Well done america, what a great role model you are...

[rhys 0]

Click here to see innocent civilians getting murdered...


" "> yahoo news story

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WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Classified U.S. military video showing a 2007 attack by Apache helicopters that killed a dozen people in Baghdad, including two Reuters news staff, was released on Monday by a group that promotes leaking to fight government and corporate corruption.

The group, WikiLeaks, told a news conference in Washington that it acquired encrypted video of the July 12, 2007, attack from military whistleblowers and had been able to view and investigate it after breaking the encryption code.

A U.S. defence official, speaking on condition of anonymity, confirmed that the video and audio were authentic.

Major Shawn Turner, a spokesman for U.S. Central Command, said an investigation of the incident shortly after it occurred found that U.S. forces were not aware of the presence of the news staffers and thought they were engaging armed insurgents.

"We regret the loss of innocent life, but this incident was promptly investigated and there was never any attempt to cover up any aspect of this engagement," Turner said.

The helicopter gunsight video, with an audio track of conversation between the fliers, made public for the first time a stark view of one bloody incident in the seven-year war in Iraq.

It showed an aerial view of a group of men moving about a square in a Baghdad neighbourhood. The fliers identified some of the men as armed.

WikiLeaks said the men in the square included Reuters photographer Namir Noor-Eldeen, 22, and his assistant and driver Saeed Chmagh, 40, who were killed in the incident.

"The gathering at the corner that is fired up on has about nine people in it," Julian Assange, a WikiLeaks spokesman, told reporters at the National Press Club.

The gunsight tracks two of the men, identified by WikiLeaks as the Reuters news staff, as the fliers identify their cameras as weapons. Military spokesman Turner said that during the engagement, the helicopter mistook a camera for a rocket-propelled grenade launcher.

The helicopter opened fire on the small group, killing several people and wounding others. Minutes later, when a van approached and began trying to assist the wounded, the fliers became concerned the vehicle was occupied by militants trying to collect weapons and help wounded comrades escape.

The Apache helicopters requested permission to attack the van and waited impatiently.

"Come on, let us shoot," said one voice.

The fliers were granted permission to engage the van and opened fire, apparently killing several people in and around the vehicle.

Two children wounded in the van were evacuated by U.S. ground forces arriving at the scene as the Apache helicopters continued to circle overhead.

"Well it's their fault for bringing their kids into a battle," one of the U.S. fliers said.

David Schlesinger, Reuters' editor-in-chief, said the video released by WikiLeaks showed the deaths of Noor-Eldeen and Chmagh were "tragic and emblematic of the extreme dangers that exist in covering war zones."

"The video released today via WikiLeaks is graphic evidence of the dangers involved in war journalism and the tragedies that can result," he said.

Reuters has pressed the U.S. military to conduct a full and objective investigation into the killing of the two staff.

Video of the incident from two U.S. Apache helicopters and photographs taken of the scene were shown to Reuters editors in an off-the-record briefing in Baghdad on July 25, 2007.

U.S. military officers who presented the materials said Reuters had to make a request under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) to get copies. This request was made the same day.

Turner said the military had released documents to Reuters last year in response to the FOIA request showing the presence of weapons on the scene, including AK-47 rifles and an RPG 7 grenade launcher.

Assange said he disagreed with a U.S. military assessment that the attack was justified.

"I believe that if those killings were lawful under the rules of engagement, then the rules of engagement are wrong, deeply wrong," he said. The fliers in the video act "like they are playing a computer game and their desire is they want to get high scores" by killing opponents, he said.

If only we could see the half of what goes on!

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[shropshire 0]

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"Come on, let us shoot," said one voice.

Wanker

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[rhys 0]

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"Come on, let us shoot," said one voice.

Wanker[Mad]

he said that while he was looking at 2 children sitting in the front seat!!

If I could come face to face with that coward...

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[virgin-burner 1]

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"Come on, let us shoot," said one voice.

Wanker[Mad]

he said that while he was looking at 2 children sitting in the front seat!!

