Airman1270 0 #176 March 9, 2010 Quote>I have applied for jobs and was not hired, but I never considered the >courts an appropriate response. OK. Let's turn this around. You are hired for a job that you are qualified for. You show up for the first day of work, and your supervisor sees you wearing a cross. He tells you "you're not welcome here; no doctor-killers are going to work for me." You are then told you no longer have the job. Would you be OK with that? _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Depends on what you mean by "OK with that." If you mean would I be annoyed, yes. If you mean would I have a legal case against the company, perhaps, but mostly no. But what are the ground rules? Depending on circumstances I might file a discrimination suit under the current system, but at the same time I'm all for discarding the current legal climate and restoring full rights to business owners to hire & fire as they please. This means that the boss can decide who will and will not work there, for any reason, and doesn't have to explain his decisions to a judge. He would be free to refuse to hire me because I play in a kick-ass church band. He would also be free to refuse to hire someone for ANY other reason, including the fact that the applicant listed his First place finish in 2007's Miss Fire Island contest on his resume. Quite revealing is your description of someone wearing a cross as a "doctor killer." Interesting that this is among the first thoughts that come to mind, given the lopsided ratio of Christians who have committed such violence vs. those who have not. Kinda like claiming that a dozen or so skydivers have behaved poorly in local pizza restaurants on a handful of Saturday evenings over the past 40 years or so, therefore all skydivers should either be banned from pizza restaurants or at least watched very closely. Cheers, Jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,380 #177 March 9, 2010 >If you mean would I be annoyed, yes. OK, fair enough. >Depending on circumstances I might file a discrimination suit under the current system . . . Which is precisely what Robin Shahar did. Sounds like you would agree with her that filing suit is the appropriate response to such discrimination. >Quite revealing is your description of someone wearing a cross as >a "doctor killer." It is as accurate as characterizing lesbians who want to marry as criminals. >Interesting that this is among the first thoughts that come to mind, given >the lopsided ratio of Christians who have committed such violence vs. >those who have not. I think you are starting to understand my point there. >Kinda like claiming that a dozen or so skydivers have behaved poorly in >local pizza restaurants on a handful of Saturday evenings over the past >40 years or so, therefore all skydivers should either be banned from >pizza restaurants or at least watched very closely. Yep. That would be as stupid as generalizing about lesbians (or Christians.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,254 #178 March 9, 2010 QuoteIf you call me a doctor or an air traffic controller or a teenager or a meth addict or a cross-dressing fruitcake or a USPA "coach" or a queer I will be offended because it's not true... And please don't get your panties in a wad about the word queer. It simply means "unusual." Then you're a queer.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,254 #179 March 9, 2010 QuoteEver hear about the delightful people who ran Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, China, Cuba, etc. Hint: Atheists. Hint: Wrong. History not your strong point, eh?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RackJR 0 #180 March 9, 2010 Quote My information was accurate. please tell me the article you read. i mean exactly, like link it here so everyone can read the same article. i linked one, you either didn't bother to read it or dismissed it because it didn't support your position. i don't care which. but i'd like to read what you read that formed this opinion. QuoteYes I am angry at being called a bigot because it is not true. Quotef you call me a doctor or an air traffic controller or a teenager or a meth addict or a cross-dressing fruitcake or a USPA "coach" or a queer I will be offended because it's not true sorry i just don't buy it that you'd be offended if someone called you a doctor or air traffic controller. confused maybe. QuoteAnd please don't get your panties in a wad about the word queer. It simply means "unusual." I don't do political correctness. don't get your panties in a wad about the word bigot. i'm gonna apply that to anyone who uses derogatory terms like nigger, spick, slant, spook, or queer. guess i don't do political correctness either. just like to call a spade a spade. queer adj 1.strange or odd from a conventional viewpoint; unusually different; singular: a queer notion of justice. 2.of a questionable nature or character; suspicious; shady: Something queer about the language of the prospectus kept investors away. 3.not feeling physically right or well; giddy, faint, or qualmish: to feel queer. 4.mentally unbalanced or deranged. 5.Slang: Disparaging and Offensive. a.homosexual. b.effeminate; unmanly. 6.Slang. bad, worthless, or counterfeit. 10.Slang: Disparaging and Offensive. a homosexual, esp. a male homosexual. i only added the emphasis. this is from dictionary.com, if you'd like to look for yourself, which i doubt, because it doesn't support your position. Say what you mean. Do what you say. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Airman1270 0 #181 March 9, 2010 ...Depending on circumstances I might file a discrimination suit under the current system . . . Which is precisely what Robin Shahar did. Sounds like you would agree with her that filing suit is the appropriate response to such discrimination... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ She was not denied the job because she's a queer. She was denied the job due to her poor judgement, combined with an in-your-face attitude. No employer is obligated to hire someone simply because they claim to be gay. Revealing irrelevant personal information during an interview is a huge red flag. She was treated no differently than I could expect to be treated if I had done the same thing. This wasn't "discrimination," it was plain common sense. Cheers, Jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RonD1120 58 #182 March 9, 2010 Quote>I have applied for jobs and was not hired, but I never considered the >courts an appropriate response. OK. Let's turn this around. You are hired for a job that you are qualified for. You show up for the first day of work, and your supervisor sees you wearing a cross. He tells you "you're not welcome here; no doctor-killers are going to work for me." You are then told you no longer have the job. Would you be OK with that? That is legal in FL because this is a right-to-work state. I am comfortable with that practice. However, the reality is that Christianity must be covert in most work situations. It is wise for homosexuals to follow the same concept.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Airman1270 0 #183 March 9, 2010 QuoteQuoteEver hear about the delightful people who ran Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, China, Cuba, etc. Hint: Atheists. Hint: Wrong. History not your strong point, eh?... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ It sure isn't yours if you're claiming that the nazis were driven by commitment to New Testament teaching. Hitler may have attended church as a kid, but as a young man he turned his back on his faith. Exactly what nazi policies are you saying were consistent with the words of Jesus? Cheers, Jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 0 #184 March 9, 2010 QuoteQuote>I have applied for jobs and was not hired, but I never considered the >courts an appropriate response. OK. Let's turn this around. You are hired for a job that you are qualified for. You show up for the first day of work, and your supervisor sees you wearing a cross. He tells you "you're not welcome here; no doctor-killers are going to work for me." You are then told you no longer have the job. Would you be OK with that? That is legal in FL because this is a right-to-work state. I am comfortable with that practice. However, the reality is that Christianity must be covert in most work situations. It is wise for homosexuals to follow the same concept. No, it would not be legal, because it would be discrimination against the person due to his religion, even if that discrimination is thinly-veiled by the pretext of being something else. That's basic employment discrimination law. It's also utter bollocks that Christianity must be covert in the workplace. Not a day goes by just about anywhere in the US when one will not see a woman in her workplace wearing a necklace with a cross on it. If you're trying to assert that a Christian is under the same social pressure to keep his religious affiliation secret in the workplace as a homosexual is under social pressure to keep his sexuality secret in the workplace, that's utter rubbish. Once again, you're asserting the "Christians as victims in the US" line. Outside of FoxNews, everyone knows that's completely laughable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Airman1270 0 #185 March 9, 2010 ...It is as accurate as characterizing lesbians who want to marry as criminals... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ If a lesbian wants to marry, she has that right. Simply find a guy who wants to marry her and go for it. Don't know what the point would be, but she is free to marry if she wants to. Nobody is trying to make this a crime. Cheers, Jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RonD1120 58 #186 March 9, 2010 Quote No, it would not be legal, because it would be discrimination against the person due to his religion, even if that discrimination is thinly-veiled by the pretext of being something else. That's basic employment discrimination law. It's also utter bollocks that Christianity must be covert in the workplace. Not a day goes by just about anywhere in the US when one will not see a woman in her workplace wearing a necklace with a cross on it. If you're trying to assert that a Christian is under the same social pressure to keep his religious affiliation secret in the workplace as a homosexual is under social pressure to keep his sexuality secret in the workplace, that's utter rubbish. Once again, you're asserting the "Christians as victims in the US" line. Outside of FoxNews, everyone knows that's completely laughable. Every social service non-profit corporation where I have been employed made it quite clear at HR orientation that I could be fired without cause for any reason at any time. I include the one Christian organization and the one quasi-Christian organization where I worked as well. Wearing a cross necklace, that is probably not such a big deal. However, discussing your faith, church activities, the Bible, etc. during work hours in the work place could get you into trouble. Your can talk "Higher Power" but you best not get more specific than that. There is just something about the name of Jesus Christ. You understand the law but, you lack understanding of the social services work arena. Might makes right and Christians lack power. Mark 13:13 " You will be hated by all because of My name, but the one who endures to the end, he will be savedLook for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RackJR 0 #187 March 9, 2010 "... I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews. I am doing the Lord's work." -adolf hitler, mein kampf "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so." -adolf hitler, to general gerhart engel also according to a poll by the Russian Public Opinion Research Center, 63% of respondents considered themselves Russian Orthodox, 6% of respondents considered themselves Muslim and less than 1% considered themselves either Buddhist, Catholic, Protestant or Jewish. Another 12% said they believe in God, but did not practice any religion, and 16% said they are non-believers. i'd love to hear your problem with soviet russia? our ww2 allies that we then vilified during the cold war but are now our allies again? enlighten me. The People's Republic of China was established in 1949. Its government is officially atheist, which viewed religion as emblematic of feudalism and foreign colonialism. Religious belief or practice was banned because it was regarded as backward and superstitious by some of the communist leaders, from Vladimir Lenin to Mao Zedong, who had been critical of religious institutions. please, enlighten me again. Cuba is traditionally a Catholic country. The Roman Catholic Church estimates that 60 percent of the population is Catholic. But the Catholic Church is subject to government restrictions, and it is not allowed to have its own schools or media. willing to do it again? just curious why you listed these countries. i understand your "mistake" about hitler, it's one that christians have tried with fair success to spread, despite all evidence to the contrary. never let the truth stand in the way of a good story. but i'm actually curious what charges you're leveling against russia, china, and cuba. fine if you need to call me uneducated, but then briefly, educate me. Say what you mean. Do what you say. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 0 #188 March 9, 2010 QuoteQuote No, it would not be legal, because it would be discrimination against the person due to his religion, even if that discrimination is thinly-veiled by the pretext of being something else. That's basic employment discrimination law. It's also utter bollocks that Christianity must be covert in the workplace. Not a day goes by just about anywhere in the US when one will not see a woman in her workplace wearing a necklace with a cross on it. If you're trying to assert that a Christian is under the same social pressure to keep his religious affiliation secret in the workplace as a homosexual is under social pressure to keep his sexuality secret in the workplace, that's utter rubbish. Once again, you're asserting the "Christians as victims in the US" line. Outside of FoxNews, everyone knows that's completely laughable. Every social service non-profit corporation where I have been employed made it quite clear at HR orientation that I could be fired without cause for any reason at any time. I include the one Christian organization and the one quasi-Christian organization where I worked as well. Wearing a cross necklace, that is probably not such a big deal. However, discussing your faith, church activities, the Bible, etc. during work hours in the work place could get you into trouble. Your can talk "Higher Power" but you best not get more specific than that. There is just something about the name of Jesus Christ. You understand the law but, you lack understanding of the social services work arena. FYI, I've done a huge amount of work in the social services arena, as a paralegal before I went back to school, as a lawyer and as a volunteer serving on various community non-profits' boards of directors. What you describe - the discomfort with discussing religion in the workplace - is not targeted at Christians in particular; it's just that Christians are by far the most numerous religious group in the US. The purpose of those policies is not to discriminate; quite the opposite: it is to protect those who don't want to hear other people's opinions about religion in the workplace from having to choose between the lesser of either (a) being forced to listen to it (or to be drawn into a discussion about it), or (b) risk hostility or ostracization from co-workers in retaliation for saying "I come here to work, not to talk about religion." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,254 #189 March 9, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteEver hear about the delightful people who ran Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, China, Cuba, etc. Hint: Atheists. Hint: Wrong. History not your strong point, eh?... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ It sure isn't yours if you're claiming that the nazis were driven by commitment to New Testament teaching. Hitler may have attended church as a kid, but as a young man he turned his back on his faith. Exactly what nazi policies are you saying were consistent with the words of Jesus? Reading's not your strong point either, is it? Actually, I'm struggling to think what is...Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Airman1270 0 #190 March 10, 2010 ...queer adj... ...mentally unbalanced or deranged. 5.Slang: Disparaging and Offensive. a.homosexual. b.effeminate; unmanly. 6.Slang. bad, worthless, or counterfeit. 10.Slang: Disparaging and Offensive. a homosexual, esp. a male homosexual. i only added the emphasis. this is from dictionary.com, if you'd like to look for yourself, which i doubt... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ You already have. Nice work. Cheers, Jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Airman1270 0 #191 March 10, 2010 ...but i'm actually curious what charges you're leveling against russia, china, and cuba. fine if you need to call me uneducated, but then briefly, educate me... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Just like nazi Germany: If you didn't do what they told you to do, you could be arrested and/or shot by police. Or worse. Kinda like today's Democrat-controlled America. Cheers, Jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,380 #192 March 10, 2010 Yes. America is just like Nazi Germany. Congratulations; you've made the dumbest argument on the thread to date. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,254 #193 March 10, 2010 Quote Yes. America is just like Nazi Germany. Congratulations; you've made the dumbest argument on the thread to date. To be fair, he's already said that WASPs are about to be put into BoxcarsDo you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Mike111 0 #194 March 10, 2010 Well at least she didn't win the competition for brains or intellectual statement of the year. Disgusting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RonD1120 58 #195 March 10, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuote No, it would not be legal, because it would be discrimination against the person due to his religion, even if that discrimination is thinly-veiled by the pretext of being something else. That's basic employment discrimination law. It's also utter bollocks that Christianity must be covert in the workplace. Not a day goes by just about anywhere in the US when one will not see a woman in her workplace wearing a necklace with a cross on it. If you're trying to assert that a Christian is under the same social pressure to keep his religious affiliation secret in the workplace as a homosexual is under social pressure to keep his sexuality secret in the workplace, that's utter rubbish. Once again, you're asserting the "Christians as victims in the US" line. Outside of FoxNews, everyone knows that's completely laughable. Every social service non-profit corporation where I have been employed made it quite clear at HR orientation that I could be fired without cause for any reason at any time. I include the one Christian organization and the one quasi-Christian organization where I worked as well. Wearing a cross necklace, that is probably not such a big deal. However, discussing your faith, church activities, the Bible, etc. during work hours in the work place could get you into trouble. Your can talk "Higher Power" but you best not get more specific than that. There is just something about the name of Jesus Christ. You understand the law but, you lack understanding of the social services work arena. FYI, I've done a huge amount of work in the social services arena, as a paralegal before I went back to school, as a lawyer and as a volunteer serving on various community non-profits' boards of directors. What you describe - the discomfort with discussing religion in the workplace - is not targeted at Christians in particular; it's just that Christians are by far the most numerous religious group in the US. The purpose of those policies is not to discriminate; quite the opposite: it is to protect those who don't want to hear other people's opinions about religion in the workplace from having to choose between the lesser of either (a) being forced to listen to it (or to be drawn into a discussion about it), or (b) risk hostility or ostracization from co-workers in retaliation for saying "I come here to work, not to talk about religion." You confirmed what I stated previously. Your experience was in the executive level and the board room. At that level policy is discussed and determined. All seems right, fair, just and legal amongst upper management. My experience was in the trenches as middle management. I had to be very much on guard as did the counselors and technicians. The end result is a general lack of trust between co-workers that reduces the bond needed for best possible treatment for the client and comfort in the workplace. If you want to keep your paycheck, you do not discuss anything but the rules for satisfying the funding agencies. This atmosphere not only effects Christians but all personal rapport. Therefore, cliques develop and co-workers become antagonistic toward other cliques. Nobody trusts upper management concerning their welfare. Morale is lowered and people tend to do the minimum required and above all, watch your back. Like I said, you understand law and policy but lack understanding at the employee level. I do not intend for my comments to come across as a put down. It is merely a position report of my opinion based on my experience.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RonD1120 58 #196 March 10, 2010 And, tagging on at the end, another example of the bias and prejudice in CA. http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=928020 QuoteChristian's speech deemed 'hateful propaganda' A Christian student in the Los Angeles Community College District is carrying his free-speech case to the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals. Jonathan Lopez had an assignment in a public speaking class and was required to give an informative speech on any topic. Alliance Defense Fund (ADF) attorney David Hacker tells OneNewsNow that Lopez chose to speak about his Christian beliefs. "And during that speech, when he mentioned that marriage is between a man and a woman according to his Christian beliefs, the professor called him this horrible name, refused to let him finish the assignment, and told other students in the class, 'If you're offended, you can leave,'" Hacker explains. When no students left, the professor dismissed the class. Hacker adds that Lopez is an "A" student -- "but the problem is he never got a grade on that informative speech, and in fact, the professor wrote on his evaluation form, 'Ask God what your grade is.'" The ADF attorney argues that demonstrates the hostility towards religion on many college campuses. The lower court in Los Angeles issued a preliminary injunction against the school, saying its speech code -- allowing administrators to punish Lopez's "hateful propaganda" -- is unconstitutional. That has been appealed to the Ninth Circuit. The court ruled the school was violating the student's rights. The school is appealing.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 0 #197 March 10, 2010 QuoteYour experience was in the executive level and the board room. No it wasn't; it was in the trenches, dealing directly with the clients and their social service providers. I have essentially been (among many other things) an adjunct social worker for most of my career. This is getting old. You'd really do so much better playing the ball and not the player. You just cannot seem to get that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 0 #198 March 10, 2010 QuoteThe court ruled the school was violating the student's rights. Exactly! A few jerks stupidly do the wrong thing, and mainstream society forces them to do the right thing. As it should be. Hardly sounds like a "war on Christians in America" to me. QuoteThe school is appealing. I'd predict the school will probably lose there, too. As it should be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GeorgiaDon 340 #199 March 10, 2010 I wonder if you were involved in one of the faith-based organizations that got federal funding under the last (and maybe this) administration? Any organization that got those grants had to be careful to use the money only to deliver services, not to preach. Crossing that line would mean that federal tax dollars would be used to promote a religion, which is of course unconstitutional. You may disagree that it should be unconstitutional, but I think the separation of church and state is a master stroke of the Founding Fathers that has guaranteed religious freedom in this country, including the freedom to prefer Bronze Age mythology over science. Anyway them's the rules, if you take the federal grants you can't use the money to preach. Don't like the rules? Don't take the money. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #200 March 10, 2010 QuoteYou are hired for a job that you are qualified for. You show up for the first day of work, and your supervisor sees you wearing a cross. He tells you "you're not welcome here; no doctor-killers are going to work for me." You are then told you no longer have the job. Would you be OK with that? I'd be totally OK with that. Whew! I found out the guy I would have been working for was a total asshole in my way of thinking...and I found out before I had to deal with it on a daily basis! It's a simple matter of: 1. not get into it in the first place, or 2. have to extract yourself short time laterMy reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 Next Page 8 of 13 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
billvon 2,380 #177 March 9, 2010 >If you mean would I be annoyed, yes. OK, fair enough. >Depending on circumstances I might file a discrimination suit under the current system . . . Which is precisely what Robin Shahar did. Sounds like you would agree with her that filing suit is the appropriate response to such discrimination. >Quite revealing is your description of someone wearing a cross as >a "doctor killer." It is as accurate as characterizing lesbians who want to marry as criminals. >Interesting that this is among the first thoughts that come to mind, given >the lopsided ratio of Christians who have committed such violence vs. >those who have not. I think you are starting to understand my point there. >Kinda like claiming that a dozen or so skydivers have behaved poorly in >local pizza restaurants on a handful of Saturday evenings over the past >40 years or so, therefore all skydivers should either be banned from >pizza restaurants or at least watched very closely. Yep. That would be as stupid as generalizing about lesbians (or Christians.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #178 March 9, 2010 QuoteIf you call me a doctor or an air traffic controller or a teenager or a meth addict or a cross-dressing fruitcake or a USPA "coach" or a queer I will be offended because it's not true... And please don't get your panties in a wad about the word queer. It simply means "unusual." Then you're a queer.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #179 March 9, 2010 QuoteEver hear about the delightful people who ran Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, China, Cuba, etc. Hint: Atheists. Hint: Wrong. History not your strong point, eh?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RackJR 0 #180 March 9, 2010 Quote My information was accurate. please tell me the article you read. i mean exactly, like link it here so everyone can read the same article. i linked one, you either didn't bother to read it or dismissed it because it didn't support your position. i don't care which. but i'd like to read what you read that formed this opinion. QuoteYes I am angry at being called a bigot because it is not true. Quotef you call me a doctor or an air traffic controller or a teenager or a meth addict or a cross-dressing fruitcake or a USPA "coach" or a queer I will be offended because it's not true sorry i just don't buy it that you'd be offended if someone called you a doctor or air traffic controller. confused maybe. QuoteAnd please don't get your panties in a wad about the word queer. It simply means "unusual." I don't do political correctness. don't get your panties in a wad about the word bigot. i'm gonna apply that to anyone who uses derogatory terms like nigger, spick, slant, spook, or queer. guess i don't do political correctness either. just like to call a spade a spade. queer adj 1.strange or odd from a conventional viewpoint; unusually different; singular: a queer notion of justice. 2.of a questionable nature or character; suspicious; shady: Something queer about the language of the prospectus kept investors away. 3.not feeling physically right or well; giddy, faint, or qualmish: to feel queer. 