should switzerland ban the building of minarets!?

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

Read the first Paragraph of this link!!!!

http://www.orexca.com/uzbekistan_minarets.shtml

Done.

What's your point?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[MrDree 0]

So wanting a minaret is a proof they don't want to adapt? They speak swiss german, wear a "I LOVE SWITZERLAND" t-shirt, eat fondue and are member of a yodelling group, but they are fundamentalists who don't want to adapt because they want a minaret? (I know you're going to reply that not every muslim eats fondue and speaks swiss german, but then I'm going to reply that not every muslim is a charia fanatic who wants to behead everyone).

What about chinese restaurants? Why are they allowed to have some chinese signs on their facade? Does it fit in a traditional swiss landscape? It doesn't seem to bother anyone, so why should the minarets?

"One day, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching."

Dudeist Skydiver #101

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

excellent study

but since you're swisser than i am, i'm sure you'll have no problems making sense out of it..

Very funny.

Any chance at all that you might be able to play the ball here? Any chance at all that you might be able to talk about the issue instead of me and my nationality?

Once again, you asked for non-Swiss people to discuss the initiative. You can't now turn around and get pissed off that non-Swiss people are discussing the initiative!

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[ncjumpjunkie 0]

Quote

I'll try to explain this thing this way..... In the USA, if you live in the county, not in the "City Limits" You are allowed to have cows and barn yard animals. OKAY? Now say that a Hindu worshiper lived in the house. OKAY? Then the "City" voted to "RE ZONE" the area. Then all the cows would have to go because now it's the "City Limits".... Would the Hindu Worshiper's Civil Rights be violated because of this, the cows are "Religious Simbols????? This is why people exercise their right to live where they choose..... If they don't like the rules where they live they always can exercise their right to move to an area that fits them best, instead of trying to change the area to fit them.

SAME THING HERE IN SWITZERLAND,,,, They didn't ban or forbid Muslims from worship or demand that the "OTHER MINARETS" be torn down. They just "REZONED" and denied any further expansion.

*BUMP*

SONIC BEEF #1 BASE 708, NC BASE 3
SLI,IADI,AFFI.TIE.FAA Rigger, Single & Multi Commercial Pilot,CFI, CFII, MEI

[virgin-burner 1]

Quote

So wanting a minaret is a proof they don't want to adapt? They speak swiss german, wear a "I LOVE SWITZERLAND" t-shirt, eat fondue and are member of a yodelling group, but they are fundamentalists who don't want to adapt because they want a minaret? (I know you're going to reply that not every muslim eats fondue and speaks swiss german, but then I'm going to reply that not every muslim is a charia fanatic who wants to behead everyone).

What about chinese restaurants? Why are they allowed to have some chinese signs on their facade? Does it fit in a traditional swiss landscape? It doesn't seem to bother anyone, so why should the minarets?

WHY DO YOU NEED A MINARET TO FUCKING PRAY TO YOUR GOD!?

read the fucking study i posted further up. the minaret is a symbol of power, prayer calls, the scharia are logic steps up the ladder; check the situation in germany, france, italy..

BTW, a region in austria has banned minarets alltogether; of course that went unnoticed..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[MrDree 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

wow, now i feel like a dumb foreigner in my own country

Now you know how a lot of muslims who are Swiss citizen (some of them are even of Swiss descent) feel. They are told to adapt to swiss rules or go back home. But they are home, it's their country too!

Well what about the "Swiss Citizens" that are told that they have to take all those Minarets???? How do you think they feel. And I don't recall anybody telling any Muslims to "GO Home" as you say.

- "ALL those minarets"! They are currently only 4 minarets in Switzerland, one of them was built more than 40 years ago. They weren't a problem until a few month ago.

- Well, to those who are offended by the sight of a minaret, I say: "Hey buddy, that's Switzerland, a country waaaaaay better than Saudi Arabia, where freedom of religion applies. You should be proud of that. Why do you want to be as intolerant as the countries you despise for being intolerant?"

- In all the debates we had in Switzerland, I heard that "adapt or go home" argument dozen of times.

"One day, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching."

Dudeist Skydiver #101

[virgin-burner 1]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

wow, now i feel like a dumb foreigner in my own country

Now you know how a lot of muslims who are Swiss citizen (some of them are even of Swiss descent) feel. They are told to adapt to swiss rules or go back home. But they are home, it's their country too!

Well what about the "Swiss Citizens" that are told that they have to take all those Minarets???? How do you think they feel. And I don't recall anybody telling any Muslims to "GO Home" as you say.