If I could come face to face with that coward...

maybe one of the kids pointed a finger at them and went "bam-bam"!

i bet that's justified..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[mnealtx 0]

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he said that while he was looking at 2 children sitting in the front seat!!

So, you have a screen cap of the video that clearly shows the children, I'm sure.

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If I could come face to face with that coward...

Uh huh...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[rhys 0]

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Speculation.

Documented.You did't watch the video did you, oh thats right, you're not allowed!


He had the children in full sight and was getting agitated becuase they would soon go out of view.

Speculation is the illeged weapons they supposedly saw.

There was absolutely no hostile activity at all from the deceased, no evidence of any weapons or any intent to use any weapons.

They gave false information to allow them the have a shooting spree and they enjoyed it, and boasted about it to each other.

I am very interested to see how you inted on defending these criminals?

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[mnealtx 0]

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Speculation.

Documented.You did't watch the video did you, oh thats right, you're not allowed!

Bandwidth issues.

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He had the children in full sight and was getting agitated becuase they would soon go out of view.

And, as I amended above, you *do* have a screenshot with the children in clear view as you claim, yes?

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Speculation is the illeged weapons they supposedly saw.

And, of course you were INSTANTLY able to identify them as cameras without any foreknowledge.

Right.

I'll take a screencap of *that*, too.

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There was absolutely no hostile activity at all from the deceased, no evidence of any weapons or any intent to use any weapons.

You can tell intent from a video? TRULY amazing.

Obviously the pilots and thier higher command differed.

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They gave false information to allow them the have a shooting spree and they enjoyed it, and boasted about it to each other.

I'm sure that's from your VAST military experience, as well.

Quote

I am very interested to see how you inted on defending these criminals?

Why should I? You've obviously tried, convicted and sentenced them in absentia.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[virgin-burner 1]

mike, truely, GOD BLESS AMERICA on that one!

it's their own damn fault they've brought kids to a battle, isnt it!?

what the fuck do iraquis do in iraq anyway!? the US is doing right in bombing their asses out of it, in the end, their oil is yours, isnt it!?

fucking iraquis should all be put into a concentration camp!

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[virgin-burner 1]

forgot to add, help those kids by including them in your prayers, will you!?

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[captain1976 0]

People didn't bellyache about civilian casualties when America's intervention brought peace to the world in WWII.

If America stayed out of it, Countries in the South Pacific would be run by the Japanese and the whole of Europe would be under German rule.

Big responsibility America has and you can't blame the whole country for the inappropriate action of a few.

You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime

[Skyrad 0]

I just watched the full video on Wikileaks

http://www.truthout.org/wikileaks-releases-video-depicting-us-forces-killing-two-reuters-journalists-iraq58326

in fairness i can see why the pilot and observer engaged the group to start with, its easy to sit in cold isolation watching this on the internet and stop and rewind if need be to see if it was a camera or RPG. It did seem to me that the cameraman pointed the camera at the helicopter from around the side of a building. Sitting in the helicopter they had to make a decision which would possibly cost them their lives if they got it wrong. They got it wrong and it cost the men on the ground their lives instead.
However... They clearly continued to fire upon the wounded men who were no longer a threat and who clearly had no weapons on them. That said, in the heat of battle it is not the easiest thing for a man to go from killing the enemy to stopping within a second when the blood is up. Up to this point I would have put the incident down to fog of war and a tragic event.
What occurs next is unexcusable. To open fire on the van of unarmed men helping an unarmed dying man in the street with a van with children clearly visable in it is nothing short of murder. Neither of the men carrying the injured man were armed and there was no evidence of weapons in the van. Indeed if they had been able to see weapons in the van that could not be seen on the video then without doubt they would also be able to see two little girls. To then hand the children over to the IP for casvac is unforgivable. This event needs to be investigated properly.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[jimmytavino 16]

War has now become "depersonalized"
people sitting in front of monitors,, either waaay distant from the 'battle field' or on board a fighter jet, helo, tank etc.... can be misled by what the see and HOW they interpret it....

therefore. firing away, at a non specific target can become a bad BAD pattern of procedure....
War sucks....
and generally doesn't accomplish what "our leaders" think it will accomplish...

The world will NEVER move to it's full potential, socially, religiously, environmentally, or spiritually,,,,, until the so-called "leaders" ALL accept that WAR is NOT the answer......

I'm certainly NOt sure what IS.......
but i do think i know what ISN'T......

jmy

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Facts of life, lesson #24657.
When in a war zone and carrying weapons, expect to be fired upon.
When in a war zone as a reporter and hanging with people carrying weapons, expect to be fired upon.
When in a war zone and you drive your van to help people who were carrying weapons and were fired upon, expect to fired upon.
When in a war zone and you have children in your van, STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM A LIVE BATTLE!!! How fucking stupid do you have to be to TAKE YOUR CHILDREN INTO A LIVE BATTLE????

It's easy for a bunch of fucking morons to sit back and review the film afterwards to pick out specific frames, enlarge and enhance them, and say, "Look! Children!" In real life and in real time soldiers do not have that luxury. Hell, even when they zoomed in on the van and put the cute little tags pointing to the kids, it still looked like an indistinct form in the passenger seat. Nothing to distinguish that form as two children.

But hey, it has to be true, right? After all it's on youtube.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Ion01 1]

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Quote

"Come on, let us shoot," said one voice.

Wanker

They are fighting a war yet people over here refuse to see it that way. People here look at it like they are the police over there. We have been there too long and in war there are always going to be non-militant casualties. The reason we have been there so long is we haven't fought it like a war.

[virgin-burner 1]

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Quote

Quote

"Come on, let us shoot," said one voice.

Wanker

They are fighting a war yet people over here refuse to see it that way. People here look at it like they are the police over there. We have been there too long and in war there are always going to be non-militant casualties. The reason we have been there so long is we haven't fought it like a war.

nope, u did it just as a way for fighting for ressources (oil), have ye'!? cant blame ye' for that, right!?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4emATIkaEBo

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[shropshire 0]

Quote

Facts of life, lesson #24657.
When in a war zone and carrying weapons, expect to be fired upon.
When in a war zone as a reporter and hanging with people carrying weapons, expect to be fired upon.
When in a war zone and you drive your van to help people who were carrying weapons and were fired upon, expect to fired upon.
When in a war zone and you have children in your van, STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM A LIVE BATTLE!!! How fucking stupid do you have to be to TAKE YOUR CHILDREN INTO A LIVE BATTLE????

It's easy for a bunch of fucking morons to sit back and review the film afterwards to pick out specific frames, enlarge and enhance them, and say, "Look! Children!" In real life and in real time soldiers do not have that luxury. Hell, even when they zoomed in on the van and put the cute little tags pointing to the kids, it still looked like an indistinct form in the passenger seat. Nothing to distinguish that form as two children.

But hey, it has to be true, right? After all it's on youtube.

P.S - THERE WAS NO LIVE BATTLE - JUST A FUCKING TURKEY SHOOT BY WANKERS.

So, taking away wounded people is a crime that warrants being shot, does it? Puts ambulance chasing into a whole new category

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Ion01 1]

So many of you have an idea about how they should approach this situation but if you apply that same idea to a scenerio in when men are armed the helicopter pilots would most likely be dead.

And you all seem so concerned about the lives in this one video but where is the concern for the thousands of US soldiers that have died for us and our freedom? Or the ones that are injured? Or all of the soldiers who went there to risk thier lives so we could all sit back here and critisize thier every move? All the soldiers, just like these two, who wake up every morning not knowing if it will be thier last? All the soldiers who know that every decision they make could result in thier death or thier friends death?

NO! Lets all set back here in our comfy seats and whine how they need to be brought back and prosecuted for fighting a war for us!

[Ion01 1]

Quote

Quote

Facts of life, lesson #24657.
When in a war zone and carrying weapons, expect to be fired upon.
When in a war zone as a reporter and hanging with people carrying weapons, expect to be fired upon.
When in a war zone and you drive your van to help people who were carrying weapons and were fired upon, expect to fired upon.
When in a war zone and you have children in your van, STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM A LIVE BATTLE!!! How fucking stupid do you have to be to TAKE YOUR CHILDREN INTO A LIVE BATTLE????

It's easy for a bunch of fucking morons to sit back and review the film afterwards to pick out specific frames, enlarge and enhance them, and say, "Look! Children!" In real life and in real time soldiers do not have that luxury. Hell, even when they zoomed in on the van and put the cute little tags pointing to the kids, it still looked like an indistinct form in the passenger seat. Nothing to distinguish that form as two children.

But hey, it has to be true, right? After all it's on youtube.

P.S - THERE WAS NO LIVE BATTLE - JUST A FUCKING TURKEY SHOOT BY WANKERS.

So, taking away wounded people is a crime that warrants being shot, does it? Puts ambulance chasing into a whole new category

Its a war.... the whole country is a live battle!........and thats why seven years is rediculous.

[shropshire 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

"Come on, let us shoot," said one voice.

Wanker

They are fighting a war yet people over here refuse to see it that way. People here look at it like they are the police over there. We have been there too long and in war there are always going to be non-militant casualties. The reason we have been there so long is we haven't fought it like a war.

No you invaded another country - Normal people live in that country too and have every right to go about their everyday lives without being fucked up.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[shropshire 0]

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Its a war.... the whole country is a live battle!........and thats why seven years is rediculous.

***

eh? so all the kids should leave THEIR country or stay in doors - what a fucked up way to run an invasion.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Quote

Quote

Facts of life, lesson #24657.
When in a war zone and carrying weapons, expect to be fired upon.
When in a war zone as a reporter and hanging with people carrying weapons, expect to be fired upon.
When in a war zone and you drive your van to help people who were carrying weapons and were fired upon, expect to fired upon.
When in a war zone and you have children in your van, STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM A LIVE BATTLE!!! How fucking stupid do you have to be to TAKE YOUR CHILDREN INTO A LIVE BATTLE????

It's easy for a bunch of fucking morons to sit back and review the film afterwards to pick out specific frames, enlarge and enhance them, and say, "Look! Children!" In real life and in real time soldiers do not have that luxury. Hell, even when they zoomed in on the van and put the cute little tags pointing to the kids, it still looked like an indistinct form in the passenger seat. Nothing to distinguish that form as two children.

But hey, it has to be true, right? After all it's on youtube.

P.S - THERE WAS NO LIVE BATTLE - JUST A FUCKING TURKEY SHOOT BY WANKERS.

So, taking away wounded people is a crime that warrants being shot, does it? Puts ambulance chasing into a whole new category

When you have two groups of people who are armed and one opens fire on the other, that is a battle.
The helicopter crews only knew that a van of men were helping a member of a group that was seen with weapons and who they now considered a prisoner. So, yes, in this case it did warrant being shot at.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[shropshire 0]

Oh well... the only shooting done was by the wankers in air... They had a duty of care to ensure that their targets we legitimate - IMHO they did not do so - They were in the wrong [Full Stop]

You are clearly never going to see it from my side - and I weill never see it from your. So nice talking with ya - Bye

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

nope, u did it just as a way for fighting for ressources (oil), have ye'!? cant blame ye' for that, right!?

US Petroleum imports from Iraq (thousands of barrels):
1996 - 423
1997 - 32,530
1998 - 122,518
1999 - 264,764
2000 - 226,804
2001 - 289,998
2002 - 167,638
2003 - 175,663
2004 - 240,191
2005 - 193,987
2006 - 201,866
2007 - 176,709
2008 - 229,300

So much for the 'it's for the oil' claim.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Quote

Oh well... the only shooting done was by the wankers in air... They had a duty of care to ensure that their targets we legitimate - IMHO they did not do so - They were in the wrong [Full Stop]

You are clearly never going to see it from my side - and I weill never see it from your. So nice talking with ya - Bye

Group of men, some of them carrying rifles = legitimate targets. End of story.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[billvon 2,395]

>Group of men, some of them carrying rifles = legitimate targets. End of story.

I'll remember that the next time someone whines about gun rights.