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slj678

Drug testing for welfare

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Here is a link to the best argument against drug testing for welfare recipients I can find. Some of the strongest arguments are that welfare recipients are no more likely to take drugs than the rest of the population, drug testing is expensive and inefficient, and possibly unconstitutional.

http://www.aclu.org/drug-law-reform/drug-testing-public-assistance-recipients-condition-eligibility

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welfare recipients are no more likely to take drugs than the rest of the population,



But the rest of the population are not living on our dollars;)
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drug testing is expensive and inefficient,



So is welfare!
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and possibly unconstitutional.



Try again! If you want welfare you will take a drug test, but if you dont want to take a test then no welfare;) ACLU are a bunch of dumb asses!

It that is your best argument then you might want to rethink your opinion, cause your argument is very weak:P
Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

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welfare recipients are no more likely to take drugs than the rest of the population,



But the rest of the population are not living on our dollars;)
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drug testing is expensive and inefficient,



So is welfare!
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and possibly unconstitutional.



Try again! If you want welfare you will take a drug test, but if you dont want to take a test then no welfare;) ACLU are a bunch of dumb asses!

It that is your best argument then you might want to rethink your opinion, cause your argument is very weak:P



It is painfully clear that you did not even bother to read the article.

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You're making some rather LARGE assumptions there, sport.



Sure, not all kids are like that and you may call it what you want. But I did work at a fast food restaurant in highschool and many people quit after about a week, and many people stole from the restaurant. The few people that had degrees that worked there would pay if they added even an extra slice of cheese on something, pal.
"I didn't know they gave out rings at the holocaust"

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Also, I'm guessing that alcohol is by far the most abused drug, and since they only seem to be talking about testing for illegal drugs (in the article you posted), it wouldn't do anything about (what I am guessing is) the biggest drug problem among welfare recipients.



I think if you are on welfare you should have to go to substance abuse treatment. My Dad was a social worker in the 70's and my buddies wife is a social worker now. Both tell me that the major hurdle for these people to get back on their feet is substance abuse.

I fail to see how substance abuse treatment would hurt... Would it cost more? Maybe, but I am willing to pay to help, not pay to enable.

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So it's hard to speculate without knowing more about what percentage of welfare recipients abuse illegal drugs, and exactly how the drugs would be tested for.




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http://www.npc.umich.edu/publications/policy_briefs/brief02/

The problem is most studies are self reported and people are not going to say yes to things they think will get them into trouble. But some studies do exist.

Because substance use is a covert behavior, its true prevalence among the general and welfare population is unknown. Most studies have relied upon self-reports. Deceptive or inaccurate responses are therefore important concerns. Studies also differ in the thresholds used to characterize substance use problems. Some focus on simple use; others use more stringent thresholds such as abuse or dependence. Due to differing definitions and data sources, published prevalence estimates of use vary widely, from 6.6 to 37 percent of those receiving public aid.6

Our estimates using data from the National Household Survey of Drug Abuse (NHSDA) indicate that 9 percent of welfare recipients in 1994 and 1995 were alcohol dependent and that 21 percent had used an illegal drug in the past year (mostly marijuana). (Figure 1) Excluding marijuana, 10 percent of recipients had used some other illegal drug during the past year, with 6 percent having used cocaine or crack.7 Only a small minority of recipients (about 4 percent) satisfied the diagnostic screening criteria for illicit drug dependence



Other studies show about the same % as the general population.... Still my opinion is that drug testing and treatment would not hurt and should be required.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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extrapolation is a great way to examine a point



Why do you (evidently) support burning kittens? That's horrible.



you gotta stay warm somehow, and their little cries are soothing

are you against the poor having heat in their homes during freezing conditions caused by carbon use?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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>Isn't that like a husband telling his wife he made a mistake gave
>a blowjob to one of his congregation?

Uh - OK.

>A mistake is when when you don't think it's coke. I've yet to ever hear
>of a person who snorted a line or smoked a bowl who didn't mean to do it.

And I've never heard a broken swooper say that someone else pulled that riser down. Still, we call what he did a mistake - he misjudged his swoop.

>I say she knew the rules. She broke them. Good bye.

OK.

>No. let her sell what's left of her stash and buy some food.

People who do drugs once at a party generally don't have "stashes" (although I can't speak for everyone.)

>Or go get another job.

Great idea! And a welfare system helps her do that (indeed, encourages her to do so.)

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>I doubt she would need rehab anyway. You really are just making
>this crap up.

I assume you do not know anyone with a drug problem, then.

>Yes, they can. And they can also have their payments deferred when
>in financial trouble.

Agreed! Cool how the government can help you out when you're in financial trouble, eh?

>First of all, not everyone on welfare is on drugs, and not everyone on
>drugs is on welfare.

Of course. Lots of people on welfare are there just because the economy has gotten really bad, and they got laid off. Other people manage to keep their jobs even with a drug habit.

>the welfare just keeps them there becuase they have no need to get
>work. "Hey, more time and money for dope!". Ask any doper.

Dude, not every doper is on welfare.

>I have no problem helping people OUT of a bad situation.

Cool, sounds like we agree then.

>However, our system KEEPS people in their bad situation. People who go
>on welfare unfortunately often become victims of the very people who
>claim to help them. Once the money starts flowing, the job often never
>seems to get hunted for. Funny how that works.

Then we should end financial support to the person if and when that happens (which, right now, we do.)

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>The liberal way of life is get on welfare, live on food stamps, get Rx drugs
>from your welfare psychiatrist, trade or sell Rx drugs for street drugs of
>choice, complain about the unfair, obscene rich right wing conservative
>Republicans, and vote Democratic. Life is good.

Hmm. I'm a liberal and I've never done any of those things. Have you ever met any liberals? That sounds as accurate as Jeanie's descriptions of a "rePUBICan" or Lucky's description of a rich right wing conservative.

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>However, our system KEEPS people in their bad situation. People who go
>on welfare unfortunately often become victims of the very people who
>claim to help them. Once the money starts flowing, the job often never
>seems to get hunted for. Funny how that works.

Then we should end financial support to the person if and when that happens (which, right now, we do.)



If that was true, how do we end up with multi generational welfare families?
Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

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>If that was true, how do we end up with multi generational
>welfare families?

Because PRWORA was only passed in 1996, and there were families at that time that had indeed been on welfare basically forever. Since then more than half of the people on welfare have been 'purged' (no longer eligible to receive welfare.) These were primarily lifetime welfare recipients.

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>A mistake is when when you don't think it's coke. I've yet to ever hear
>of a person who snorted a line or smoked a bowl who didn't mean to do it.

And I've never heard a broken swooper say that someone else pulled that riser down. Still, we call what he did a mistake - he misjudged his swoop.



Very few people mistakenly attempt a swoop.

I have not seen a person who inadertently decides to put some blow up his or her nose. I look at a "mistake" as "negligence." Something that a person forgot to do. Something where a person was distracted.

I compare it to a person making a mistake by giving a blowjob. Mistakes are not the result of a deliberate act. A mistake is not looking back and saying, "I shouldn't have done that."

It took a conscious choice to snort some blow. That's my point. It's not a mistake. At best it is recklessness - something done with full knowledge of the possible or probable consequences.

A mistake - bumping into somebody in line.
Not a mistake - punching somebody in the nose.


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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>I doubt she would need rehab anyway. You really are just making
>this crap up.

I assume you do not know anyone with a drug problem, then.



Am I misunderstanding, or are you suggesting that she would need to go to rehab just because she tried cocaine one time at a party?

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>I doubt she would need rehab anyway. You really are just making
>this crap up.

I assume you do not know anyone with a drug problem, then.



Am I misunderstanding, or are you suggesting that she would need to go to rehab just because she tried cocaine one time at a party?



If she gets caught with a dirty drug test, the only way to keep your job is often an assesment, and if they say "go to rehab" then that's what you do.

She may or may not "need" to go to rehab, but it may be the only way to keep the job.

Someone who "tries one line at a party" probably isn't going to have a real drug problem.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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>The liberal way of life is get on welfare, live on food stamps, get Rx drugs
>from your welfare psychiatrist, trade or sell Rx drugs for street drugs of
>choice, complain about the unfair, obscene rich right wing conservative
>Republicans, and vote Democratic. Life is good.

Hmm. I'm a liberal and I've never done any of those things. Have you ever met any liberals?



No I have not associated with liberals much since 16 Mar 81. From 25 Apr 65 until that day, I pretty much considered myself a liberal and attempted to live as such. I experienced the failure of the lifestyle first hand.

It seems to me that educated, productive, middle class and higher liberals believe that the system must care for the those lower on the socio-economic scale.

People like me have worked in that system and have experienced that level of failure as well. It keeps people working without joy providing services to people who lack true desire and motivation. The emphasis is maintaining the bureaucratic process.

Paperwork has Priority over People i.e., the 3 P Principle to support the law that a bureaucracy will tend to sustain itself. Funding is the goal, not service.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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the country would spend MORE money running a drug testing program that it would save in welfare benefits.

a certain percentage of the population are drug users, on or off welfare.

a certain percentage of the population drink and drive - on or off welfare.

a certain percentage of the population are homosexual - on or off welfare.

a certain percentage of the population go to church every Sunday - on or off welfare.

etc

get it yet?

Stop asking for perfection from those that are less than perfect to begin with.

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I started thinking "who are the welfare recipients?"

Almost one in four American adults has very low basic
skills
. This means that they are generally unable to follow
simple written directions for performing a single mathematical
operation using numbers easily located in the text.
Californians have slightly lower average scores than adults in
the rest of the country, and the distribution of basic skills is
more extreme in California, with larger percentages of people
falling into the very lowest and very highest skill levels.

As might be expected, the basic skills of welfare recipients
are lower
than those of the general adult population,
and the skills of people heavily dependent on welfare (welfare
recipients who did not work in the year preceding the
survey) are even lower. Welfare recipients in California tend
to have substantially lower basic skills than welfare recipients
in the rest of the nation, and the basic skills gap between
welfare recipients and workers is greater in California than in
the nation. These circumstances suggest that California will
have a more difficult task than most states in moving people
from welfare to full-time work. Indeed, the Golden State
Research Brief Public Policy Institute of
California APRIL 1999 ISSUE #19
has not had as much success as other states—between January
1993 and September 1997, 46 states realized a greater percentage decline in their welfare rolls.

http://www.ppic.org/content/pubs/rb/RB_499HJRB.pdf

Wow...we have goat fuck stupid, goat fuck stupider, and golden state goat fuck stupidest? And yes I see the date. Prolly means it's worse now [:/]
Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

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>The liberal way of life is get on welfare, live on food stamps, get Rx drugs
>from your welfare psychiatrist, trade or sell Rx drugs for street drugs of
>choice, complain about the unfair, obscene rich right wing conservative
>Republicans, and vote Democratic. Life is good.

Hmm. I'm a liberal and I've never done any of those things. Have you ever met any liberals?



No I have not associated with liberals much since 16 Mar 81. From 25 Apr 65 until that day, I pretty much considered myself a liberal and attempted to live as such. I experienced the failure of the lifestyle first hand.



Sounds to me like it was your personal failure, and you have simply convinced yourself that the blame lies elsewhere.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Wow...we have goat fuck stupid, goat fuck stupider, and golden state goat fuck stupidest? And yes I see the date. Prolly means it's worse now



Just because they have insufficient skills to hold a job that will cover basic needs doesn't mean they need welfare. Let them eat cake.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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it is sad though that PLENTY of people have to pass drug tests so they can work to pay taxes for those on welfare........



I do not disagree with that, and while some drug testing is worthwhile, lots is not. pilots, doctors, tandem instructors, all worthwhile. drug testing welfare recipients does nothing but make taxpayers 'feel better' about where their money is going.

there is a segment of society that still think that most welfare recipients are all lazy fat black people. most people on welfare are children. most women on welfare are white. are you going to drug test the children?

the fact is that society will ALWAYS have people who cannot or do not have the means to take care of themselves IN THE SAME WAY as you and I.

So do you abandon them? Or do you accept that fact that there will always we people who cannot or do not have the means to take care of themselves he same way as you and I.

And then help them.

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Sounds to me like it was your personal failure, and you have simply convinced yourself that the blame lies elsewhere.



No, I accept personal responsibility for my failures as the result of making bad lifestyle choices. Bottom line for me is the famous Regan quote, "Government is not the answer to the problem. It is the problem."
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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the fact is that society will ALWAYS have people who cannot or do not have the means to take care of themselves IN THE SAME WAY as you and I.

So do you abandon them? Or do you accept that fact that there will always we people who cannot or do not have the means to take care of themselves the same way as you and I.

And then help them.



People should help people. Through donating items, money, time, etc.

Forced donations by taxpayers through gov't programs OTOH is what I have a problem with.
Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

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Forced donations by taxpayers through gov't programs OTOH is what I have a problem with.



having said that, then I guess you will forfeit your social security when you turn 65? And panhandle on the streets for those 'donations' that you speak of?

If government is not there to help its own people, then what is it's purpose perhaps?
"The general welfare of the people" I think it said.....

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