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funjumper101

Thank God for Republican Mine Operators

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Anyone been following the news on the coal mine explosion that has killed 25 miners for sure, likely a full total of 29 miners?

The mine is operated by Massey Coal, with a President who is on the BOD of the US Chamber of Commerce. He is a leading fund raiser for the Republican party. This same CEO paid three million dollars to force out a State Supreme Court justice that would have ruled against Massey Coal. Their bought and paid for SSCJ was the deciding vote in favor of Massey coal. The same company that had one of their top executives put on the US Mine Safety board BY RECESS APPOINTMENT, by the previous administration. He couldn't get confirmed after several tries, so he got appointed. He was blocked for CAUSE, not politics.

The mine is a non-union mine. Massey Coal has fought tooth and nail against unionizing any of their mines. Their safety record is among the worst in the industry.

Good thing they got their folks on the safety board and minimized oversight of their operations. They get the fines reduced regularly and operate as though the fines for safety violations are simply a CODB and a hassle, instead of something that really matters.

The Republican goal of minimizing regulatory intervention in business operations has been a STELLAR success, for them.

Their business operations have actually killed multiple people several times in the past 30 years. Their last major fatal event was in 2006. A mine with bad ventilation caught fire and two workers burned to death. Sound familiar? It should. Bad ventilation is what caused the explosion that killed the 29 workers.

Government regulation works REALLY well most of the time.
You can go buy infant formula (made in the USA) and have a reasonable expectation that it is good for your kid.
You can go to a lumberyard and buy structural construction materials that will have met specific engineering requirements so that what you build with these materials wil produce predictable results.
You can go to any gas station anywhere and purchase fuel that will meet government standards and can be run in your car without blowing up the motor.

The facts of government regulation are very much contrary to the republican mantra that started with the horrendous presidency of Ronald Reagan. That scumbag said the "The scariest words in the english language are "I'm from the government and I'm here to help". Making terrorists out of own government. Totally inexcusable. The rescums jumped on the bandwagon and we ended up in this current economic disaster because of them.
The lax oversight of the mining indutry is directly responsible for the deaths of the miners. Are you Republicans all proud of yourselves? Or do you feel shame, as you should? I feel shame that we, the people, let our fellow citizens down so badly by allowing mine safety to be such a low priority.

Rachel Maddow has done an excellent job of covering the back story on this.

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Congratulations on politicizing the deaths of 29 individuals whose jobs are inherently dangerous. On average, this line of work kills about 80 people per year, and injures tens-of-thousands each year. http://www.msha.gov/MSHAINFO/FactSheets/MSHAFCT2.HTM

Are you saying that union miners don't get killed doing their job? What about the Sago Mine incident in 2006...UMWA...

But, don't let that dampen your union pride in seeing the deaths of those that do very difficult work.
So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

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Congratulations on politicizing the deaths of 29 individuals whose jobs are inherently dangerous. On average, this line of work kills about 80 people per year, and injures tens-of-thousands each year. http://www.msha.gov/MSHAINFO/FactSheets/MSHAFCT2.HTM

.




All the more reasons that the mining companies shouldn't be able to buy the regulators.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Congratulations on politicizing the deaths of 29 individuals whose jobs are inherently dangerous. On average, this line of work kills about 80 people per year, and injures tens-of-thousands each year. http://www.msha.gov/MSHAINFO/FactSheets/MSHAFCT2.HTM

Are you saying that union miners don't get killed doing their job? What about the Sago Mine incident in 2006...UMWA...

But, don't let that dampen your union pride in seeing the deaths of those that do very difficult work.



Congratulations on keeping up your credentials as a "right wing conservative".

That means you are one of the ones who doesn't give a fuck about WHY mining is so dangerous. You are perfectly willing to accept that a dangerous industry can be made MUCH MORE SO by avoiding appropriate government regulation and oversight, as demonstrated by Massey Coal.

Damn fucking right it is political. 29 people dying in a mine that was known to be operated dangerously, and allowed to do so due to the POLITICAL POWER of the CEO of the company.

It is political, and you should be horrified You should not making excuses for the miserable pieces of shit who run that company, and the weak regulation that your kind of politicians implement when they have power.

You lost a leg to politics. Have you forgotten?
How about those WMDs that didn't ever exist at all? You willingly participated in a premeditated war of aggression, over something that WASN"T TRUE, were maimed for life, and still don't get it at all. It is ALL politics. The scale is what changes. Innocent victims like yourself don't matter at all to the right wing scumbags you support. You were, and are, totally expendable to them. We, the USA, killed over a million people, drove millions more into refugee camps, and established a ISLAMIC RELIGIOUS government in place of a secular dictatorship, aka, our former best friend in the area. That is one hell of an accomplishment we pulled off, isn't it? We cut taxes in a time of "war", and borrowed and spent a trillion dollars, and counting, on this excellent adventure. How much health care could have been paid for with that trillion dollars?

It is all politics. Right wing sheeple can kiss my ass if you don't like having your nose rubbed in it.

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Coal mines are just like dropzones - there will always be fatalities. Coal miners and skydivers both know the risks associated with their participation. Blaming Republicans for this accident is a real stretch.....
(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only

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Why stop at just blaming Republicans?
Hell, let's go all the way in true Dem fashion and shut down the mines because they are just too dangerous. NO BLOOD FOR COAL!!

Sure, it may have been the fault of the people you say it was. But you can't ignore the fact that Dems sat back and let it happen.
HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

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Coal mines are just like dropzones - there will always be fatalities. Coal miners and skydivers both know the risks associated with their participation. Blaming Republicans for this accident is a real stretch.....



But the risks can be minimized if people follow the rules, which have been written in blood.