- "ALL those minarets"! They are currently only 4 minarets in Switzerland, one of them was built more than 40 years ago. They weren't a problem until a few month ago.

- Well, to those who are offended by the sight of a minaret, I say: "Hey buddy, that's Switzerland, a country waaaaaay better than Saudi Arabia, where freedom of religion applies. You should be proud of that. Why do you want to be as intolerant as the countries you despise for being intolerant?"

- In all the debates we had in Switzerland, I heard that "adapt or go home" argument dozen of times.

well, in fact, if you dont adapt, why do you WANT to stay here? social security? your job? the landscape? the people? well, if it's any of those, why dont you try to respect the country and its people? if you dont, well..

there's also the fear of those to bring their ignorance here; they dont want to adapt, i bet they dont want to lay off their ignorance; in that case, true, you better go home!

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

WHY DO YOU NEED A MINARET TO FUCKING PRAY TO YOUR GOD!?

Who said they did?

Quote

read the fucking study i posted further up. the minaret is a symbol of power, prayer calls, the scharia are logic steps up the ladder; check the situation in germany, france, italy..

Ok, so when I talked about the Minaret as a symbol upthread you said I was twisting your words, it actually turns out that you think the Minaret is... a symbol.

Right.

Quote

BTW, a region in austria has banned minarets alltogether; of course that went unnoticed..

No-one from Austria started a thread about it.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[virgin-burner 1]

look mate, if ignorance is bliss, you're truely blessed..

you can keep on saying the swiss are racist, oppose muslims or whatever, i couldnt care less; you dont seem to understand the underlying issues, i'm fine with that too!

but what i really dont like is your arrogance, pretending to know more about the whole topic than a swiss citizen that actually lives in switzerland. and instead of listening or reading the articles i've posted, you completely ignore it and keep beating your dead horse that already died pages ago.. THEN you try to blame me for not being able to hold a discussion.. nope, i really dont like that!

but hey, this is SC, what else could i have expected..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

you can keep on saying the swiss are racist, oppose muslims or whatever,

How can I keep doing something that I've never done?

Quote

you dont seem to understand the underlying issues, i'm fine with that too!

What is it that I don't understand? You keep saying that I'm wrong, but you've never said exactly what it is that I'm wrong about.

Tell me, specifically, which things I've said about the initiative that are wrong.

Quote

but what i really dont like is your arrogance, pretending to know more about the whole topic than a swiss citizen that actually lives in switzerland.

When have I done that? Like I said to you from page 1 I'm interested in the issue because of the underlying political philosophy aspect. I'm not trying to tell you how your country is run.

Quote

and instead of listening or reading the articles i've posted, you completely ignore it and keep beating your dead horse that already died pages ago..

What have I ignored?

Quote

THEN you try to blame me for not being able to hold a discussion.. nope, i really dont like that!

You demonstrate in this very post that you simply haven't understood what I'm writing. There's absolutely no way that you can read my posts at face value and think that I'm accusing Swiss people of all being racists.

Please, drop the defensiveness and excessive nationalism and actually engage. What was the point of asking the question in the first place if you were going to dismiss any negative answer as an attack on your entire nation?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[virgin-burner 1]

read my first couple posts, i've explained the vote, that i didnt knew what to think, and what the average opinion was..

all of a sudden, i'm being called (or my country) a racist, opposing muslims etc..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

all of a sudden, i'm being called (or my country) a racist,

By maybe one person, who wasn't me.

On the other hand, your first post to me was entirely devoted to calling my country (when you thought I was a Yank) undemocratic with a bought Presidency.

In terms of whos nationality is being attacked here, you are not the victim. Take a deep breath, re-read some posts and you might see that.

Quote

opposing muslims etc..

What did you expect? The SVP said that the initiative that they put forward was to oppose the minarets because they were a symbol of Islam. It is what it is.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[virgin-burner 1]

Quote

Quote

opposing muslims etc..

What did you expect? The SVP said that the initiative that they put forward was to oppose the minarets because they were a symbol of Islam. It is what it is.

one voice

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

Quote

Quote

opposing muslims etc..

What did you expect? The SVP said that the initiative that they put forward was to oppose the minarets because they were a symbol of Islam. It is what it is.

one voice

Brilliant! Does this mean that you can finally see the difference between criticism of one group and one policy from criticism of your entire country? I hope so.

Anyway, yes it is one voice - the voice of the people who put forward the initiative. An initiative, as they freely admit, designed to oppose the minarets because they are a symbol of Islam.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[virgin-burner 1]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

opposing muslims etc..