4.mentally unbalanced or deranged. 5.Slang: Disparaging and Offensive. a.homosexual. b.effeminate; unmanly. 6.Slang. bad, worthless, or counterfeit. 10.Slang: Disparaging and Offensive. a homosexual, esp. a male homosexual. i only added the emphasis. this is from dictionary.com, if you'd like to look for yourself, which i doubt, because it doesn't support your position. Say what you mean. Do what you say. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airman1270 0 #181 March 9, 2010 ...Depending on circumstances I might file a discrimination suit under the current system . . . Which is precisely what Robin Shahar did. Sounds like you would agree with her that filing suit is the appropriate response to such discrimination... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ She was not denied the job because she's a queer. She was denied the job due to her poor judgement, combined with an in-your-face attitude. No employer is obligated to hire someone simply because they claim to be gay. Revealing irrelevant personal information during an interview is a huge red flag. She was treated no differently than I could expect to be treated if I had done the same thing. This wasn't "discrimination," it was plain common sense. Cheers, Jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #182 March 9, 2010 Quote>I have applied for jobs and was not hired, but I never considered the >courts an appropriate response. OK. Let's turn this around. You are hired for a job that you are qualified for. You show up for the first day of work, and your supervisor sees you wearing a cross. He tells you "you're not welcome here; no doctor-killers are going to work for me." You are then told you no longer have the job. Would you be OK with that? That is legal in FL because this is a right-to-work state. I am comfortable with that practice. However, the reality is that Christianity must be covert in most work situations. It is wise for homosexuals to follow the same concept.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airman1270 0 #183 March 9, 2010 QuoteQuoteEver hear about the delightful people who ran Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, China, Cuba, etc. Hint: Atheists. Hint: Wrong. History not your strong point, eh?... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ It sure isn't yours if you're claiming that the nazis were driven by commitment to New Testament teaching. Hitler may have attended church as a kid, but as a young man he turned his back on his faith. Exactly what nazi policies are you saying were consistent with the words of Jesus? Cheers, Jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 0 #184 March 9, 2010 QuoteQuote>I have applied for jobs and was not hired, but I never considered the >courts an appropriate response. OK. Let's turn this around. You are hired for a job that you are qualified for. You show up for the first day of work, and your supervisor sees you wearing a cross. He tells you "you're not welcome here; no doctor-killers are going to work for me." You are then told you no longer have the job. Would you be OK with that? That is legal in FL because this is a right-to-work state. I am comfortable with that practice. However, the reality is that Christianity must be covert in most work situations. It is wise for homosexuals to follow the same concept. No, it would not be legal, because it would be discrimination against the person due to his religion, even if that discrimination is thinly-veiled by the pretext of being something else. That's basic employment discrimination law. It's also utter bollocks that Christianity must be covert in the workplace. Not a day goes by just about anywhere in the US when one will not see a woman in her workplace wearing a necklace with a cross on it. If you're trying to assert that a Christian is under the same social pressure to keep his religious affiliation secret in the workplace as a homosexual is under social pressure to keep his sexuality secret in the workplace, that's utter rubbish. Once again, you're asserting the "Christians as victims in the US" line. Outside of FoxNews, everyone knows that's completely laughable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Airman1270 0 #185 March 9, 2010 ...It is as accurate as characterizing lesbians who want to marry as criminals... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ If a lesbian wants to marry, she has that right. Simply find a guy who wants to marry her and go for it. Don't know what the point would be, but she is free to marry if she wants to. Nobody is trying to make this a crime. Cheers, Jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RonD1120 58 #186 March 9, 2010 Quote No, it would not be legal, because it would be discrimination against the person due to his religion, even if that discrimination is thinly-veiled by the pretext of being something else. That's basic employment discrimination law. It's also utter bollocks that Christianity must be covert in the workplace. Not a day goes by just about anywhere in the US when one will not see a woman in her workplace wearing a necklace with a cross on it. If you're trying to assert that a Christian is under the same social pressure to keep his religious affiliation secret in the workplace as a homosexual is under social pressure to keep his sexuality secret in the workplace, that's utter rubbish. Once again, you're asserting the "Christians as victims in the US" line. Outside of FoxNews, everyone knows that's completely laughable. Every social service non-profit corporation where I have been employed made it quite clear at HR orientation that I could be fired without cause for any reason at any time. I include the one Christian organization and the one quasi-Christian organization where I worked as well. Wearing a cross necklace, that is probably not such a big deal. However, discussing your faith, church activities, the Bible, etc. during work hours in the work place could get you into trouble. Your can talk "Higher Power" but you best not get more specific than that. There is just something about the name of Jesus Christ. You understand the law but, you lack understanding of the social services work arena. Might makes right and Christians lack power. Mark 13:13 " You will be hated by all because of My name, but the one who endures to the end, he will be savedLook for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RackJR 0 #187 March 9, 2010 "... I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews. I am doing the Lord's work." -adolf hitler, mein kampf "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so." -adolf hitler, to general gerhart engel also according to a poll by the Russian Public Opinion Research Center, 63% of respondents considered themselves Russian Orthodox, 6% of respondents considered themselves Muslim and less than 1% considered themselves either Buddhist, Catholic, Protestant or Jewish. Another 12% said they believe in God, but did not practice any religion, and 16% said they are non-believers. i'd love to hear your problem with soviet russia? our ww2 allies that we then vilified during the cold war but are now our allies again? enlighten me. The People's Republic of China was established in 1949. Its government is officially atheist, which viewed religion as emblematic of feudalism and foreign colonialism. Religious belief or practice was banned because it was regarded as backward and superstitious by some of the communist leaders, from Vladimir Lenin to Mao Zedong, who had been critical of religious institutions. please, enlighten me again. Cuba is traditionally a Catholic country. The Roman Catholic Church estimates that 60 percent of the population is Catholic. But the Catholic Church is subject to government restrictions, and it is not allowed to have its own schools or media. willing to do it again? just curious why you listed these countries. i understand your "mistake" about hitler, it's one that christians have tried with fair success to spread, despite all evidence to the contrary. never let the truth stand in the way of a good story. but i'm actually curious what charges you're leveling against russia, china, and cuba. fine if you need to call me uneducated, but then briefly, educate me. Say what you mean. Do what you say. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 0 #188 March 9, 2010 QuoteQuote No, it would not be legal, because it would be discrimination against the person due to his religion, even if that discrimination is thinly-veiled by the pretext of being something else. That's basic employment discrimination law. It's also utter bollocks that Christianity must be covert in the workplace. Not a day goes by just about anywhere in the US when one will not see a woman in her workplace wearing a necklace with a cross on it. If you're trying to assert that a Christian is under the same social pressure to keep his religious affiliation secret in the workplace as a homosexual is under social pressure to keep his sexuality secret in the workplace, that's utter rubbish. Once again, you're asserting the "Christians as victims in the US" line. Outside of FoxNews, everyone knows that's completely laughable. Every social service non-profit corporation where I have been employed made it quite clear at HR orientation that I could be fired without cause for any reason at any time. I include the one Christian organization and the one quasi-Christian organization where I worked as well. Wearing a cross necklace, that is probably not such a big deal. However, discussing your faith, church activities, the Bible, etc. during work hours in the work place could get you into trouble. Your can talk "Higher Power" but you best not get more specific than that. There is just something about the name of Jesus Christ. You understand the law but, you lack understanding of the social services work arena. FYI, I've done a huge amount of work in the social services arena, as a paralegal before I went back to school, as a lawyer and as a volunteer serving on various community non-profits' boards of directors. What you describe - the discomfort with discussing religion in the workplace - is not targeted at Christians in particular; it's just that Christians are by far the most numerous religious group in the US. The purpose of those policies is not to discriminate; quite the opposite: it is to protect those who don't want to hear other people's opinions about religion in the workplace from having to choose between the lesser of either (a) being forced to listen to it (or to be drawn into a discussion about it), or (b) risk hostility or ostracization from co-workers in retaliation for saying "I come here to work, not to talk about religion." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,254 #189 March 9, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteEver hear about the delightful people who ran Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, China, Cuba, etc. Hint: Atheists. Hint: Wrong. History not your strong point, eh?... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ It sure isn't yours if you're claiming that the nazis were driven by commitment to New Testament teaching. Hitler may have attended church as a kid, but as a young man he turned his back on his faith. Exactly what nazi policies are you saying were consistent with the words of Jesus? Reading's not your strong point either, is it? Actually, I'm struggling to think what is...Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Airman1270 0 #190 March 10, 2010 ...queer adj... ...mentally unbalanced or deranged. 5.Slang: Disparaging and Offensive. a.homosexual. b.effeminate; unmanly. 6.Slang. bad, worthless, or counterfeit. 10.Slang: Disparaging and Offensive. a homosexual, esp. a male homosexual. i only added the emphasis. this is from dictionary.com, if you'd like to look for yourself, which i doubt... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ You already have. Nice work. Cheers, Jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Airman1270 0 #191 March 10, 2010 ...but i'm actually curious what charges you're leveling against russia, china, and cuba. fine if you need to call me uneducated, but then briefly, educate me... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Just like nazi Germany: If you didn't do what they told you to do, you could be arrested and/or shot by police. Or worse. Kinda like today's Democrat-controlled America. Cheers, Jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,380 #192 March 10, 2010 Yes. America is just like Nazi Germany. Congratulations; you've made the dumbest argument on the thread to date. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,254 #193 March 10, 2010 Quote Yes. America is just like Nazi Germany. Congratulations; you've made the dumbest argument on the thread to date. To be fair, he's already said that WASPs are about to be put into BoxcarsDo you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Mike111 0 #194 March 10, 2010 Well at least she didn't win the competition for brains or intellectual statement of the year. Disgusting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RonD1120 58 #195 March 10, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuote No, it would not be legal, because it would be discrimination against the person due to his religion, even if that discrimination is thinly-veiled by the pretext of being something else. That's basic employment discrimination law. It's also utter bollocks that Christianity must be covert in the workplace. Not a day goes by just about anywhere in the US when one will not see a woman in her workplace wearing a necklace with a cross on it. If you're trying to assert that a Christian is under the same social pressure to keep his religious affiliation secret in the workplace as a homosexual is under social pressure to keep his sexuality secret in the workplace, that's utter rubbish. Once again, you're asserting the "Christians as victims in the US" line. Outside of FoxNews, everyone knows that's completely laughable. Every social service non-profit corporation where I have been employed made it quite clear at HR orientation that I could be fired without cause for any reason at any time. I include the one Christian organization and the one quasi-Christian organization where I worked as well. Wearing a cross necklace, that is probably not such a big deal. However, discussing your faith, church activities, the Bible, etc. during work hours in the work place could get you into trouble. Your can talk "Higher Power" but you best not get more specific than that. There is just something about the name of Jesus Christ. You understand the law but, you lack understanding of the social services work arena. FYI, I've done a huge amount of work in the social services arena, as a paralegal before I went back to school, as a lawyer and as a volunteer serving on various community non-profits' boards of directors. What you describe - the discomfort with discussing religion in the workplace - is not targeted at Christians in particular; it's just that Christians are by far the most numerous religious group in the US. The purpose of those policies is not to discriminate; quite the opposite: it is to protect those who don't want to hear other people's opinions about religion in the workplace from having to choose between the lesser of either (a) being forced to listen to it (or to be drawn into a discussion about it), or (b) risk hostility or ostracization from co-workers in retaliation for saying "I come here to work, not to talk about religion." You confirmed what I stated previously. Your experience was in the executive level and the board room. At that level policy is discussed and determined. All seems right, fair, just and legal amongst upper management. My experience was in the trenches as middle management. I had to be very much on guard as did the counselors and technicians. The end result is a general lack of trust between co-workers that reduces the bond needed for best possible treatment for the client and comfort in the workplace. If you want to keep your paycheck, you do not discuss anything but the rules for satisfying the funding agencies. This atmosphere not only effects Christians but all personal rapport. Therefore, cliques develop and co-workers become antagonistic toward other cliques. Nobody trusts upper management concerning their welfare. Morale is lowered and people tend to do the minimum required and above all, watch your back. Like I said, you understand law and policy but lack understanding at the employee level. I do not intend for my comments to come across as a put down. It is merely a position report of my opinion based on my experience.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RonD1120 58 #196 March 10, 2010 And, tagging on at the end, another example of the bias and prejudice in CA. http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=928020 QuoteChristian's speech deemed 'hateful propaganda' A Christian student in the Los Angeles Community College District is carrying his free-speech case to the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals. Jonathan Lopez had an assignment in a public speaking class and was required to give an informative speech on any topic. Alliance Defense Fund (ADF) attorney David Hacker tells OneNewsNow that Lopez chose to speak about his Christian beliefs. "And during that speech, when he mentioned that marriage is between a man and a woman according to his Christian beliefs, the professor called him this horrible name, refused to let him finish the assignment, and told other students in the class, 'If you're offended, you can leave,'" Hacker explains. When no students left, the professor dismissed the class. Hacker adds that Lopez is an "A" student -- "but the problem is he never got a grade on that informative speech, and in fact, the professor wrote on his evaluation form, 'Ask God what your grade is.'" The ADF attorney argues that demonstrates the hostility towards religion on many college campuses. The lower court in Los Angeles issued a preliminary injunction against the school, saying its speech code -- allowing administrators to punish Lopez's "hateful propaganda" -- is unconstitutional. That has been appealed to the Ninth Circuit. The court ruled the school was violating the student's rights. The school is appealing.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 0 #197 March 10, 2010 QuoteYour experience was in the executive level and the board room. No it wasn't; it was in the trenches, dealing directly with the clients and their social service providers. I have essentially been (among many other things) an adjunct social worker for most of my career. This is getting old. You'd really do so much better playing the ball and not the player. You just cannot seem to get that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 0 #198 March 10, 2010 QuoteThe court ruled the school was violating the student's rights. Exactly! A few jerks stupidly do the wrong thing, and mainstream society forces them to do the right thing. As it should be. Hardly sounds like a "war on Christians in America" to me. QuoteThe school is appealing. I'd predict the school will probably lose there, too. As it should be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GeorgiaDon 340 #199 March 10, 2010 I wonder if you were involved in one of the faith-based organizations that got federal funding under the last (and maybe this) administration? Any organization that got those grants had to be careful to use the money only to deliver services, not to preach. Crossing that line would mean that federal tax dollars would be used to promote a religion, which is of course unconstitutional. You may disagree that it should be unconstitutional, but I think the separation of church and state is a master stroke of the Founding Fathers that has guaranteed religious freedom in this country, including the freedom to prefer Bronze Age mythology over science. Anyway them's the rules, if you take the federal grants you can't use the money to preach. Don't like the rules? Don't take the money. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #200 March 10, 2010 QuoteYou are hired for a job that you are qualified for. You show up for the first day of work, and your supervisor sees you wearing a cross. He tells you "you're not welcome here; no doctor-killers are going to work for me." You are then told you no longer have the job. Would you be OK with that? I'd be totally OK with that. Whew! I found out the guy I would have been working for was a total asshole in my way of thinking...and I found out before I had to deal with it on a daily basis! It's a simple matter of: 1. not get into it in the first place, or 2. have to extract yourself short time laterMy reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 Next Page 8 of 13 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
Andy9o8 0 #184 March 9, 2010 QuoteQuote>I have applied for jobs and was not hired, but I never considered the >courts an appropriate response. OK. Let's turn this around. You are hired for a job that you are qualified for. You show up for the first day of work, and your supervisor sees you wearing a cross. He tells you "you're not welcome here; no doctor-killers are going to work for me." You are then told you no longer have the job. Would you be OK with that? That is legal in FL because this is a right-to-work state. I am comfortable with that practice. However, the reality is that Christianity must be covert in most work situations. It is wise for homosexuals to follow the same concept. No, it would not be legal, because it would be discrimination against the person due to his religion, even if that discrimination is thinly-veiled by the pretext of being something else. That's basic employment discrimination law. It's also utter bollocks that Christianity must be covert in the workplace. Not a day goes by just about anywhere in the US when one will not see a woman in her workplace wearing a necklace with a cross on it. If you're trying to assert that a Christian is under the same social pressure to keep his religious affiliation secret in the workplace as a homosexual is under social pressure to keep his sexuality secret in the workplace, that's utter rubbish. Once again, you're asserting the "Christians as victims in the US" line. Outside of FoxNews, everyone knows that's completely laughable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airman1270 0 #185 March 9, 2010 ...It is as accurate as characterizing lesbians who want to marry as criminals... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ If a lesbian wants to marry, she has that right. Simply find a guy who wants to marry her and go for it. Don't know what the point would be, but she is free to marry if she wants to. Nobody is trying to make this a crime. Cheers, Jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #186 March 9, 2010 Quote No, it would not be legal, because it would be discrimination against the person due to his religion, even if that discrimination is thinly-veiled by the pretext of being something else. That's basic employment discrimination law. It's also utter bollocks that Christianity must be covert in the workplace. Not a day goes by just about anywhere in the US when one will not see a woman in her workplace wearing a necklace with a cross on it. If you're trying to assert that a Christian is under the same social pressure to keep his religious affiliation secret in the workplace as a homosexual is under social pressure to keep his sexuality secret in the workplace, that's utter rubbish. Once again, you're asserting the "Christians as victims in the US" line. Outside of FoxNews, everyone knows that's completely laughable. Every social service non-profit corporation where I have been employed made it quite clear at HR orientation that I could be fired without cause for any reason at any time. I include the one Christian organization and the one quasi-Christian organization where I worked as well. Wearing a cross necklace, that is probably not such a big deal. However, discussing your faith, church activities, the Bible, etc. during work hours in the work place could get you into trouble. Your can talk "Higher Power" but you best not get more specific than that. There is just something about the name of Jesus Christ. You understand the law but, you lack understanding of the social services work arena. Might makes right and Christians lack power. Mark 13:13 " You will be hated by all because of My name, but the one who endures to the end, he will be savedLook for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RackJR 0 #187 March 9, 2010 "... I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews. I am doing the Lord's work." -adolf hitler, mein kampf "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so." -adolf hitler, to general gerhart engel also according to a poll by the Russian Public Opinion Research Center, 63% of respondents considered themselves Russian Orthodox, 6% of respondents considered themselves Muslim and less than 1% considered themselves either Buddhist, Catholic, Protestant or Jewish. Another 12% said they believe in God, but did not practice any religion, and 16% said they are non-believers. i'd love to hear your problem with soviet russia? our ww2 allies that we then vilified during the cold war but are now our allies again? enlighten me. The People's Republic of China was established in 1949. Its government is officially atheist, which viewed religion as emblematic of feudalism and foreign colonialism. Religious belief or practice was banned because it was regarded as backward and superstitious by some of the communist leaders, from Vladimir Lenin to Mao Zedong, who had been critical of religious institutions. please, enlighten me again. Cuba is traditionally a Catholic country. The Roman Catholic Church estimates that 60 percent of the population is Catholic. But the Catholic Church is subject to government restrictions, and it is not allowed to have its own schools or media. willing to do it again? just curious why you listed these countries. i understand your "mistake" about hitler, it's one that christians have tried with fair success to spread, despite all evidence to the contrary. never let the truth stand in the way of a good story. but i'm actually curious what charges you're leveling against russia, china, and cuba. fine if you need to call me uneducated, but then briefly, educate me. Say what you mean. Do what you say. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #188 March 9, 2010 QuoteQuote No, it would not be legal, because it would be discrimination against the person due to his religion, even if that discrimination is thinly-veiled by the pretext of being something else. That's basic employment discrimination law. It's also utter bollocks that Christianity must be covert in the workplace. Not a day goes by just about anywhere in the US when one will not see a woman in her workplace wearing a necklace with a cross on it. If you're trying to assert that a Christian is under the same social pressure to keep his religious affiliation secret in the workplace as a homosexual is under social pressure to keep his sexuality secret in the workplace, that's utter rubbish. Once again, you're asserting the "Christians as victims in the US" line. Outside of FoxNews, everyone knows that's completely laughable. Every social service non-profit corporation where I have been employed made it quite clear at HR orientation that I could be fired without cause for any reason at any time. I include the one Christian organization and the one quasi-Christian organization where I worked as well. Wearing a cross necklace, that is probably not such a big deal. However, discussing your faith, church activities, the Bible, etc. during work hours in the work place could get you into trouble. Your can talk "Higher Power" but you best not get more specific than that. There is just something about the name of Jesus Christ. You understand the law but, you lack understanding of the social services work arena. FYI, I've done a huge amount of work in the social services arena, as a paralegal before I went back to school, as a lawyer and as a volunteer serving on various community non-profits' boards of directors. What you describe - the discomfort with discussing religion in the workplace - is not targeted at Christians in particular; it's just that Christians are by far the most numerous religious group in the US. The purpose of those policies is not to discriminate; quite the opposite: it is to protect those who don't want to hear other people's opinions about religion in the workplace from having to choose between the lesser of either (a) being forced to listen to it (or to be drawn into a discussion about it), or (b) risk hostility or ostracization from co-workers in retaliation for saying "I come here to work, not to talk about religion." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #189 March 9, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteEver hear about the delightful people who ran Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, China, Cuba, etc. Hint: Atheists. Hint: Wrong. History not your strong point, eh?... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ It sure isn't yours if you're claiming that the nazis were driven by commitment to New Testament teaching. Hitler may have attended church as a kid, but as a young man he turned his back on his faith. Exactly what nazi policies are you saying were consistent with the words of Jesus? Reading's not your strong point either, is it? Actually, I'm struggling to think what is...Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Airman1270 0 #190 March 10, 2010 ...queer adj... ...mentally unbalanced or deranged. 5.Slang: Disparaging and Offensive. a.homosexual. b.effeminate; unmanly. 6.Slang. bad, worthless, or counterfeit. 10.Slang: Disparaging and Offensive. a homosexual, esp. a male homosexual. i only added the emphasis. this is from dictionary.com, if you'd like to look for yourself, which i doubt... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ You already have. Nice work. Cheers, Jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Airman1270 0 #191 March 10, 2010 ...but i'm actually curious what charges you're leveling against russia, china, and cuba. fine if you need to call me uneducated, but then briefly, educate me... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Just like nazi Germany: If you didn't do what they told you to do, you could be arrested and/or shot by police. Or worse. Kinda like today's Democrat-controlled America. Cheers, Jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,380 #192 March 10, 2010 Yes. America is just like Nazi Germany. Congratulations; you've made the dumbest argument on the thread to date. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,254 #193 March 10, 2010 Quote Yes. America is just like Nazi Germany. Congratulations; you've made the dumbest argument on the thread to date. To be fair, he's already said that WASPs are about to be put into BoxcarsDo you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Mike111 0 #194 March 10, 2010 Well at least she didn't win the competition for brains or intellectual statement of the year. Disgusting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RonD1120 58 #195 March 10, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuote No, it would not be legal, because it would be discrimination against the person due to his religion, even if that discrimination is thinly-veiled by the pretext of being something else. That's basic employment discrimination law. It's also utter bollocks that Christianity must be covert in the workplace. Not a day goes by just about anywhere in the US when one will not see a woman in her workplace wearing a necklace with a cross on it. If you're trying to assert that a Christian is under the same social pressure to keep his religious affiliation secret in the workplace as a homosexual is under social pressure to keep his sexuality secret in the workplace, that's utter rubbish. Once again, you're asserting the "Christians as victims in the US" line. Outside of FoxNews, everyone knows that's completely laughable. Every social service non-profit corporation where I have been employed made it quite clear at HR orientation that I could be fired without cause for any reason at any time. I include the one Christian organization and the one quasi-Christian organization where I worked as well. Wearing a cross necklace, that is probably not such a big deal. However, discussing your faith, church activities, the Bible, etc. during work hours in the work place could get you into trouble. Your can talk "Higher Power" but you best not get more specific than that. There is just something about the name of Jesus Christ. You understand the law but, you lack understanding of the social services work arena. FYI, I've done a huge amount of work in the social services arena, as a paralegal before I went back to school, as a lawyer and as a volunteer serving on various community non-profits' boards of directors. What you describe - the discomfort with discussing religion in the workplace - is not targeted at Christians in particular; it's just that Christians are by far the most numerous religious group in the US. The purpose of those policies is not to discriminate; quite the opposite: it is to protect those who don't want to hear other people's opinions about religion in the workplace from having to choose between the lesser of either (a) being forced to listen to it (or to be drawn into a discussion about it), or (b) risk hostility or ostracization from co-workers in retaliation for saying "I come here to work, not to talk about religion." You confirmed what I stated previously. Your experience was in the executive level and the board room. At that level policy is discussed and determined. All seems right, fair, just and legal amongst upper management. My experience was in the trenches as middle management. I had to be very much on guard as did the counselors and technicians. The end result is a general lack of trust between co-workers that reduces the bond needed for best possible treatment for the client and comfort in the workplace. If you want to keep your paycheck, you do not discuss anything but the rules for satisfying the funding agencies. This atmosphere not only effects Christians but all personal rapport. Therefore, cliques develop and co-workers become antagonistic toward other cliques. Nobody trusts upper management concerning their welfare. Morale is lowered and people tend to do the minimum required and above all, watch your back. Like I said, you understand law and policy but lack understanding at the employee level. I do not intend for my comments to come across as a put down. It is merely a position report of my opinion based on my experience.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RonD1120 58 #196 March 10, 2010 And, tagging on at the end, another example of the bias and prejudice in CA. http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=928020 QuoteChristian's speech deemed 'hateful propaganda' A Christian student in the Los Angeles Community College District is carrying his free-speech case to the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals. Jonathan Lopez had an assignment in a public speaking class and was required to give an informative speech on any topic. Alliance Defense Fund (ADF) attorney David Hacker tells OneNewsNow that Lopez chose to speak about his Christian beliefs. "And during that speech, when he mentioned that marriage is between a man and a woman according to his Christian beliefs, the professor called him this horrible name, refused to let him finish the assignment, and told other students in the class, 'If you're offended, you can leave,'" Hacker explains. When no students left, the professor dismissed the class. Hacker adds that Lopez is an "A" student -- "but the problem is he never got a grade on that informative speech, and in fact, the professor wrote on his evaluation form, 'Ask God what your grade is.'" The ADF attorney argues that demonstrates the hostility towards religion on many college campuses. The lower court in Los Angeles issued a preliminary injunction against the school, saying its speech code -- allowing administrators to punish Lopez's "hateful propaganda" -- is unconstitutional. That has been appealed to the Ninth Circuit. The court ruled the school was violating the student's rights. The school is appealing.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 0 #197 March 10, 2010 QuoteYour experience was in the executive level and the board room. No it wasn't; it was in the trenches, dealing directly with the clients and their social service providers. I have essentially been (among many other things) an adjunct social worker for most of my career. This is getting old. You'd really do so much better playing the ball and not the player. You just cannot seem to get that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 0 #198 March 10, 2010 QuoteThe court ruled the school was violating the student's rights. Exactly! A few jerks stupidly do the wrong thing, and mainstream society forces them to do the right thing. As it should be. Hardly sounds like a "war on Christians in America" to me. QuoteThe school is appealing. I'd predict the school will probably lose there, too. As it should be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GeorgiaDon 340 #199 March 10, 2010 I wonder if you were involved in one of the faith-based organizations that got federal funding under the last (and maybe this) administration? Any organization that got those grants had to be careful to use the money only to deliver services, not to preach. Crossing that line would mean that federal tax dollars would be used to promote a religion, which is of course unconstitutional. You may disagree that it should be unconstitutional, but I think the separation of church and state is a master stroke of the Founding Fathers that has guaranteed religious freedom in this country, including the freedom to prefer Bronze Age mythology over science. Anyway them's the rules, if you take the federal grants you can't use the money to preach. Don't like the rules? Don't take the money. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #200 March 10, 2010 QuoteYou are hired for a job that you are qualified for. You show up for the first day of work, and your supervisor sees you wearing a cross. He tells you "you're not welcome here; no doctor-killers are going to work for me." You are then told you no longer have the job. Would you be OK with that? I'd be totally OK with that. Whew! I found out the guy I would have been working for was a total asshole in my way of thinking...and I found out before I had to deal with it on a daily basis! It's a simple matter of: 1. not get into it in the first place, or 2. have to extract yourself short time laterMy reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 Next Page 8 of 13 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Airman1270 0 #190 March 10, 2010 ...queer adj... ...mentally unbalanced or deranged. 5.Slang: Disparaging and Offensive. a.homosexual. b.effeminate; unmanly. 6.Slang. bad, worthless, or counterfeit. 10.Slang: Disparaging and Offensive. a homosexual, esp. a male homosexual. i only added the emphasis. this is from dictionary.com, if you'd like to look for yourself, which i doubt... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ You already have. Nice work. Cheers, Jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airman1270 0 #191 March 10, 2010 ...but i'm actually curious what charges you're leveling against russia, china, and cuba. fine if you need to call me uneducated, but then briefly, educate me... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Just like nazi Germany: If you didn't do what they told you to do, you could be arrested and/or shot by police. Or worse. Kinda like today's Democrat-controlled America. Cheers, Jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,380 #192 March 10, 2010 Yes. America is just like Nazi Germany. Congratulations; you've made the dumbest argument on the thread to date. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #193 March 10, 2010 Quote Yes. America is just like Nazi Germany. Congratulations; you've made the dumbest argument on the thread to date. To be fair, he's already said that WASPs are about to be put into BoxcarsDo you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike111 0 #194 March 10, 2010 Well at least she didn't win the competition for brains or intellectual statement of the year. Disgusting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #195 March 10, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuote No, it would not be legal, because it would be discrimination against the person due to his religion, even if that discrimination is thinly-veiled by the pretext of being something else. That's basic employment discrimination law. It's also utter bollocks that Christianity must be covert in the workplace. Not a day goes by just about anywhere in the US when one will not see a woman in her workplace wearing a necklace with a cross on it. If you're trying to assert that a Christian is under the same social pressure to keep his religious affiliation secret in the workplace as a homosexual is under social pressure to keep his sexuality secret in the workplace, that's utter rubbish. Once again, you're asserting the "Christians as victims in the US" line. Outside of FoxNews, everyone knows that's completely laughable. Every social service non-profit corporation where I have been employed made it quite clear at HR orientation that I could be fired without cause for any reason at any time. I include the one Christian organization and the one quasi-Christian organization where I worked as well. Wearing a cross necklace, that is probably not such a big deal. However, discussing your faith, church activities, the Bible, etc. during work hours in the work place could get you into trouble. Your can talk "Higher Power" but you best not get more specific than that. There is just something about the name of Jesus Christ. You understand the law but, you lack understanding of the social services work arena. FYI, I've done a huge amount of work in the social services arena, as a paralegal before I went back to school, as a lawyer and as a volunteer serving on various community non-profits' boards of directors. What you describe - the discomfort with discussing religion in the workplace - is not targeted at Christians in particular; it's just that Christians are by far the most numerous religious group in the US. The purpose of those policies is not to discriminate; quite the opposite: it is to protect those who don't want to hear other people's opinions about religion in the workplace from having to choose between the lesser of either (a) being forced to listen to it (or to be drawn into a discussion about it), or (b) risk hostility or ostracization from co-workers in retaliation for saying "I come here to work, not to talk about religion." You confirmed what I stated previously. Your experience was in the executive level and the board room. At that level policy is discussed and determined. All seems right, fair, just and legal amongst upper management. My experience was in the trenches as middle management. I had to be very much on guard as did the counselors and technicians. The end result is a general lack of trust between co-workers that reduces the bond needed for best possible treatment for the client and comfort in the workplace. If you want to keep your paycheck, you do not discuss anything but the rules for satisfying the funding agencies. This atmosphere not only effects Christians but all personal rapport. Therefore, cliques develop and co-workers become antagonistic toward other cliques. Nobody trusts upper management concerning their welfare. Morale is lowered and people tend to do the minimum required and above all, watch your back. Like I said, you understand law and policy but lack understanding at the employee level. I do not intend for my comments to come across as a put down. It is merely a position report of my opinion based on my experience.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #196 March 10, 2010 And, tagging on at the end, another example of the bias and prejudice in CA. http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=928020 QuoteChristian's speech deemed 'hateful propaganda' A Christian student in the Los Angeles Community College District is carrying his free-speech case to the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals. Jonathan Lopez had an assignment in a public speaking class and was required to give an informative speech on any topic. Alliance Defense Fund (ADF) attorney David Hacker tells OneNewsNow that Lopez chose to speak about his Christian beliefs. "And during that speech, when he mentioned that marriage is between a man and a woman according to his Christian beliefs, the professor called him this horrible name, refused to let him finish the assignment, and told other students in the class, 'If you're offended, you can leave,'" Hacker explains. When no students left, the professor dismissed the class. Hacker adds that Lopez is an "A" student -- "but the problem is he never got a grade on that informative speech, and in fact, the professor wrote on his evaluation form, 'Ask God what your grade is.'" The ADF attorney argues that demonstrates the hostility towards religion on many college campuses. The lower court in Los Angeles issued a preliminary injunction against the school, saying its speech code -- allowing administrators to punish Lopez's "hateful propaganda" -- is unconstitutional. That has been appealed to the Ninth Circuit. The court ruled the school was violating the student's rights. The school is appealing.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #197 March 10, 2010 QuoteYour experience was in the executive level and the board room. No it wasn't; it was in the trenches, dealing directly with the clients and their social service providers. I have essentially been (among many other things) an adjunct social worker for most of my career. This is getting old. You'd really do so much better playing the ball and not the player. You just cannot seem to get that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #198 March 10, 2010 QuoteThe court ruled the school was violating the student's rights. Exactly! A few jerks stupidly do the wrong thing, and mainstream society forces them to do the right thing. As it should be. Hardly sounds like a "war on Christians in America" to me. QuoteThe school is appealing. I'd predict the school will probably lose there, too. As it should be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 340 #199 March 10, 2010 I wonder if you were involved in one of the faith-based organizations that got federal funding under the last (and maybe this) administration? Any organization that got those grants had to be careful to use the money only to deliver services, not to preach. Crossing that line would mean that federal tax dollars would be used to promote a religion, which is of course unconstitutional. You may disagree that it should be unconstitutional, but I think the separation of church and state is a master stroke of the Founding Fathers that has guaranteed religious freedom in this country, including the freedom to prefer Bronze Age mythology over science. Anyway them's the rules, if you take the federal grants you can't use the money to preach. Don't like the rules? Don't take the money. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #200 March 10, 2010 QuoteYou are hired for a job that you are qualified for. You show up for the first day of work, and your supervisor sees you wearing a cross. He tells you "you're not welcome here; no doctor-killers are going to work for me." You are then told you no longer have the job. Would you be OK with that? I'd be totally OK with that. Whew! I found out the guy I would have been working for was a total asshole in my way of thinking...and I found out before I had to deal with it on a daily basis! It's a simple matter of: 1. not get into it in the first place, or 2. have to extract yourself short time laterMy reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
