JohnRich 4 #1 April 1, 2010 News:Record numbers now licensed to pack heat Firearms deaths fall as millions obtain permits to carry concealed guns From its beginnings in the 1980s, the “right-to-carry” movement has succeeded in boosting the number of licensed concealed-gun carriers from fewer than 1 million to a record 6 million today... Statistics from the national Centers for Disease Control do indicate that the murder and mayhem predicted by many opponents of concealed-carry laws have not come to pass... Americans overall are far less likely to be killed with a firearm than they were when it was much more difficult to obtain a concealed-weapons permit, according to statistics collected by the federal Centers for Disease Control... In the 1980s and ’90s, as the concealed-carry movement gained steam, Americans were killed by others with guns at the rate of about 5.66 per 100,000 population. In this decade, the rate has fallen to just over 4.07 per 100,000, a 28 percent drop. The decline follows a fivefold increase in the number of “shall-issue” and unrestricted concealed-carry states from 1986 to 2006... The decline in gun homicides also comes as U.S. firearm sales are skyrocketing... a 55 percent increase in just four years...Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34714389/ns/us_news-life// Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #2 April 1, 2010 OMG.. you do realize you just used THE LIBERAL MEDIA aka Marcs Drive By Media to argue your position.... Are you possessed?? Is this really JR???? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #3 April 1, 2010 Quote OMG.. you do realize you just used THE LIBERAL MEDIA aka Marcs Drive By Media to argue your position.... Are you possessed?? Is this really JR???? I read them all the time I just dont quote them because it is no funAlong with yahoonews, drudge, newsmax, the bbc and many others And most of you dont realize that drudge and newsmax link the majority of their news to other sites THAT is why I like them"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #4 April 1, 2010 QuoteOMG.. you do realize you just used THE LIBERAL MEDIA to argue your position... Yep. It'll keep the liberals from complaining about the source being in the pocket of the right-wing gun nuts. And if even the liberal media is finally admitting this about guns, then it's got to be true. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
futuredivot 0 #5 April 1, 2010 Quoteliberal media is finally admitting this about guns, then it's got to be true. WRONG!! Don't you understand that this is just like climate data-If the numbers support the left, it's science. If the numbers support the right, it's an aberration or incorrectly applied. And if you have a problem with that, you must be a gun nut racist. Glad I could clear that up for you.You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #6 April 2, 2010 QuoteQuoteliberal media is finally admitting this about guns, then it's got to be true. WRONG!! Don't you understand that this is just like climate data-If the numbers support the left, it's science. If the numbers support the right, it's an aberration or incorrectly applied. And if you have a problem with that, you must be an ignorant gun nut racist denier. Glad I could clear that up for you. Fixed that for you.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
futuredivot 0 #7 April 2, 2010 You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #8 April 2, 2010 Quote Dammit...we forgot bitter and clinging!!Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #9 April 2, 2010 So where exactly it shows that less crime is related to more guns (and nothing else)?* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
futuredivot 0 #10 April 2, 2010 It does show that more guns isn't related to MORE crime.You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #11 April 2, 2010 QuoteIt does show that more guns isn't related to MORE crime. Statistical analysis is not your strong point, it seems.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
futuredivot 0 #12 April 2, 2010 manipulating data to support an incorrect supposition isn't. As more citizens are allowed to protect themselves we are not seeing the OK Corral that the Brady Babies all told us would happen. I hate that the truth flies in the face of your world view Sorry 'bout your damn luckYou are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #13 April 2, 2010 Quotemanipulating data to support an incorrect supposition isn't. As more citizens are allowed to protect themselves we are not seeing the OK Corral that the Brady Babies all told us would happen. I hate that the truth flies in the face of your world view Sorry 'bout your damn luck Until correction for confounding variables is made, no conclusions whatsoever can be drawn. Your rant is meaningless.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #14 April 2, 2010 QuoteIt does show that more guns isn't related to MORE crime. No, it does not, as there is a probability that without the guns the drop in crime rate would be significantly larger. Maybe the U.S. murder rate even came down to U.K. rate.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #15 April 3, 2010 QuoteQuoteIt does show that more guns isn't related to MORE crime. Statistical analysis is not your strong point, it seems. all it shows is that at the same time that there are more states adopting shall issue laws for CHL's, there is also a down trend in firearm homicides. Also, at the same time, there is nothing to show they are directly related and neither is there anything to show they are completely disassociated. statistics are near meaningless.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #16 April 3, 2010 QuoteQuoteIt does show that more guns isn't related to MORE crime. No, it does not, as there is a probability that without the guns the drop in crime rate would be significantly larger. where did you read that? Or are you must making suppositions? (you're allowed to make suppositions, but then you don't have much ground to stand on when people start supposing right back at you)-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,623 #17 April 3, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteIt does show that more guns isn't related to MORE crime. Statistical analysis is not your strong point, it seems. all it shows is that at the same time that there are more states adopting shall issue laws for CHL's, there is also a down trend in firearm homicides. Also, at the same time, there is nothing to show they are directly related and neither is there anything to show they are completely disassociated. THESE statistics are near meaningless. Fixed it for you.