What did you expect? The SVP said that the initiative that they put forward was to oppose the minarets because they were a symbol of Islam. It is what it is.

one voice

Brilliant! Does this mean that you can finally see the difference between criticism of one group and one policy from criticism of your entire country? I hope so.

Anyway, yes it is one voice - the voice of the people who put forward the initiative. An initiative, as they freely admit, designed to oppose the minarets because they are a symbol of Islam.

yup. so what!? SVP doesnt hold 57% of the totals; that means, left to right, they all put their "yes" in; so we're talking about more than one group, right!? most woman voted "yes"; of course, them bitches should stay home and take care of the fridge being full and that there's food on the table, right!?

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[MrDree 0]

Quote

of course, them bitches should stay home and take care of the fridge being full and that there's food on the table, right!?

That's the catholic, traditional way of life promoted by SVP, right?

"One day, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching."

Dudeist Skydiver #101

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

look up how many churches there are on arabian soil; there might be a couple you find, yet, no church steeples!

islam oppresses people of other faiths, the rights of woman, it might be not too long ago we did that here too, but that's no reason to get back to the stone-age because of some immigrants!

That's just as irrelevant today, as when you (and others) said it (and I rebutted it) up-thread yesterday.

Once again, and try to follow along this time:

Being a decent society means setting a good example for the others, including the bad ones; it does not mean acting bad because the other guys are bad, too (or worse).

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

yup. so what!?

So you shouldn't be shocked to hear people say that it has something to do with opposing muslims.

Quote

most woman voted "yes"; of course, them bitches should stay home and take care of the fridge being full and that there's food on the table, right!?

Quite obviously wrong.

What on earth are you talking about?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[virgin-burner 1]

Quote

Quote

yup. so what!?

So you shouldn't be shocked to hear people say that it has something to do with opposing muslims.

Quote

most woman voted "yes"; of course, them bitches should stay home and take care of the fridge being full and that there's food on the table, right!?

Quite obviously wrong.

What on earth are you talking about?

jesus christ, are you challenged in some way!? how much support does SVP have countrywide? something like 30% maybe!? where did the other 30% come from? i've told you, not only the right-wingers voted that way, and most woman i talked to about this voted that way..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[virgin-burner 1]

Quote

Quote

of course, them bitches should stay home and take care of the fridge being full and that there's food on the table, right!?

That's the catholic, traditional way of life promoted by SVP, right?

i bet, with blochers daughter managing ems chemie, that statement is ridicilous..

CVP, that's their territory!

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[virgin-burner 1]

Quote

Quote

look up how many churches there are on arabian soil; there might be a couple you find, yet, no church steeples!

islam oppresses people of other faiths, the rights of woman, it might be not too long ago we did that here too, but that's no reason to get back to the stone-age because of some immigrants!

That's just as irrelevant today, as when you (and others) said it (and I rebutted it) up-thread yesterday.

Once again, and try to follow along this time:

Being a decent society means setting a good example for the others, including the bad ones; it does not mean acting bad because the other guys are bad, too (or worse).

oh, we do already, we let them practice their religion, let them have their mosques, they're even free to convert to say catholicism!

not so much of that in islamic countries, found a link today with all churches in those countries, far fewer than the 200 mosques we have in switzerland ALONE..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

how much support does SVP have countrywide? something like 30% maybe!? where did the other 30% come from? i've told you, not only the right-wingers voted that way, and most woman i talked to about this voted that way..

I haven't said a thing about where the vote came from. If you say that's how it's broken down, I'm not going to disagree.

Once again, I just don't know what it is you're actually replying to here...

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

not so much of that in islamic countries,

So
What?

What part of "irrelevant" do you ignore?

Let me help you:

nicht relevant
pas pertinent
non pertinenti

[champu 1]

What's incredibly ironic about this whole voted measure, is that the underlying concern is one of muslims coming into the country and taking over with sharia, etc. What is done in response to that? We're going to still allow them to immigrate here and keep their religious beliefs, but we're going to snipe at their traditions with a simple majority vote to ban minarets...

...thus demonstrating just how easy it would be to move into Switzerland and impose sharia with a simple majority vote.

I'm not suggesting that's necessarily the intent of muslim immigrants in Switzerland, but if that's what you're worried about, why don't you make some tweaks to your system of government to protect your constitution a little better.

[Andy9o8 0]

Now that would be ironic. Organize mass Muslim immigration to Switzerland - say, for the liberal cheese and chocolate benefits - and then let the Catholics and Muslims compete on how many rabbits they can squeeze out. The demographic victor gets to control the government.