Do you have healthcare currently? What is your view on the bill?

[airdvr 197]

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When did my lack of health insurance become anyone's problem but mine?

As soon as you get hurt or sick. Then it becomes everyone else's problem but yours.

But that's the rub to the folks who oppose this version of HC reform. We know that society ultimately pays for those who can't or won't do it for themselves. We just don't like being told we're required to. It really is as simple as that for me.

Take a good look at the mentally retarded population. In Ohio we pay taxes to care for them. You do as well in whatever state you live in. We understand they cannot fend for themselves. I have no problem with being required to contribute.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Amazon 7]

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When did my lack of health insurance become anyone's problem but mine?

As soon as you get hurt or sick. Then it becomes everyone else's problem but yours.

But that's the rub to the folks who oppose this version of HC reform. We know that society ultimately pays for those who can't or won't do it for themselves. We just don't like being told we're required to. It really is as simple as that for me.

Take a good look at the mentally retarded population. In Ohio we pay taxes to care for them. You do as well in whatever state you live in. We understand they cannot fend for themselves. I have no problem with being required to contribute.

Do you call turning them out onto the streets as most states have by closing the mental hospitals...... as ...... taking care of them?????

That is fucked up... and always has been

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/06/26/HOSPITAL_CLOSINGS.ART_ART_06-26-08_B2_HNAJB21.html?type=rss&sid=101

[wmw999 2,121]

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But that's the rub to the folks who oppose this version of HC reform. We know that society ultimately pays for those who can't or won't do it for themselves. We just don't like being told we're required to. It really is as simple as that for me.

My problem is that I object to paying more for someone else's health care so that people who don't want to be required to can whine and moan about it. Or something like that.

As long as we're not willing to let people die by the side of the road when they don't have insurance, we'll be paying for their health care. I'd rather do so as inexpensively as possible, rather than paying a premium.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Amazon 7]

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But that's the rub to the folks who oppose this version of HC reform. We know that society ultimately pays for those who can't or won't do it for themselves. We just don't like being told we're required to. It really is as simple as that for me.

My problem is that I object to paying more for someone else's health care so that people who don't want to be required to can whine and moan about it. Or something like that.

As long as we're not willing to let people die by the side of the road when they don't have insurance, we'll be paying for their health care. I'd rather do so as inexpensively as possible, rather than paying a premium.

Wendy P.

I think most of these people who are so vociferously bitching about this HC bill COMPLETELY forget about preventative care, which saves vast amounts of money by virtue of catching things before they become catastrophic...requiring vastly greater amounts of money to "fix" what could have been prevented in the first place

[kallend 1,623]

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When did my lack of health insurance become anyone's problem but mine?

As soon as you get hurt or sick. Then it becomes everyone else's problem but yours.

But that's the rub to the folks who oppose this version of HC reform. We know that society ultimately pays for those who can't or won't do it for themselves. We just don't like being told we're required to. It really is as simple as that for me.

Take a good look at the mentally retarded population. In Ohio we pay taxes to care for them. You do as well in whatever state you live in. We understand they cannot fend for themselves. I have no problem with being required to contribute.

If you have health insurance you are already REQUIRED to pay for those who can't afford or don't have insurance. They turn up at the ER when sick or injured and the cost of their care ends up in our premiums. whether or not we want it to. Trouble is, that is just about the least efficient way imaginable for the cost of their care to be spread around.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[airdvr 197]

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But that's the rub to the folks who oppose this version of HC reform. We know that society ultimately pays for those who can't or won't do it for themselves. We just don't like being told we're required to. It really is as simple as that for me.

My problem is that I object to paying more for someone else's health care so that people who don't want to be required to can whine and moan about it. Or something like that.

As long as we're not willing to let people die by the side of the road when they don't have insurance, we'll be paying for their health care. I'd rather do so as inexpensively as possible, rather than paying a premium.

Wendy P.

I think most of these people who are so vociferously bitching about this HC bill COMPLETELY forget about preventative care, which saves vast amounts of money by virtue of catching things before they become catastrophic...requiring vastly greater amounts of money to "fix" what could have been prevented in the first place

I don't recall ever saying that reform wasn't needed in HC. Buit if you think this 2000+ page bill just fixed those things you are sadly mistaken.

Let me make a prediction for you...requiring people who don't have insurance to buy insurance WILL NOT fix the problems. Guess what? Those folks won't buy it regardless, and you can impose penalties all day long, they don't pay taxes now so you can't 'enforce' it, and they won't get paid, and you won't get the expected response you would like.

Nothing in this bill addresses the root cause of the problem...high costs of delivering the product. Until you address why it's so expensive to go to the doctor you have accomplished nothing.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Amazon 7]

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Nothing in this bill addresses the root cause of the problem...high costs of delivering the product. Until you address why it's so expensive to go to the doctor you have accomplished nothing.

