Skyrad 0 #1 December 29, 2009 'Gordon Brown and other senior British politicians have angrily condemned China for executing a British man said to have had mental problems. Akmal Shaikh, 53, was killed early this morning by lethal injection after being convicted of drug smuggling. Despite frantic appeals by the Foreign Office for clemency, Shaikh was executed at 10.30am local time (2.30am British time) in Urumqi. Campaigners believe he is the first European in 58 years put to death in China. Shaikh, a father of three from Kentish Town, north London, was found with 4kg of heroin in his suitcase in September 2007. His supporters say he had suffered a breakdown, was delusional and was tricked into carrying the drugs.' http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/29/akmal-shaikh-execution-china-brown?CMP=AFCYAH So was China right in executing this man?When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #2 December 29, 2009 I don't have enough details to assess right vs wrong. So there is only legal vs not legal..... One thing I do know is that those countries VERY tough on drugs don't seem to have the same issues as the ones light on drugs do. Singapore is a good example. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #3 December 29, 2009 No country is ever right executing anyone. Given that and accepting that China has a well established death penalty the question of this man's mental health is up next. His family claims he was ill, but I have heard no other evidence that he was. Reacting poorly to a personal or financial crisis does not constitute a lack of criminal responsibility in most judicial systems. Far too often people from western countries demand their government prevent their citizens from being subject to local justice, but the governments only real obligation is in ensuring that they receive equal justice to the locals. I believe this fellow got that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #4 December 29, 2009 Quote One thing I do know is that those countries VERY tough on drugs don't seem to have the same issues as the ones light on drugs do. Singapore is a good example. ,...and Mussolini made the trains run on time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 143 #5 December 29, 2009 Quote'Gordon Brown and other senior British politicians have angrily condemned China for executing a British man said to have had mental problems. Akmal Shaikh, 53, was killed early this morning by lethal injection after being convicted of drug smuggling. Despite frantic appeals by the Foreign Office for clemency, Shaikh was executed at 10.30am local time (2.30am British time) in Urumqi. Campaigners believe he is the first European in 58 years put to death in China. Shaikh, a father of three from Kentish Town, north London, was found with 4kg of heroin in his suitcase in September 2007. His supporters say he had suffered a breakdown, was delusional and was tricked into carrying the drugs.' http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/29/akmal-shaikh-execution-china-brown?CMP=AFCYAH So was China right in executing this man? No China was wrong. I have no problem with the death penalty for pre-meditated murder, but definately not for drugs. According to the BBC article I read there was only a 30 minute trial with no appeals process to follow - this makes it doubly wrong in my opinion. I am not sure that the mental illness claim is correct as apparantly there is no record of any problems in the UK and I find it hard to believe that nothing would be known.Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #6 December 29, 2009 Just as importantly, was China wrong? I cannot necessarily say they are. They have set up these rules and they are well known. Check out Chairman Mao - mass extermination of junkies. Group them up and shoot them in the head. It worked. It was the government policy. So now the guy's had a couple of years - not the summary executions. It's the way China handles it. I don't like it. It is what it is, however. And it's known. China was a mess due to opium 100 years ago. I'm not saying it's right, from my thinking. But I am saying that any foreigner who says it's wrong requires a degree of nationalistic arrogance. Different cultures have different values. I don't like all of them. I don't call them wrong, either. This guy's affirmative act broke the rules - punishable by death. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #7 December 29, 2009 QuoteQuote One thing I do know is that those countries VERY tough on drugs don't seem to have the same issues as the ones light on drugs do. Singapore is a good example. ,...and Mussolini made the trains run on time. so put him in charge of trains, just not drugs and law enforcement. And certainly not in charge of a military. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #8 December 29, 2009 QuoteBut I am saying that any foreigner who says it's wrong requires a degree of nationalistic arrogance. Different cultures have different values. I don't like all of them. I don't call them wrong, either. This guy's affirmative act broke the rules - punishable by death. + but that first sentence should get all the pro-lifers up in arms - or whatever you call 'em - er, whatever they call them.... ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captain1976 0 #9 December 30, 2009 What do you expect from a criminal country like China? This dysfunctional excuse of a civilized society only exists though their never-ending theft of technology from the US and other countries. Thanks to sex selection, these idiots in their policies has caused 32 million more males than females. Their constant attempts to hack into US Pentagon computers should be considered an act of war. I would cut them off from the rest of civilized society until they earn their place. Fuck ChinaYou live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #10 December 30, 2009 Sadly we've become WAAAAYYYYY too soft to ever have the balls to do the right thing about China. I couldn't agree with you more. This is why I avoid Walmart AND Chinese food at the grocery store. I do all I can to never give them a dime. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akarunway 1 #11 December 30, 2009 Quote What do you expect from a criminal country like China? This dysfunctional excuse of a civilized society only exists though their never-ending theft of technology from the US and other countries. Thanks to sex selection, these idiots in their policies has caused 32 million more males than females. Their constant attempts to hack into US Pentagon computers should be considered an act of war. I would cut them off from the rest of civilized society until they earn their place. Fuck China We (the USA) need to pay them off first. I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #12 December 30, 2009 Quote No China was wrong. I have no problem with the death penalty for pre-meditated murder, but definately not for drugs. You do take an account that we're not talking of a few joints here, we're talking about NINE POUNDS of heroine? Quote According to the BBC article I read there was only a 30 minute trial with no appeals process to follow - this makes it doubly wrong in my opinion. Why? The case seems to be simple enough, and explaining to the judge (no jury) that you should be forgiven because you were a minority and a victim of child abuse wouldn't likely work in China. So 30 minutes sound like plenty of time. Well, this is the difference between a ban enforced and a "ban" which is not enforced.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #13 December 30, 2009 QuoteThis dysfunctional excuse of a civilized society only exists though their never-ending theft of technology from the US and other countries. Same could be said of Singapore, Hong Kong, South Korea, and to a lesser degree Japan among others (all somewhat business models for China). Have foreign specialists show you how to do it, learn to do it cheaper, then eventually develop your own minds to create tomorrow's technologies. Quite standard, really. QuoteThanks to sex selection, these idiots in their policies has caused 32 million more males than females. Somewhat true, but overly simplistic. The roots can be found in "confuciusism". In addition, having a son was a retirement plan of sort. Once married, the bride would move with her in laws and help tending the fields, cattle, house, etc... When the one child policy got into effect, having a lone daughter meant by the age of 20 she'd be gone forever, and the parents would find themselves living the rest of their lives alone without anyone to take care of them. Thus a male child became preferred. Can't really blame them... QuoteTheir constant attempts to hack into US Pentagon computers should be considered an act of war. Could be. Much like crashing spy planes on foreign lands could be as well. Keeps it interesting. QuoteFuck China Yeah, nuke 'em back to the stone age, yellow fuckers! "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #14 December 30, 2009 Really, is anyone surprised? China massacred thousands of their own citizens in their own capitol. They have a death penalty which is used to the point that is makes Texas look like a commune of hippies. Was China right? Well they certainly think they were. I personally think that smuggling 8lbs of heroin is not worth the death penalty. In light of that, I think spending time in a Chinese prison is potentially an equal or worse fate. To those that think China should be punished I submit the following: This dragon is bite a lot more people, and if civil rights activists want to see real progress against China, then they need to give up virtually every other priority because China has all the cards, they hold the debt, own a ton of gold, and do not care about how they get the resources needed to feed a billion-plus people.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #15 December 30, 2009 Quote Quote What do you expect from a criminal country like China? This dysfunctional excuse of a civilized society only exists though their never-ending theft of technology from the US and other countries. Thanks to sex selection, these idiots in their policies has caused 32 million more males than females. Their constant attempts to hack into US Pentagon computers should be considered an act of war. I would cut them off from the rest of civilized society until they earn their place. Fuck China We (the USA) need to pay them off first. LOL You do understand that they have somewhere in the neighborhood of about 10 million extra men to women there, right? Piss China off to bad and you will hear a speach like this: - You can have a wife and kids if you want, just let us drop you off over there and you invade America - yep - we'll give you some of the land that we take and give you some seed money . . . oh - here, here is a gun - go get 'em boys! 10 Million -I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #16 December 30, 2009 QuoteSadly we've become WAAAAYYYYY too soft to ever have the balls to do the right thing about China. I couldn't agree with you more. This is why I avoid Walmart AND Chinese food at the grocery store. I do all I can to never give them a dime. They pretty much own the USA now, no need for nukes when they can destroy the US economy at will if they wish.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nick 0 #17 December 30, 2009 ***This dysfunctional excuse of a civilized society only exists though their never-ending theft of technology from the US and other countries.*** What about all the technology that the US has stolen from other countries? And don't forget, China isn't the only country to execute those with a mental illness http://www.deathpenalty.org/article.php?id=53. Nick Gravity- It's not just a good idea, it's the LAW! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 143 #18 December 30, 2009 QuoteQuote No China was wrong. I have no problem with the death penalty for pre-meditated murder, but definately not for drugs. You do take an account that we're not talking of a few joints here, we're talking about NINE POUNDS of heroine? Firstly yes I understand the quantity involved. Secondly you assume that I feel that drug peddling is "morally" wrong. I have met people who have used "hard" drugs and yet they were (and still are) very successful in life and they are in all walks of life (lawyers, doctors and engineers). As I see it making drugs illegal solves nothing as you appear to get two personality types - those who get addicted to substances and those who don't. We have neighbors whose lives have been destroyed by substance abuse - the brother through heroin, and the sister through Vodka. Why is the heroin illegal and the Vodka not? To answer your second point (and taking into account Lawrocket's opinion) whether the death penalty is right or wrong ANY persons life is worth more than 30 minutes consideration - it is simply not enough time to provide a considered and deliberated approach.Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #19 December 30, 2009 QuoteQuoteSadly we've become WAAAAYYYYY too soft to ever have the balls to do the right thing about China. I couldn't agree with you more. This is why I avoid Walmart AND Chinese food at the grocery store. I do all I can to never give them a dime. They pretty much own the USA now, no need for nukes when they can destroy the US economy at will if they wish. Let's try nipping this in the bud, since it is repeated a lot here, but quite false. China holds 800B in US national debt. That's less than 7%, and about the same amount as the stimulus bill this year. It's only slightly more than Japan, who holds 750B. China is also highly dependent on the US (though not nearly so much as it was a decade ago), so punishing the US is self inflicting pain as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #20 December 30, 2009 Quote .... China is also highly dependent on the US (though not nearly so much as it was a decade ago), so punishing the US is self inflicting pain as well. That made me come back from holidays for a short break: Just have a look here - especially at the two last text passages - http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/17121/ and then dream on. Back into my desert hole ..... dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #21 December 30, 2009 Quote Firstly yes I understand the quantity involved. Secondly you assume that I feel that drug peddling is "morally" wrong. It depends on morals. I just want to point out that he's not an innocent tourist who forgot a couple of joints he bought for personal consumption. Nine pounds of heroine is serious trafficking, and everyone going to China is, or should be aware what the penalty for drug trafficking is. Quote I have met people who have used "hard" drugs and yet they were (and still are) very successful in life and they are in all walks of life (lawyers, doctors and engineers). That's because you do not spend a lot of time in a social circle where those who used hard drugs (including ex-lawyers, ex-doctors and ex-engineers) fall into. Same as you only see healthy skydivers in the plane going up. Quote As I see it making drugs illegal solves nothing as you appear to get two personality types - those who get addicted to substances and those who don't. Just making drugs illegal but not enforcing it indeed solves nothing. Making them illegal AND enforcing it decreases the levels of drug usage dramatically. Quote We have neighbors whose lives have been destroyed by substance abuse - the brother through heroin, and the sister through Vodka. Why is the heroin illegal and the Vodka not? For example because historically people may have higher tolerance for alcohol than drugs. I.e. if you have a sample of ~1000 people who drink vodka and another sample of those who inject heroine, there will be more abusers in the second group. Quote To answer your second point (and taking into account Lawrocket's opinion) whether the death penalty is right or wrong ANY persons life is worth more than 30 minutes consideration - it is simply not enough time to provide a considered and deliberated approach. So how long is enough then if 30 minutes is too little? 8 hours? One year?* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #22 December 30, 2009 Quote Quote .... China is also highly dependent on the US (though not nearly so much as it was a decade ago), so punishing the US is self inflicting pain as well. That made me come back from holidays for a short break: Just have a look here - especially at the two last text passages - http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/17121/ and then dream on. Back into my desert hole ..... Didn't see a relevant point there, Christel. Just a conclusion that both China and US are capitalist whores. Manufacturing was leaving the US long before 2000, and the trade deficit has always been significant. The point remains - China can't shut off its major buyer. I think it would be an interesting (and terrifying if you're a resident of Earth) game of chicken if the US threatened to default on that debt to the Chinese. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #23 December 30, 2009 QuoteI think it would be an interesting (and terrifying if you're a resident of Earth) game of chicken if the US threatened to default on that debt to the Chinese. How would it be possible for the US to default on only the Chinese government, without defaulting on all of the other holders of Treasury bonds (e.g., Social Security Trust Fund)?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #24 December 30, 2009 QuoteQuoteI think it would be an interesting (and terrifying if you're a resident of Earth) game of chicken if the US threatened to default on that debt to the Chinese. How would it be possible for the US to default on only the Chinese government, without defaulting on all of the other holders of Treasury bonds (e.g., Social Security Trust Fund)? By refusing to pay those particular ones? Cancelling them? Any imaginable scenario would be more a threat to do this rather then actually doing so. Much like nuclear deterrence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #25 December 31, 2009 QuoteBy refusing to pay those particular ones? Cancelling them? And if they have been sold or traded to Americans or allies before maturity?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