In this case it seems a politically connected company had a record of safety rules violations.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Coal mines are just like dropzones - there will always be fatalities. Coal miners and skydivers both know the risks associated with their participation. Blaming Republicans for this accident is a real stretch.....



Bull.

This is the attitude that was prevalent in all industries in the 1800's.The same timgs was said of mining in general a generation ago. Now, most accident in mines are due to trips and falls, something common across all heavy industry. UG coal does NOT have to be that dangerous. There are risks, but there is also technology to help mitigate it. I think some serious issues will come out of this investigation, if it's conducted by truly independent parties. MSHA's behavior in dealing with the countless infractions Massey was cited for is odd to say the least: I have seen many open pit mines elsewhere in the US shut down until they rectify serious situations, but never Massey mines. Good ole Blankenship's money was most certainly used for more than corporate jets.
Remster

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In this case it seems a politically connected company had a record of safety rules violations.



Gee. The government regulators had numerous citations against this mine. And the government did nothing.

Far out. Government regulators can and often are bought. That's why the government is so trustworthy - because they aren't in it for themselves. How could this happen?

Side note: the federal government is, at this time, only aggressively seeking fines. Big fines for such situations as seen with this mine. Huge fines because they want more money for their operating budget.

There is an unintended consequence of this - companies will fight these fines, because fixing the problem won't lower the fine and in many administrative actions can be used against the company. The government presents a disincentive for a company to fix the problem.

Of course, this is not a dem v rep issue. It is not a union v nonunion issue. Sure, you can politicize it. Hey, we can even make this a racial issue - "company fails to protect white men."

This is an issue of a company putting people in danger - explosions in coal mines typically mean a serious failure in procedures. But when all these safety violations are mentioned - and the regulators didn't just shut the place down until the problems got fixed.

Why not? Why not? Is it because the government is more interested in generating fine money that actually ensuring moine safety?


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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It's wishful thinking that new/increased technology can keep coal miners 100% safe. That's like saying AAD's will prevent all fatalities. What about human error? What about the unpredictable movement of the earth when drilling underground?

I have lived in West Virginia for nearly 40 years. There were two earthquakes here right around the time of the accident and some are questioning a possible link. I wouldn't hang the Massey CEO just yet.....

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This is the attitude that was prevalent in all industries in the 1800's


(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only

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Damn only 4 posts to go from Coal Mining to the Iraq war. That has gotta be some kind of record or something.



Right wing conservative politics are the cause of BOTH issues.

The connection is quite obvious.



It is Bush's fault
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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Agreed. Did a little googling and found the West Virginia Coal Mine Board of Health & Safety minutes for the 2 day meeting in September of 2009.

http://www.wvminesafety.org/boards/September09.pdf

Doesn't seem like these good 'ol boys accomplished a whole lot in 2 days. Maybe there was faux lesbian sex going on nearby.
Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

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Remote mining methods exist.

Teleoperated equipment exists.

Centrally controlled gas/dust monitoring systems exist.

I've designed underground stopes. if you cant mine it safely, you dont include it in your reserves, and you dont mine it until you can find a way to safely mine it. If it costs too much money to mine safely, you either dont mine it at all, or you wait till prices go up to mine with with different methods / technologies.

Saying "coal mining is dangerous, and thats all there is to say" is a complete cop out.
Remster

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>It's wishful thinking that new/increased technology can keep coal
>miners 100% safe. That's like saying AAD's will prevent all fatalities.

More like saying "skydiving is dangerous, and it's because of human error. AAD's, square reserves, reliable harnesses, safe airplanes, good exit separation and landing patterns won't change that, so why bother with them? They're expensive and you could get struck by lightning anyway."

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Damn only 4 posts to go from Coal Mining to the Iraq war. That has gotta be some kind of record or something.



Right wing conservative politics are the cause of BOTH issues.

The connection is quite obvious.



It is Bush's fault



THe last major mine accident happened on Bush's watch - he was blamed

this mine accident happened on Obama's watch - Bush is blamed

THere's poetry in that

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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Sure, you can politicize it. Hey, we can even make this a racial issue - "company fails to protect white men."



Last time I was in a coal mine everyone (myself included) was BLACK from head to foot.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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No one is saying that technology can't make mining safer.....DUH! I'm just saying that there will always be deaths, so don't act so alarmed next time. Some of you guys will argue that 2+2 doesn't equal 4.....
(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only

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I'm just saying that there will always be deaths, so don't act so alarmed next time.



I know several mining company VP's, mine managers, etc, and I can tell you that if any one of them said what you just said within earshot of any company directors, they'd be fired on the spot.

Guess WV is special... :S


EDIT: PS: WTF does this have to do with political leanings?
Remster

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Well, I'm not a mine manager....so I guess I can say these things. I'm just a realist, I guess.

Not sure what this has to do w/ political leanings. Ask the OP.
(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only

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Well, I'm not a mine manager....so I guess I can say these things. I'm just a realist, I guess.

Not sure what this has to do w/ political leanings. Ask the OP.



yeah... the political comment I made wasnt directed at ya....
Remster

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Damn only 4 posts to go from Coal Mining to the Iraq war. That has gotta be some kind of record or something.



Right wing conservative politics are the cause of BOTH issues.

The connection is quite obvious.



It is Bush's fault



THe last major mine accident happened on Bush's watch - he was blamed

this mine accident happened on Obama's watch - Bush is blamed

THere's poetry in that



Bush's fault?

The only one who said that is Marc, who is well known to be a right wing conservative whose writings project a world view much like Lush Rimjob's view of the world.

Right wingnut conservatives apparently can't tell the difference between extremely stupid sarcasm, and reality.

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