The fact is, it starts the USA down the road to fixing the problems. All I have seen from the Party of NO WAY JOSE... is to put it off and study the problem for another 100 years.

I guess that is the bottom line for conservatives who thrive with doing nothing out of fear of change in any form

[airdvr 197]

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The fact is, it starts the USA down the road to fixing the problems

So you agree that the bill is crap? All it does is starts on the way?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[kallend 1,623]

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Nothing in this bill addresses the root cause of the problem...high costs of delivering the product. Until you address why it's so expensive to go to the doctor you have accomplished nothing.

And that is because the insurance companies have no incentive to bargain costs down because they just pass them along, and the healthcare consumer is insulated from the cost. A single payer system is the way to fix that problem.

Why does a hospital charge $10 for an aspirin tablet? Because it can.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Amazon 7]

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The fact is, it starts the USA down the road to fixing the problems

So you agree that the bill is crap? All it does is starts on the way?

Without the public option it is not a long term solution to the crooks in the insurance industry, who in many countries would be taken out and shot for the good of society

[airdvr 197]

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Nothing in this bill addresses the root cause of the problem...high costs of delivering the product. Until you address why it's so expensive to go to the doctor you have accomplished nothing.

And that is because the insurance companies have no incentive to bargain costs down because they just pass them along, and the healthcare consumer is insulated from the cost. A single payer system is the way to fix that problem.

Why does a hospital charge $10 for an aspirin tablet? Because it can.

Doesn't make any sense. My recent stay was a $54K bill. My insurance company paid something like $15-17K of it. If that's not knocking down the price I'm not sure what is? The hospital isn't coming after me for the difference. I paid my deductible and max out of pocket. So on a $54K bill everyone got 50%. Actually, some that sent their bill in early got more.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[wmw999 2,121]

The whole bill is not crap. It's not as good as Tom Aiello's original proposal (see the discussion starting with my response -- I couldn't find his original post), but that one would never have been passed.

This bill managed to get passed. If we could get insurance paperwork to be decomplicated somewhat it would be good -- a whole lot right now is taken up by dealing with different companies' insurance plans. Of course, if we did that, then the vast number of insurance clerks would be reduced significantly, and a lot of people would object to that.

Just like I really don't see putting a tax on tanning salons as being a huge problem. Cigarette vendors get screwed, too. But everyone has an opinion.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[kallend 1,623]

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Nothing in this bill addresses the root cause of the problem...high costs of delivering the product. Until you address why it's so expensive to go to the doctor you have accomplished nothing.

And that is because the insurance companies have no incentive to bargain costs down because they just pass them along, and the healthcare consumer is insulated from the cost. A single payer system is the way to fix that problem.

Why does a hospital charge $10 for an aspirin tablet? Because it can.

Doesn't make any sense. My recent stay was a $54K bill. My insurance company paid something like $15-17K of it. If that's not knocking down the price I'm not sure what is? The hospital isn't coming after me for the difference. I paid my deductible and max out of pocket. So on a $54K bill everyone got 50%. Actually, some that sent their bill in early got more.

The $54k is a mythical, meaningless figure. They aren't beating down the price, they're just playing a connived game of confuse the patient.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kelpdiver 2]

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The $54k is a mythical, meaningless figure. They aren't beating down the price, they're just playing a connived game of confuse the patient.

Does anything about this reform actually change that?

[Anvilbrother 0]

How about GTFO my hospital if you can't pay and wont accept the bill to pay later.....

Everyone is afforded the right to make a living in this country, and whoever says they were kept down by something/someone else did not try hard enough or just made bad decisions....

Bad decisions/luck on your part should not automatically become our problems. These people should grow up!

Just like amazon and millions of other people I was not handed a everything I have now. We were poor as fuck growing up, my parents did not have a house decent enough that I would not be embarrassed to have friends over until I turned 17. I went to public school, any activities did not include vacations and theme parks it was playing in the yard. Our vehicles were hardly reliable enough to go to the store, but my parents fought hard, dad drove trucks, and operated machinery, mom worked at a local livestock store.

My first part-time job was loading 50-100lb sacks of horse feed from middle school through high school. When I turned 18 I got hired onto a fire department, and have been there ever since fighting hard to advance, and better my life and the lives of my wife and daughter.

I knew the pay when I went in, and I don't complain, I get up every day, go to work, train my guys, and save lives. Its retarded what some people scream about boo hoo my school loans are so horrible. When I get out of school I have to work for XXX years to pay it off. You knew this going in either you accepted it, or did not think it out.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[billvon 2,396]

>How about GTFO my hospital if you can't pay and wont accept the bill to pay later.....

That's the basic problem. I doubt even you would kick out a dying 12 year old girl who couldn't pay.

>I get up every day, go to work, train my guys, and save lives.

Whose lives do you save?

[Anvilbrother 0]

No I said if you are not willing to take the bill and pay.