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georgerussia 0 #18 April 3, 2010 Quote where did you read that? Or are you must making suppositions? Same as those who speculate that more guns LEADS to less (or at least not more) crime.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhaig 0 #19 April 3, 2010 QuoteQuote where did you read that? Or are you must making suppositions? Same as those who speculate that more guns LEADS to less (or at least not more) crime. ok. so you're battling suppositions with suppositions. Good luck with that. At least you shouldn't pretend like you don't know why nobody takes you seriously.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georgerussia 0 #20 April 3, 2010 Quote Good luck with that. At least you shouldn't pretend like you don't know why nobody takes you seriously. Define "nobody".* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites christelsabine 1 #21 April 3, 2010 Quote Quote Quote where did you read that? Or are you must making suppositions? Same as those who speculate that more guns LEADS to less (or at least not more) crime. ok. so you're battling suppositions with suppositions. Good luck with that. At least you shouldn't pretend like you don't know why nobody takes you seriously. Well, for several million people I am a nobody. But when did I allow you to talk for me? dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RackJR 0 #22 April 3, 2010 i didn't see any numbers at all, except those in the title. more people have CCW's, and there are fewer deaths from guns. no actual numbers really. the article actually states several times that no scientific study has been done that has received wide acceptance. drawing conclusions seems like a tough thing to do. so i'm curious if anyone has more related information. is gun production up or down? although more CCW's are being issued, have there been stricter laws enacted about purchasing a handgun? i'm not taking the piss, i really don't know. is there a waiting period that might be discouraging those who plan to use the gun for less than admirable purposes? typically the people who get CCW's are not the one's looking to rob a bank, IMO. have stiffer penalties been enacted regarding illegal handguns? i know in denver they have billboards advertising that illegal handguns will earn you quick ride to jail. does anyone have other data that might shed more light on the whole picture? Say what you mean. Do what you say. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,623 #23 April 3, 2010 Quotei didn't see any numbers at all, except those in the title. more people have CCW's, and there are fewer deaths from guns. no actual numbers really. the article actually states several times that no scientific study has been done that has received wide acceptance. drawing conclusions seems like a tough thing to do. so i'm curious if anyone has more related information. is gun production up or down? although more CCW's are being issued, have there been stricter laws enacted about purchasing a handgun? i'm not taking the piss, i really don't know. is there a waiting period that might be discouraging those who plan to use the gun for less than admirable purposes? typically the people who get CCW's are not the one's looking to rob a bank, IMO. have stiffer penalties been enacted regarding illegal handguns? i know in denver they have billboards advertising that illegal handguns will earn you quick ride to jail. does anyone have other data that might shed more light on the whole picture? CCW requirements vary from state to state but in general are rather more rigorous than the pathetic NICS check required to purchase a gun from a licensed dealer. Taking Texas as an example, an undesirable individual will find it difficult to get a CCW permit given that the state seems to do a good job of the background check and has strict eligibility requirements. chltraining.com/eligibility.html On the other hand, all a felon or a psycho needs to do to get a gun is buy one from an unlicensed seller, no check of any sort required.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhaig 0 #24 April 3, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote where did you read that? Or are you must making suppositions? Same as those who speculate that more guns LEADS to less (or at least not more) crime. ok. so you're battling suppositions with suppositions. Good luck with that. At least you shouldn't pretend like you don't know why nobody takes you seriously. Well, for several million people I am a nobody. But when did I allow you to talk for me? don't believe I was replying to you. But if you feel like people here aren't taking you seriously, maybe my statement applies. Are you battling suppositions with suppositions?-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhaig 0 #25 April 3, 2010 Quote is gun production up or down? although more CCW's are being issued, have there been stricter laws enacted about purchasing a handgun? i'm not taking the piss, i really don't know. is there a waiting period that might be discouraging those who plan to use the gun for less than admirable purposes? typically the people who get CCW's are not the one's looking to rob a bank, IMO. have stiffer penalties been enacted regarding illegal handguns? i know in denver they have billboards advertising that illegal handguns will earn you quick ride to jail. does anyone have other data that might shed more light on the whole picture? I'm not aware of a change in the production rate, and I believe the answers to the rest of your questions is no. I don't believe there's been much change around the laws regarding the purchase and use of firearms. When states started issusing carry permits, one of the things the opponents trumpeted was that we would have the "shootout at the OK Corral". People would be shooting in the streets at each other, because everyone had guns. Clearly that hasn't happened. Some places have experienced an overall reduction in violent crime. It's near impossible to say for certain that the CHL laws are what made the difference, but they clearly didn't cause the shootouts in the streets that were feared by some.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
kallend 1,623 #17 April 3, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteIt does show that more guns isn't related to MORE crime. Statistical analysis is not your strong point, it seems. all it shows is that at the same time that there are more states adopting shall issue laws for CHL's, there is also a down trend in firearm homicides. Also, at the same time, there is nothing to show they are directly related and neither is there anything to show they are completely disassociated. THESE statistics are near meaningless. Fixed it for you.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #18 April 3, 2010 Quote where did you read that? Or are you must making suppositions? Same as those who speculate that more guns LEADS to less (or at least not more) crime.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #19 April 3, 2010 QuoteQuote where did you read that? Or are you must making suppositions? Same as those who speculate that more guns LEADS to less (or at least not more) crime. ok. so you're battling suppositions with suppositions. Good luck with that. At least you shouldn't pretend like you don't know why nobody takes you seriously.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #20 April 3, 2010 Quote Good luck with that. At least you shouldn't pretend like you don't know why nobody takes you seriously. Define "nobody".* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #21 April 3, 2010 Quote Quote Quote where did you read that? Or are you must making suppositions? Same as those who speculate that more guns LEADS to less (or at least not more) crime. ok. so you're battling suppositions with suppositions. Good luck with that. At least you shouldn't pretend like you don't know why nobody takes you seriously. Well, for several million people I am a nobody. But when did I allow you to talk for me? dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RackJR 0 #22 April 3, 2010 i didn't see any numbers at all, except those in the title. more people have CCW's, and there are fewer deaths from guns. no actual numbers really. the article actually states several times that no scientific study has been done that has received wide acceptance. drawing conclusions seems like a tough thing to do. so i'm curious if anyone has more related information. is gun production up or down? although more CCW's are being issued, have there been stricter laws enacted about purchasing a handgun? i'm not taking the piss, i really don't know. is there a waiting period that might be discouraging those who plan to use the gun for less than admirable purposes? typically the people who get CCW's are not the one's looking to rob a bank, IMO. have stiffer penalties been enacted regarding illegal handguns? i know in denver they have billboards advertising that illegal handguns will earn you quick ride to jail. does anyone have other data that might shed more light on the whole picture? Say what you mean. Do what you say. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #23 April 3, 2010 Quotei didn't see any numbers at all, except those in the title. more people have CCW's, and there are fewer deaths from guns. no actual numbers really. the article actually states several times that no scientific study has been done that has received wide acceptance. drawing conclusions seems like a tough thing to do. so i'm curious if anyone has more related information. is gun production up or down? although more CCW's are being issued, have there been stricter laws enacted about purchasing a handgun? i'm not taking the piss, i really don't know. is there a waiting period that might be discouraging those who plan to use the gun for less than admirable purposes? typically the people who get CCW's are not the one's looking to rob a bank, IMO. have stiffer penalties been enacted regarding illegal handguns? i know in denver they have billboards advertising that illegal handguns will earn you quick ride to jail. does anyone have other data that might shed more light on the whole picture? CCW requirements vary from state to state but in general are rather more rigorous than the pathetic NICS check required to purchase a gun from a licensed dealer. Taking Texas as an example, an undesirable individual will find it difficult to get a CCW permit given that the state seems to do a good job of the background check and has strict eligibility requirements. chltraining.com/eligibility.html On the other hand, all a felon or a psycho needs to do to get a gun is buy one from an unlicensed seller, no check of any sort required.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #24 April 3, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote where did you read that? Or are you must making suppositions? Same as those who speculate that more guns LEADS to less (or at least not more) crime. ok. so you're battling suppositions with suppositions. Good luck with that. At least you shouldn't pretend like you don't know why nobody takes you seriously. Well, for several million people I am a nobody. But when did I allow you to talk for me? don't believe I was replying to you. But if you feel like people here aren't taking you seriously, maybe my statement applies. Are you battling suppositions with suppositions?-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #25 April 3, 2010 Quote is gun production up or down? although more CCW's are being issued, have there been stricter laws enacted about purchasing a handgun? i'm not taking the piss, i really don't know. is there a waiting period that might be discouraging those who plan to use the gun for less than admirable purposes? typically the people who get CCW's are not the one's looking to rob a bank, IMO. have stiffer penalties been enacted regarding illegal handguns? i know in denver they have billboards advertising that illegal handguns will earn you quick ride to jail. does anyone have other data that might shed more light on the whole picture? I'm not aware of a change in the production rate, and I believe the answers to the rest of your questions is no. I don't believe there's been much change around the laws regarding the purchase and use of firearms. When states started issusing carry permits, one of the things the opponents trumpeted was that we would have the "shootout at the OK Corral". People would be shooting in the streets at each other, because everyone had guns. Clearly that hasn't happened. Some places have experienced an overall reduction in violent crime. It's near impossible to say for certain that the CHL laws are what made the difference, but they clearly didn't cause the shootouts in the streets that were feared by some.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
