Why won't God heal Amputees?

[remibond 0]

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The question is how is not having faith an expression of being able to deal with a "difficult reality" more so than having faith? Hard is hard and faith doesnt change that, nor does not having faith.

I believe it is a true statement to say that there is a death beyond dying, and a life beyond just being alive.

Because having faith provides a blanket explanation for why all things, good and bad, happen (because it is gods will), whereas one without faith is forced to find an actual reason for what you called a "difficult reality".

Furthermore, the promise of life after death gives those with faith the assurance that even if life is hard, it does not matter as much as what they will encounter when they die. One without faith, however, may be more inclined to make the most of the finite time they believe they have.

[rynodigsmusic 0]

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for what you called a "difficult reality".

Sorry man, I didnt say that. I was quoting someone else, but, I still stand by my post. Welcome to the forums by the way

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One without faith, however, may be more inclined to make the most of the finite time they believe they have.

Time is not life to me. I dont feel that time missed is the same as time lost, and have a lot to be thankful for without needing more. For me, life is very spiritual, but why would you assume it is less fulfilling? I am interested in hearing your thoughts about making the most of life though? If you have time anyway.

"We didn't start the fire"

[remibond 0]

Haha thanks dude, figured I'd been just lurking for too long. And i was out enjoying life way too much

In answer to your question though, I'm not claiming that a spiritual life is any less fulfilling than a non-spiritual one, but that focusing on what may or may not occur after we die can detract from what we allow ourselves to experience while we are alive.

I think the fact that we skydive should make this even more apparent.

It's hard to get my POV across over the internet. While I appreciate the need for a certain amount of self reflection (perhaps what you would call spirituality?), I do think that too much of it can, frankly, be classed as time wasted.

You may have noticed, I'm undecided on the whole god topic

[RonD1120 58]

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Or is it just a construct of my own mind to help me cope with a difficult reality?

Same question I have pondered. Genuineness is about being fair to your conscience, exploring everything in your own mind. The power of faith is underestimated, as it is not a power of ours, but of Gods.

The question is how is not having faith an expression of being able to deal with a "difficult reality" more so than having faith? Hard is hard and faith doesnt change that, nor does not having faith.

My Sunday morning devotional from Oswald Chambers; it seems to fit in this discussion.

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March 29th.

OUR LORD'S SURPRISE VISITS

"Be ye therefore ready also.” Luke xii. 40.

The great need for the Christian worker is to be ready to face Jesus Christ at any and every turn. This is not easy, no matter what our experience is. The battle is not against sin or difficulties or circumstances, but against being so absorbed in work that we are not ready to face Jesus Christ at every turn. That is the one great need, not the facing our belief, or our creed, the question whether we are of any use, but face Him.

Jesus rarely comes where we expect Him; He appears where we least expect Him, and always in the most illogical connections. The only way a worker can keep true to God is by being ready for the Lord's surprise visits. It is not service that matters, but intense spiritual reality, expecting Jesus Christ at every turn. This will give our life the attitude of child-wonder which He wants it to have. If we are going to be ready for Jesus Christ, we have to stop being religious (that is, using religion as a higher kind of culture) and be spiritually real.

If you are "looking off unto Jesus," avoiding the call of the religious age you live in, and setting your heart on what He wants, on thinking on His line—you will be called unpractical and dreamy; but when He appears in the burden and the heat of the day, you will be the only one who is ready. Trust no one, not even the finest saint who ever walked this earth, ignore him, if he hinders your sight of Jesus Christ.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[nigel99 143]

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God is not found through miracles, because simply witnessing a miracle is not enough to find faith. According to the gospel, Jesus didn't perform miracles so that people would find faith, he performed miracles so that people would know he came from God and therefore may find faith (salvation) in his message. However, most people who witnessed the miracles of Jesus did put their faith in him.

Peter was asked to walk across the water over to Jesus. He knew by that point that Jesus was the Messiah, but still did not possess enough faith to be doubtless. It is a doubtless faith that saves, and that is a gift of the Holy Spirit, not a reward for righteousness.