This is how they are getting around our system in la. There is a charity hospital that is about to be closed due to age, it's a teaching hospital. If you don't have insurance you go there. Patients are gettng around going there by calling 911 for a toothache stubbed toe and want to go to the good hospitals because now they can't be denied because they are coming in by ambulance. Or the ones that when you show up they tell you they have a dr appointment at a hospital and just need a ride!!!!

I save lives in the community where I work at since 1998. I don't want to get into specifics because I have been bitten in the ass by online forums and discussing work before.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[Lucky... 0]

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There's truth in that, I don't mix well with management. I have more education than most oif them and am more well spoken too, I am just unwilling to crawl under a desk so I have hurt myself. Oh well, I'm not for sale. The way I "roll" is that I live by my own rules. Management usually between dislikes and hates me, but they love ,y work ethic and competence, so they just ignore my tude so as to enjoy the fruits of my labor.

Ok - I believe about half of what you wrote here. Or maybe it's one third.

I don't care, if you had an argument to make, you would. It must suck to post and never make a point.

[kallend 1,623]

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How about GTFO my hospital if you can't pay and wont accept the bill to pay later.....

Nice attitude for someone who professes to save lives.

RIGHT NOW those with insurance are paying for those without. This law, while not perfect (thanks mainly to GOP obstructionism) will at least spread the load more evenly. It also remedies a bunch of clear abuses.

Let's all remember that the Republicans voted AGAINST people with pre-existing conditions, and voted AGAINST people with young adults in their families, voted AGAINST incentives for primary care physicians, voted AGAINST tax credits for small businesses providing health insurance for their workers, and voted to support a system that pays insurance company CEOs $tens of millions while they raise premiums 15-25% per year.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,396]

>Patients are gettng around going there by calling 911 for a toothache
>stubbed toe and want to go to the good hospitals because now they can't
> be denied because they are coming in by ambulance.

Exactly! Think how much we'd save if there was a cheaper option than a 911 call and a hospital ride.

>I save lives in the community where I work at since 1998. I don't want to
>get into specifics because I have been bitten in the ass by online forums
>and discussing work before.

That's cool. Again, I suspect you'd do that even if you knew they couldn't pay.

[Anvilbrother 0]

Yea ur right, it helps to vent but the situation still sucks ass for everyone they want HC I don't like paying through the ass to get it for them. Maybe this bill will do what one says its gonna do for a change.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[Anvilbrother 0]

Ok so how many years do you give the system before you think we can go back and evaluate if it was good or a failure? Theres nothing we can do about it now, but pray there is no unseen backlash that tanks some sector of gov/private, or the economy

I saw a dem today on the ap iphone app that said the mortgage bailout was a failure as they were just announcing that they are about to go forth with legislation for people with loans for their homes that are approx 10-20 percent more than the value of their home. It will require the mortgage lenders to re mortgage the loan so they are not upside down, basically make them eat the loss, or get paid by the govt for their losses I did not see which. I tried like hell to find who said it, but the app had refreshed with new content when i remembered about it

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[kallend 1,623]

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Ok so how many years do you give the system before you think we can go back and evaluate if it was good or a failure? Theres nothing we can do about it now, but pray there is no unseen backlash that tanks some sector of gov/private, or the economy

I saw a dem today on the ap iphone app that said the mortgage bailout was a failure as they were just announcing that they are about to go forth with legislation for people with loans for their homes that are approx 10-20 percent more than the value of their home. It will require the mortgage lenders to re mortgage the loan so they are not upside down, basically make them eat the loss, or get paid by the govt for their losses I did not see which. I tried like hell to find who said it, but the app had refreshed with new content when i remembered about it

Govt. policy didn't tank the housing market. Deregulation, courtesy of people like Phil Gramm, allowed the banks to do it all by themselves. No-one in govt. forced the banks to make sub-prime loans or forced Wall St to invest in mortgage backed securities. No-one in govt. invented credit default swaps or told AIG how to manage their financial affairs.

On the whole I'd rather my taxes went to help homeowners in trouble than to pay huge bonuses to CEOs of the banks that created the mess in the first place.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Anvilbrother 0]

Yea heard they were signing a bill to take effect next summer regulating gift cards! I was happy as shit to see that.

We had a 50 dollar gift card from valentines day through visa we checked the balance before we left. Went to movies 21 bucks went to eat 25 bucks, knowing there should be about 29 on there, I told the waitress to put it on the gift card, and I would leave cash, she came back and told me there was only 20 on the card!! I called the number entered the pin and sure enough it was gone, got to looking they charge 5 bucks every time you use it!

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[airdvr 197]

Well, while we're placing blame and pointing fingers let's make sure we get some props in there for a Dem controlled congress that voted against the will of the people, voted for tax increases disguised as fees, voted to force individuals to purchase a private product, and did it all so transparently.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne