep their so-called 'faith' from being threatened - sorry, couldn't resist a poke at the world's biggest cult of death).
.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[DannHuff 0]

Quote

Another poster misrepresented the big bang theory as saying that something came from nothing.

So we can understand, can you explain, in your own words, what you believe on how it all began?

[VTmotoMike08 0]

Quote

Quote

Another poster misrepresented the big bang theory as saying that something came from nothing.

So we can understand, can you explain, in your own words, what you believe on how it all began?

Nope, I'm not really interested in restating what is better said by experts in that field. Plenty of great books are available on the subject if you are interested. The point is that if you think the big bang says something came from nothing, you need to go back to school and ask for your money back, because the educational system has obviously failed you.

[DannHuff 0]

Quote

Nope, I'm not really interested in restating what is better said by experts in that field.

Well then we wont know whether you have an understanding or simply have blind faith in someone else's theories.

[Shotgun 1]

Quote

Carl Sagan both hated and feared people with religious (read: Judeo-Christian) convictions, so much so that he portrayed them as psychotics in "Contact" (yes, I read the book).

To this day, that still annoys me, along with a lot of other bullshit he got away with in his lifetime.

A lot of authors have portrayed religious people in a rather negative light. Personally, I am glad that writers can "get away with" expressing their personal opinions (whether pro- or anti- religion).

[kallend 1,623]

Quote

Quote

Nope, I'm not really interested in restating what is better said by experts in that field.

Well then we wont know whether you have an understanding or simply have blind faith in someone else's theories.

Irony score 10/10

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[wmw999 2,120]

There are a lot of things I count on that I don't fully understand. Internal combustion engines (I have a basic understanding, but I'd have to dig into a book to rebuild one). Transistors. The Bernoulli principle. That the food I eat is reasonably safe and free of poisons. That the vehicles I ride in are reasonably safe.

That doesn't mean blind faith. That means that I've done some learning, and trust some sources. Every single one of us does that. Some folks are willing to concede that Stephen Hawking (who is smarter than I am) knows more than they do about the Big Bang theory. Others are not.

One thing to consider -- isn't theology just about the most arrogant study there is? This is the study that says "we understand how God, the supreme, all-knowing, and unknowable, thinks, and what he wants."

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[RackJR 0]

Quote

Well then we wont know whether you have an understanding or simply have blind faith in someone else's theories.

How would this make a difference to the conversation? He understands it well enough to point out an obvious misrepresentation.

None of us probably fully understand the current model of the BB. To completely grasp it is most likely beyond all but a few theoretical physicists. That doesn't mean we have blind faith. None of us completely understand gravity, but it can't be called blind faith to believe it's real. The analogies are endless.

The religious minded seem to never tire of misrepresenting scientific theory, as if these continued diversions will prop up their beliefs. If you think the BB theory says something came from nothing, google it and then tell us where that is. The truth is that no scientific person is ever, ever going to claim that something came from nothing. Most high school physics students understand the conservation of mass.

It seems to me that the bible says that everything needs a creator, and everything came from god. Of course the obvious and tired next question is "who created god". Maybe spend some time on that one. See if your answer doesn't exactly mirror "something came from nothing". Whatever it is, it will only prove that you have no interest in finding out a scientific answer. It will mean that you read a 2000 year old book (or more likely just listened to someone who you believe read it), found a terribly simplistic answer to a complex question, and stuck your head in the sand. I'm very grateful that a lot of people don't find that to be enough, and they continue to seek greater understanding. When science has answered this question, what will you choose to misrepresent next?

Say what you mean. Do what you say.

[VTmotoMike08 0]

Quote

Quote

Nope, I'm not really interested in restating what is better said by experts in that field.

Well then we wont know whether you have an understanding or simply have blind faith in someone else's theories.

OK, so only personal origional research is valid. Upon birth, everyone should set out to learn everything about the natural world themselves or their knowledge is dismissed as "blind faith"


If you require to know 100% of every detail on the origion of the universe, the only stance that you can take is agnosticism. However, that does not mean that everything else is on equal footing.

I dismiss creationism because it totally disregards the scientific method, gives up on examining new evidence and says "give up on learning, just accept that God made everything!" I accept the big bang theory and evolution because it uses human observation and investigation, and everything is up for scrutiny. Even if it was wrong, the methodology is still leaps and bounds ahead of creationism's "blind faith". I would gladly change my views if presented evidence to the contrary. Creationism leaves no such room for improvement.

Belief in an ancient book full of contradictions is "blind faith". The only faith (probably not the best word choice here) that my views require is hope in human inginuity to eventually fill in the details in our current theories

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

Quote

Nope, I'm not really interested in restating what is better said by experts in that field.

Well then we wont know whether you have an understanding or simply have blind faith in someone else's theories.

Dude, don't be dissin' Blind Faith.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2xRYw3DmRY

[kallend 1,623]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Nope, I'm not really interested in restating what is better said by experts in that field.

Well then we wont know whether you have an understanding or simply have blind faith in someone else's theories.

Dude, don't be dissin' Blind Faith.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2xRYw3DmRY

I'd like Cream with that, please.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

Carl Sagan both hated and feared people with religious convictions, so much so that he portrayed them as psychotics in "Contact" (yes, I read the book).

To this day, that still annoys me....

there is an Abrahamic sect which shall go unnamed here that is quite reactionary about damn near anything, and would likely nuke the world in order to keep their so-called 'faith' from being threatened

Sweet.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?