The gospel teaches that "God is always at his work", and that his work is displayed everywhere.

No matter how much you try to convince yourself that God is not real because he hasnt shown you a miracle (that you perceive anyway), it doesnt take away from the truth. That witnessing a miracle is not enough for you to find the faith that saves.

38Then some of the Pharisees and teachers of the law said to him, "Teacher, we want to see a miraculous sign from you."39He answered, "A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

So riddle me this. Why were the biblical generation "good enough" to be shown such miracles and we are not? If we are good enough why are amputees not on the menu?

As I said I stumbled on the website, I didn't go looking for it. I don't know if his claim that no amputee has ever been healed is true - but I have heard of raising from the dead, blind, deaf etc but NEVER an amputee. Could it just be that it is the one area that is not open to medical mistakes or freaks of nature, or is God simply not powerful enough to regrow limbs?

Alternatively maybe a "few" are good enough to be shown miracles so that they might be saved. I've heard all the stories about "loving father" and discipline etc, but to me the analogy is more like an absent father who disowns his child cause he doesn't search hard enough for the father who was deliberately hiding from his kid - I think most people would find that behavior repugnant.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[RonD1120 58]

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So riddle me this. Why were the biblical generation "good enough" to be shown such miracles and we are not? If we are good enough why are amputees not on the menu?

As I said I stumbled on the website, I didn't go looking for it. I don't know if his claim that no amputee has ever been healed is true - but I have heard of raising from the dead, blind, deaf etc but NEVER an amputee. Could it just be that it is the one area that is not open to medical mistakes or freaks of nature, or is God simply not powerful enough to regrow limbs?

Alternatively maybe a "few" are good enough to be shown miracles so that they might be saved. I've heard all the stories about "loving father" and discipline etc, but to me the analogy is more like an absent father who disowns his child cause he doesn't search hard enough for the father who was deliberately hiding from his kid - I think most people would find that behavior repugnant.

Check this out.

http://www.equip.org/articles/does-god-always-heal

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[nigel99 143]

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So riddle me this. Why were the biblical generation "good enough" to be shown such miracles and we are not? If we are good enough why are amputees not on the menu?

As I said I stumbled on the website, I didn't go looking for it. I don't know if his claim that no amputee has ever been healed is true - but I have heard of raising from the dead, blind, deaf etc but NEVER an amputee. Could it just be that it is the one area that is not open to medical mistakes or freaks of nature, or is God simply not powerful enough to regrow limbs?

Alternatively maybe a "few" are good enough to be shown miracles so that they might be saved. I've heard all the stories about "loving father" and discipline etc, but to me the analogy is more like an absent father who disowns his child cause he doesn't search hard enough for the father who was deliberately hiding from his kid - I think most people would find that behavior repugnant.

Check this out.

http://www.equip.org/articles/does-god-always-heal

Hi Ron,

Not to be awkward but have you ever heard of an amputee being healed in the entire history of the Christian church?

I am not asking why God doesn't always heal.

Regards,

Nigel

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[RonD1120 58]

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Check this out.

http://www.equip.org/articles/does-god-always-heal

Hi Ron,

Not to be awkward but have you ever heard of an amputee being healed in the entire history of the Christian church?

I am not asking why God doesn't always heal.

Regards,

Nigel

[kallend 1,621]

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God is not found through miracles, because simply witnessing a miracle is not enough to find faith. According to the gospel, Jesus didn't perform miracles so that people would find faith, he performed miracles so that people would know he came from God and therefore may find faith (salvation) in his message. However, most people who witnessed the miracles of Jesus did put their faith in him.

Peter was asked to walk across the water over to Jesus. He knew by that point that Jesus was the Messiah, but still did not possess enough faith to be doubtless. It is a doubtless faith that saves, and that is a gift of the Holy Spirit, not a reward for righteousness.

The gospel teaches that "God is always at his work", and that his work is displayed everywhere.

No matter how much you try to convince yourself that God is not real because he hasnt shown you a miracle (that you perceive anyway), it doesnt take away from the truth. That witnessing a miracle is not enough for you to find the faith that saves.

38Then some of the Pharisees and teachers of the law said to him, "Teacher, we want to see a miraculous sign from you."39He answered, "A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

So riddle me this. Why were the biblical generation "good enough" to be shown such miracles and we are not? If we are good enough why are amputees not on the menu?

As I said I stumbled on the website, I didn't go looking for it. I don't know if his claim that no amputee has ever been healed is true - but I have heard of raising from the dead, blind, deaf etc but NEVER an amputee. Could it just be that it is the one area that is not open to medical mistakes or freaks of nature, or is God simply not powerful enough to regrow limbs?

Alternatively maybe a "few" are good enough to be shown miracles so that they might be saved. I've heard all the stories about "loving father" and discipline etc, but to me the analogy is more like an absent father who disowns his child cause he doesn't search hard enough for the father who was deliberately hiding from his kid - I think most people would find that behavior repugnant.

I refer you to my previous post in this thread - apparently the GodFrog loves amphibians enough to re-grow their amputated limbs.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Andy9o8 0]

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apparently the GodFrog loves amphibians enough to re-grow their amputated limbs.

That's not the GodFrog; it's the Frog God.

(And no, I don't mean this guy.)

[nigel99 143]

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Check this out.

http://www.equip.org/articles/does-god-always-heal

Hi Ron,

Not to be awkward but have you ever heard of an amputee being healed in the entire history of the Christian church?

I am not asking why God doesn't always heal.

Regards,

Nigel

No, never.

[kallend 1,621]

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apparently the GodFrog loves amphibians enough to re-grow their amputated limbs.

That's not the GodFrog; it's the Frog God.

(And no, I don't mean this guy.)

Sorry, in skydiving we refer to Him as The Godfrog.

Since regrowth of amputated limbs is possible for the gods of lower lifeforms, one wonders why the loving omnipotent gods of humans don't bother. I guess they're too busy doing important stuff like burying people alive in earthquakes.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rynodigsmusic 0]

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Haha thanks dude, figured I'd been just lurking for too long. And i was out enjoying life way too much

Its awesome that your circumstances allow you to do that! When im not contracting, im not on these forums either, but I guess I have to make a living somehow, hopefully soon it will be in skydiving.

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In answer to your question though, I'm not claiming that a spiritual life is any less fulfilling than a non-spiritual one, but that focusing on what may or may not occur after we die can detract from what we allow ourselves to experience while we are alive.

I agree with this more than you may think. I will admit, I do deny myself things that may obviously be looked at as missing out. Thats one of the worst things about a revelation of God, is that others think you are missing out, and that alone is often a reason people cannot or will not believe. Jesus wept over how little our faith was. Its like a prisoner is finally released after years in captivity, but when the door is open, he would rather stay in prison. To me, thats a bit sad, but, you cant prove to me that is not true either.

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I think the fact that we skydive should make this even more apparent.

Yup, for me it was about getting more out of life at the time. I came to that revelation years ago, and it has allowed me to experience a wealth of travel, culture, philosophy ect... skydiving is the greatest community I have found that encompasses an extrodinarily vast diversity of people, with all sorts of incredible experiences and perceptions, all united in similar desires. Skydiving grows on people, and you dont have to be a jumper to be a part of the scene. So, yeah, I wanted to fly, but I was completely unaware of everything skydiving was going to offer, other than the sky... and pleasantly surprised. There are all sorts of different motives for skydivers. For me, its not everything, but sharing a sunset jump with good friends is priceless.

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It's hard to get my POV across over the internet.

Tell me about it. there are things you will learn, and you are held accountable for your words here. Sometimes intent is mis-understood, or even deliberately altered, but I find if you just speak the truth, how can you go wrong? Dont worry about being right or wrong, just speak the truth and let the cards fall. These forums are going to be very addictive for you, especially if you have to work outside of skydiving.

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While I appreciate the need for a certain amount of self reflection (perhaps what you would call spirituality?), I do think that too much of it can, frankly, be classed as time wasted.

God is spirit, life is spirit, life is in us and all around us. Spirituality for me is in that connection. Like a rain drop in the ocean, God is everything to me, and I dont mind saying that because for me, it is the truth. I want more of God, not the world, but I also am very appreciative and extremely humbled by what he has revealed so far.

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I do think that too much of it can, frankly, be classed as time wasted.

If it is a pursuit of religion, then I agree, as I believe it is a waste of time for anyone to try and earn there way into heaven. If it is understood that Jesus reveals that heaven is within you, and you have actually experienced powerful revelations associated with that truth, then I cant in my own conscience accept that I am wasting life. There is an incredible difference between earning your way into heaven, and heaven revealing itself and pulling you closer. Just out of curiosity though, have you read a gospel?

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You may have noticed, I'm undecided on the whole god topic

No worries. That doesnt mean you arent on the path to him, and it doesnt mean you are either, just stay open, the reason your undecided is because you dont know. There are many different beliefs on these forums, but there is only one truth in your conscience. You have to be fair to that. Truth is about what is true to you, not what others think should be. This is a great place to hear different perceptions of life, if your listening anyway.

"We didn't start the fire"

[rynodigsmusic 0]

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If we are good enough why are amputees not on the menu?

We arent good enough. What was revealed to me is it is our desire for more and more that takes our hearts further away from the truth, that life itself is the miracle and is more than enough. An amputee is not dead, no matter how much pity you may feel for them. I know several amputees. I personally have experience with chronic health problems and have had several surgeries to try and help. My body will persih, so will all of ours, but "life is more than the body".

Many people have overcome challenges and in turn have become inspirations to those around them. There are a few skydivers on this website who have faced challenges most will never have to endure, and many of them have found great peace. God is not unjust. Here is a parable of Jesus that I for one found great revelation in. Many use this as "proof" of hell, but it is written as a parable and therefore contains a spiritual secret that can only be revealed... that God is a just God, and you have no one to pity but yourself.

4So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.' 25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'

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I've heard all the stories about "loving father" and discipline etc, but to me the analogy is more like an absent father who disowns his child cause he doesn't search hard enough for the father who was deliberately hiding from his kid

You listened, but im afraid you didnt hear. Have you even read the parable of the prodigal son? I suggest you read it first, then get back with me.. Luke 15:11-32. Your analogy does not reflect the truth of the Gospel. Even if one cant accept the truth of the Gospel, he should at least know it. But, I guess thats why us christians are here right?

"We didn't start the fire"

[kallend 1,621]

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If we are good enough why are amputees not on the menu?

We arent good enough.

But salamanders are!

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Andy9o8 0]

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why are amputees not on the menu?

Difficult to marinate, I suppose.

[rynodigsmusic 0]

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Or is it just a construct of my own mind to help me cope with a difficult reality?

Same question I have pondered. Genuineness is about being fair to your conscience, exploring everything in your own mind. The power of faith is underestimated, as it is not a power of ours, but of Gods.

The question is how is not having faith an expression of being able to deal with a "difficult reality" more so than having faith? Hard is hard and faith doesnt change that, nor does not having faith.

My Sunday morning devotional from Oswald Chambers; it seems to fit in this discussion.

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March 29th.

OUR LORD'S SURPRISE VISITS

"Be ye therefore ready also.” Luke xii. 40.

The great need for the Christian worker is to be ready to face Jesus Christ at any and every turn. This is not easy, no matter what our experience is. The battle is not against sin or difficulties or circumstances, but against being so absorbed in work that we are not ready to face Jesus Christ at every turn. That is the one great need, not the facing our belief, or our creed, the question whether we are of any use, but face Him.

Jesus rarely comes where we expect Him; He appears where we least expect Him, and always in the most illogical connections. The only way a worker can keep true to God is by being ready for the Lord's surprise visits. It is not service that matters, but intense spiritual reality, expecting Jesus Christ at every turn. This will give our life the attitude of child-wonder which He wants it to have. If we are going to be ready for Jesus Christ, we have to stop being religious (that is, using religion as a higher kind of culture) and be spiritually real.

If you are "looking off unto Jesus," avoiding the call of the religious age you live in, and setting your heart on what He wants, on thinking on His line—you will be called unpractical and dreamy; but when He appears in the burden and the heat of the day, you will be the only one who is ready. Trust no one, not even the finest saint who ever walked this earth, ignore him, if he hinders your sight of Jesus Christ.

yeah, I said what I said because Jesus, and his apostles had great faith, yet they still had to endure the hardships of this world. Everyone has to go through the furnace to be forged in the spirit, but I know you already know that!

"We didn't start the fire"

[rynodigsmusic 0]

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But salamanders are!

Apparently

Why dont you go join a community of salamanders and find out for yourself? Or go ask the godfrogger??

"We didn't start the fire"

[remibond 0]

I'm a student so i figure i may as well enjoy my temporarily debt free status while it lasts . If you say you want to make a living in skydiving in the near future would it be fair to assume you haven't updated your jump numbers in quite some time?

I don't think that fear of missing out on life is the reason why I, or for that matter any of my atheist friends, do not believe in or are unsure of the existence of God. Speaking for myself, the reason why I have yet to reach a conclusion is because i consider myself, on principle, unconvincible. Not going into too much detail, it's basically the blind faith vs. negative proof argument for me.

To pick you up on the prisoner analogy, that requires the observer, in this case you, to be of the opinion that 'finding God' is being set free. I have absolutely no doubt that someone on the other side of the argument could, and quite possibly would, use the exact same analogy of why their side is right. Just a small thing that I've noticed, very few arguments in religious debates cannot be used by either party.

Skydiving rules, no discussion

A point i was going to make earlier, but it fits in just as well here. I very, very strongly believe that it is possible to separate God, spirituality and religion. My views on the God topic i've already posted and am not going to repeat and spirituality (self reflection) you've quoted from my last post, though for me it's really just a case of getting to know myself better or being lost in my own thoughts.

Religion, however, is a totally different beast. I couldn't accept in my own conscience following any religion that claimed to know the one true path to any god, as those claims would need to be made by a human. In the same way that, perhaps, a colony of bacteria grown in a petri dish could not possibly fathom the existence of beings so literally incredible to them as humans, we cannot possibly fathom a being as relatively incredible to us as God. I honestly would be interested to know what those of different religions think of this point.

And in answer to your question; yes, i read the entire Bible (original & revamped) a few years ago. A few good messages, a few bad ones, but far more of them were simply irrelevant.

Oh and in the interest of keeping this thread somewhat on topic (as if it hasn't been off topic for the last however many posts), if we're looking at the question from a non-ironic (and christian) view point, God won't heal amputees because it was through his will that they became amputees in the first place. Or maybe, just maybe, God=/=exist and shit just happens.

Sorry about the length btw, i just enjoy theological debates. You're lucky i was being brief

[remibond 0]

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The great need for the Christian worker is to be ready to face Jesus Christ at any and every turn. This is not easy, no matter what our experience is. The battle is not against sin or difficulties or circumstances, but against being so absorbed in work that we are not ready to face Jesus Christ at every turn.

Couldn't the same be said in reverse, ie. that it is equally dangerous in real terms to spend ones whole life worrying about and so absorbed in their potential meeting that they forget the world is still spinning?

