Bolas 5 #1 December 17, 2009 From http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3754539#3754539 QuoteThe physical manifestation of God is not necessary and would actually be a detriment. Discuss. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skinnay 0 #2 December 17, 2009 You're right this is a very good argument for religion. I thought all these jesus people were full of crap before, but now this is convincing and really explains a lot. Where do i sign up? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #3 December 17, 2009 Explain.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #4 December 17, 2009 Quote Explain. I was just the one that found the comment intriguing and worth further discussion simply due to its uniqueness. Hopefully the OP will elaborate. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #5 December 17, 2009 Quote From http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3754539#3754539 Quote The physical manifestation of God is not necessary and would actually be a detriment. Discuss. I guess it all depends on how much opiate your mass needs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #6 December 17, 2009 Quote Quote From http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3754539#3754539 Quote The physical manifestation of God is not necessary and would actually be a detriment. Discuss. I guess it all depends on how much opiate your mass needs. where can i sign up for THAT!? “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #7 December 17, 2009 Quote From http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3754539#3754539 Quote The physical manifestation of God is not necessary and would actually be a detriment. Discuss. Quote December 17th. REDEMPTION CREATES THE NEED IT SATISFIES "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him.” 1 Corinthians ii. 14. The Gospel of God creates a sense of need of the Gospel. Paul says—"If our gospel be hid it is hid"—to those who are blackguards? No, "to them that are lost: in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not.” The majority of people have their morality well within their own grasp, they have no sense of need of the Gospel. It is God Who creates the need of which no human being is conscious until God manifests Himself. Jesus said—"Ask, and it shall be given you," but God cannot give until a man asks. It is not that He withholds, but that that is the way He has constituted things on the basis of Redemption. By means of our asking, God gets processes into work whereby He creates the thing that is not in existence until we do ask. The inner reality of Redemption creates the life of God in us, so it creates the things belonging to that life. Nothing can satisfy the need but that which created the need. This is the meaning of Redemption—it creates and it satisfies. "I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto Me.” We preach our own experiences and people are interested, but no sense of need is awakened by it. If once Jesus Christ is lifted up, the Spirit of God will create a conscious need of Him. Behind the preaching of the Gospel is the creative Redemption of God at work in the souls of men. "The words that I speak unto you, they are spirit and they are life." The above quote is from My Utmost for His Highest by Oswald Chambers. It won't satisfy the argument of the non-believers but is does help explain how the believers of Jesus Christ of Nazareth live in a spiritual relationship with our Creator. For example, this morning I was in prayerful devotion. When finished I accessed the Internet. In the SC I see this topic and the Holy Spirit says to me, "I gave you the reply this morning while you were doing your devotions." The spiritual relationship with God through Jesus guided by the Holy Spirit keeps you ahead of the game with the confidence of being in God's will for your life.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #8 December 17, 2009 what you suffer is schizophrenia; it can be treated! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #9 December 17, 2009 Quote what you suffer is schizophrenia; it can be treated! Don't attempt erudition without adequate knowledge. Learn the definition of your terms, otherwise you are just yapping. Got your leash?Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #10 December 17, 2009 Quote Quote what you suffer is schizophrenia; it can be treated! Don't attempt erudition without adequate knowledge. Learn the definition of your terms, otherwise you are just yapping. Got your leash? are you resorting to calling me a dog again? wow, i'm impressed with your rethoric skills, jesusfreak!“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 234 #11 December 17, 2009 I believe, therefore I am. or I believe, therefore it is. Both views are crap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingOsh 0 #12 December 17, 2009 Quote Quote Quote what you suffer is schizophrenia; it can be treated! Don't attempt erudition without adequate knowledge. Learn the definition of your terms, otherwise you are just yapping. Got your leash? jesusfreak! Interesting choice of words for an insult considering he's a man of faith. Kinda like calling a skydiver a jumpfreak... -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maadmax 0 #13 December 17, 2009 Explain. I was just the one that found the comment intriguing and worth further discussion simply due to its uniqueness. Hopefully the OP will elaborate. As I have come to see it, we are here with certain undeniable needs. I think these are genetic calling cards God has implanted within our genome. They continually remind us that He is there and waiting for our freewill choice to let Him into our minds. External phenomena would handicap the faith process necessary to allow God use of His power and presence to fulfill those needs. Just as the absence of faith in a human relationship would prohibit the transfer of love from one partner to the other. Of course we can resort to quick fixes that never satisfy, which instead only leave us more unsettled. Among the many things God has to offer, one is a peace that literally passes all understanding, that quiets our soul/mind and protects us from psychological distress. ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #14 December 17, 2009 Quote Quote Quote what you suffer is schizophrenia; it can be treated! Don't attempt erudition without adequate knowledge. Learn the definition of your terms, otherwise you are just yapping. Got your leash? are you resorting to calling me a dog again? wow, i'm impressed with your rethoric skills, jesusfreak! Just the kind of intelligent debate I was looking for... Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #15 December 17, 2009 QuoteREDEMPTION CREATES THE NEED IT SATISFIES Much like products in infomercials. QuoteAs I have come to see it, we are here with certain undeniable needs- "As I have come to see it" and "undeniable" are incompatible. Oil and water. It is completely possible for me or anyone else to deny that which you've come to see. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,673 #16 December 17, 2009 Both of you cut it out. Your one warning. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #17 December 17, 2009 I find this fascinating on a couple of levels: You don't need the same level of proof others might require to believe/know. Your decision. However you also think that true proof is not only unneccessary but would be a detriment. If one truly wanted to help save mankind from their evil ways, why would anyone not want direct proof if it encouraged more to follow in his path? How could that be a bad thing? Any religious person has moments of doubt/weakness. Those also would be eliminated. Finally, this would end religious wars and intolerance of other religions as either the proof would show which one was "right" or hopefully show there are multiple acceptable paths.Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,793 #18 December 17, 2009 Quote From http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3754539#3754539 Quote The physical manifestation of God is not necessary and would actually be a detriment. Discuss. It's perhaps the lamest of the lame arguments in support of religion that I've heard.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,673 #19 December 17, 2009 >If one truly wanted to help save mankind from their evil ways, why would >anyone not want direct proof if it encouraged more to follow in his path? How >could that be a bad thing? I can think of a lot of reasons. A truly omnipotent, omniscient God that shows up and gets all Old Testament (i.e. blowing up cities, destroying the earth on occasion, asking people to sacrifice their children, leave their families etc) is a pretty scary thing to imagine. Plus which, it is pretty much a guarantee that he will not be like people imagine him to be, since so many people see him so many different ways. Right now that doesn't matter - but if he reappears and tells you "yep, the Muslims were right about praying five times a day, the Christians were right about Jesus, and the Hindus were right about how many arms I have" it's going to bake a lot of people's noodles. >Finally, this would end religious wars and intolerance of other religions . . . ??? I think it would result in the mother of all religious wars. Either: 1) He would appear on Earth, present himself as mortal and tell people "I am the way" and only 12 people would listen to him (it's happened before.) He'd eventually be executed as a terrorist, and we'd have yet another new religion. 2) He would appear on Earth, show his might in a very visible way, and then stand back to see what happened. Humans being what they are, this would result in the biggest crusade the world had ever seen, each army claiming they were the Chosen Ones ready to carry out God's will. Millions would die. 3) He would appear on Earth, show his might in a very visible way, choose a sect and support them a little. Maybe an occasional flood or bolt of lightning on an evildoer. Humans being what they are, this would result in the biggest crusade the world had ever seen, and all nonbelievers would be killed. 3) He would appear on Earth, show his might in a very visible way, choose a sect, mold them to what he wanted them to be, and support them 100%. This would basically put everyone under command of God. And given that he won't be like anyone imagines him to be, there would be a lot of very unhappy people. >Any religious person has moments of doubt/weakness. Those also would be eliminated. I think many people's moments of doubt and pain are what turns them from a child into an adult. Eliminate that and you eliminate a lot of what makes us human. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #20 December 17, 2009 Perhaps, however it would not be a case of believers/non believers as we would all know for certain. This is an age of technology where video and audio proof could substantiate anyone's claims. I'll admit that some of the more extremists groups might take the news badly if they were "wrong" and there may be mass suicides/homicides for a bit, but the number of casulties would be far less then the continuing number in the name of religion and they would be at an end.Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,793 #21 December 17, 2009 QuoteThis is an age of technology where video and audio proof could substantiate anyone's claims. Indeed! I saw video proof of Luke Skywalker destroying the Death Star.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skinnay 0 #22 December 17, 2009 Quote For example, this morning I was in prayerful devotion. When finished I accessed the Internet. In the SC I see this topic and the Holy Spirit says to me, "I gave you the reply this morning while you were doing your devotions." Couldn't possibly be wishful thinking.. it has to be an act of god Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grimmie 179 #23 December 17, 2009 I think this will be a good topic to discuss in Belize with rum in hand. Lots of rum... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #24 December 17, 2009 QuoteQuoteThis is an age of technology where video and audio proof could substantiate anyone's claims. Indeed! I saw video proof of Luke Skywalker destroying the Death Star. OK. What would a god have to do to prove to you that they in fact exist? What physical/scientific proof would you need?Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #25 December 17, 2009 Quote I think this will be a good topic to discuss in Belize with rum in hand. Lots of rum... Only after we've inadvertently scared all the women away. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