[RonD1120 58]

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The great need for the Christian worker skydiver is to be ready to face Jesus Christ altitude awareness or potential malfunctions at any and every turn. This is not easy, no matter what our experience is. The battle is not against sin negative thinking or difficulties equipment problems or circumstances atmospheric conditions, but against being so absorbed in work the skydive that we are not ready to face Jesus Christ an emergency situation at every turn.

Couldn't the same be said in reverse, ie. that it is equally dangerous in real terms to spend ones whole life worrying about and so absorbed in their potential meeting that they forget the world is still spinning?

Re-read the above corrected quote and understand that listening for the voice of the Holy Spirit or meeting Jesus, as it were, is that kind of awareness.

All accomplished skydivers have that ability. It is simply a matter of using that awareness in the spiritual realm.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[remibond 0]

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The great need for the Christian worker skydiver is to be ready to face Jesus Christ altitude awareness or potential malfunctions at any and every turn. This is not easy, no matter what our experience is. The battle is not against sin negative thinking or difficulties equipment problems or circumstances atmospheric conditions, but against being so absorbed in work the skydive that we are not ready to face Jesus Christ an emergency situation at every turn.

Couldn't the same be said in reverse, ie. that it is equally dangerous in real terms to spend ones whole life worrying about and so absorbed in their potential meeting that they forget the world is still spinning?

Re-read the above corrected quote and understand that listening for the voice of the Holy Spirit or meeting Jesus, as it were, is that kind of awareness.

All accomplished skydivers have that ability. It is simply a matter of using that awareness in the spiritual realm.

I feel you may have slightly misunderstood the question and the skydiver analogy, interesting though it is, doesn't fully fit.

As far as I can tell, your original quote wasn't about being aware of the existence of Christ in the same way that a skydiver is aware of the fact that shit can happen, as mere awareness is only a passive act. It seems like your quote was about actively seeking to please Christ, which would require action, and is therefore an active, continuous process.

In my few skydives the jump itself and the fun element have taken priority but I have still always been as aware as I can be of my surroundings. This to me seems to be at odds with what you are saying and as such with your original quote. Though this could just be my lack of experience showing

[jakee 1,254]

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The great need for the Christian worker skydiver is to be ready to face Jesus Christ altitude awareness or potential malfunctions at any and every turn. This is not easy, no matter what our experience is. The battle is not against sin negative thinking or difficulties equipment problems or circumstances atmospheric conditions, but against being so absorbed in work the skydive that we are not ready to face Jesus Christ an emergency situation at every turn.

Couldn't the same be said in reverse, ie. that it is equally dangerous in real terms to spend ones whole life worrying about and so absorbed in their potential meeting that they forget the world is still spinning?

Re-read the above corrected quote and understand that listening for the voice of the Holy Spirit or meeting Jesus, as it were, is that kind of awareness.

Hang on a minute - Jesus Christ is trying to kill you?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rynodigsmusic 0]

well, either you have been "lurking" for a very long time, or you have had some experience already on open forums! I dont like jump numbers because I very seldom post in the skydiving part of this site, as my thoughts there dont mean near as much to me as my thoughts here. Plus, I am way out of my league experience-wise, nevertheless, the profile is now changed. It was about time anyway I guess... so...

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Not going into too much detail, it's basically the blind faith vs. negative proof argument for me.

I understand that. But faith is more than just beleiving, it is an action, a step. You use "blind" faith when you jump, as you dont know if that will be your last or not. You may try and lie to yourself, but the truth is the moment you leave the door could be the last few minutes you spend on earth. No worries, its just the truth. Accidents happen to even the best.

Debating whether or not God is real must be a college level argument, but, understanding faith is a matter of truth. It must be a college level thing, because most atheists I know are very educated and intelligent, and they use many of the same analogies. Flying spaghetti monster? I didnt even hear that until I came on here. The point is that for me an educated mind is far from my pursuit, but a mind of truth is not. Not saying that an educated person cannot find truth, but you used an observation, and so did I. Just because someone is educated does not mean he knows or speaks the truth.

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To pick you up on the prisoner analogy, that requires the observer, in this case you, to be of the opinion that 'finding God' is being set free.

I disagree. either something is true or it isnt. There have been plenty of institutionalized people who never get out. Doesnt have to be the prison we know, but perception in general. We think this is the way because we were born into it. High school, college, job, marriage, kids, life, old age, death... obviously there is more, but, the truth is that we dont have to live by this world system. Sure we have to understand it in order to escape is evil ass clutch, but the perception we are born into does not have to be the one we leave with. Although, in my observation, it usually is.

There was a stat, not sure if its true or not, but they say some 90% of muslims who are born muslim, die muslim. And Jesus breaks the chains of oppression and reveals an entirely new perception of life. One that I will testify for until I am gone with all my heart. Why? Because I get a greater heaven if I convert someone? Not at all. But because it is the truth to me, and that is what many dont understand. No matter what, if you are sincere and you ask me anything, I will speak the truth to you. Now, if I feel a trap, I will let you know and may choose not to "give you my pearls". But, if you dont mind my saying so, you seem genuine, and I really like genuine people.

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though for me it's really just a case of getting to know myself better or being lost in my own thoughts.

Good. But a true statement is that our thoughts will often accuse us, deceive us, and betray us. In my search to know the desires of my heart, my wants, I found that without a doubt some of my thoughts have been downright evil. It is easy to hit an adversary, much more difficult to love them. Is there more an upside to rage or to love? Yet plenty of "good" people throughout the ages have followed in the footsteps of rage more than love.

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Religion, however, is a totally different beast. I couldn't accept in my own conscience following any religion that claimed to know the one true path to any god, as those claims would need to be made by a human. In the same way that, perhaps, a colony of bacteria grown in a petri dish could not possibly fathom the existence of beings so literally incredible to them as humans, we cannot possibly fathom a being as relatively incredible to us as God.

Not only was the claim made by a human, it is the human that carries the power of the mind, and the heart has power over that. I understand your perception, but if the one true path in my heart is a path of love, then I will stand for that truth with a very clean conscience, as all my hope is in the power of love, not in the intelligence of the mind. And, "no one can know the mind of God, but we have the mind of Christ."

Being right about the one true path is not what is important, as even if a mind is convinced he has the one true path, that is not enough to grow in the spirit of love and life.

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I honestly would be interested to know what those of different religions think of this point.

For me, its that life is nothing without love, and no amount of human intelligence, so far, has been able to unite us with their educated ingenius minds. As unification is not an ability of intelligence, but of wisdom. Wisdom is humble, loving, kind, generous, powerful, good, true, ect... and everywhere. But, it cant be taught, it must be revealed, so that no one can boast.

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And in answer to your question; yes, i read the entire Bible (original & revamped) a few years ago. A few good messages, a few bad ones, but far more of them were simply irrelevant.

Do you believe that loving one another is an irrelevant truth to the unification of human life on this earth? The Gospel, not the bible, is full of wisdom, but again, it must be revealed.

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Or maybe, just maybe, God=/=exist and shit just happens.

Yup, maybe. Seems pretty miraculous by design though, if your looking anyway. Many people live their entire existence with "shit happens". Nothing at all wrong with that, but, it is the only perception they will ever have. Jesus was a pretty powerful figure even if you just look at his influence historically. It is possible, that he was even more powerful than you or I, and he may have known something that went much deeper than what we have been oppressed into accepting as the only truth. That is, he may have had the keys to free us from the prison of this world system and bring us closer to a heaven on earth.

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A few good messages, a few bad ones, but far more of them were simply irrelevant.

I had to re-visit this one. If one day you have the time, id really like to know what messages in the gospel were bad messages?

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Sorry about the length btw, i just enjoy theological debates. You're lucky i was being brief

You may have no idea!

"We didn't start the fire"

[Royd 0]

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Theists get themselves into intellectual trouble when they try to equate faith with science. They are separate.

Scientists get themselves into trouble, when they tell us just to believe.